[Xrd] Sol Badguy vs. Sin Kiske

[VR-Raiden]

 

• Use this thread to discuss the Sin Kiske matchup.
• If the matchup is giving you trouble, check to see if this post already contains info which will help you. If not, be as specific as possible when asking for help and others will be glad to give advice.
• Please focus more heavily on discussing how to play the matchup properly than who is at advantage/disadvantage.
• This post will be updated to collect useful info over time.

 

Round Start:

• f.S will counter any of his longer range attacks, it's faster than his f.S/2S/236HS.

 

 

Neutral:

• ...

 

 

Offense:

• Wake-up timings: 58f face-up, 49f face-down.
• Safejump Option-Selects: OS 2S, 5HS, 6HS hit backdash, but are not safe to DP. OS backdash dodges DP special cancel attempts (tight timing). OS TR hits both backdash and DP (tight timing).
• On regular safejump timing, you can bait reversal DP (RC)/special cancel attempt with an air backdash, from minimum height even. His DP has pitiful range.
• j.S > fuzzy j.P/j.S works.

 

 

Defense:

• Overheads: 5D (29f startup, -3 on block), 214S (32f startup, -19 on block but special cancellable with food meter).

 

 

Punishes:

• Dust: 5K on block at point blank.
• Dead Angle Attack: dash 5K/c.S on block. Can be profiled with 2D, can be dodged at point blank with c.S, punish whiff with c.S. 6P and 5HS will avoid it and hit his recovery.
• DP (623S): CH 6HS on whiff, or not cancelled on block.

 

 

Combo Notes:

• WT, delay j.S > j.K > j.D |> Fafnir, BB, dash 6P > (delay) 5HS/2HS (JC) > j.D > Kudakero |> 6P > BR. Combo is burst safe through the Fafnir.

 

[VR-Raiden]

Offense:

Sin has slow face-up wake-up timing (58f, same as Chipp), keep that in mind for oki.

Sin's frame 1 invulnerable reversals (other than burst) are his DP (Hawk Baker, 623S) and backdash.

On meaty safejump oki, option-select backdash will dodge his DP, preventing him from cancelling it on block. If he chose to reversal backdash however, you will just return to neutral. Option-select TR will hit both reversal DP and backdash anywhere on screen, if you are in a position to be fine with using the meter for the punish.

Punishes:

After normal blocking his DP there's a gap to any special he can cancel to, even on normal block.

Within range HSVV will punish no cancels and almost all special cancels, including eat (Still Growing, 214HS) YRC. Leap (214P/K) is the exception, he has time to air FD it.

Immediate air throw against either Leap looks guaranteed, but if you jump immediately after blocking DP, you run the risk of other stuff hitting you.

So if you block it, there seems to be a little bit of a guessing game if you want to go for a punish.

Ideally you want his DP to whiff. If you manage to do that by backdashing or otherwise you have all day to get a CH punish. Even CH 6HS can work.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

Round start 5S bodies Sin's pokes, or his own 5S at least. Don't think this matchup is a challenge, at least for now.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

For on block DP, I'm pretty sure you can just airthrow Leap on reaction. At least, I had no trouble with it in that respect.

 

You actually have a ton of viable options, VV is just the best because it beats the most things. You have time to BS against Elk Hunt or Beak Driver, though this can potentially create another guessing game. Eat YRC is actually very unsafe, you can sweep it or 5K it for free. You can also backdash against Beak Driver and Elk Hunt. Bull Bash will beat BS and backdash, but you can just mash him out of that move for free.

tl;dr is VV if you can (tight window), but you have other options that feel a little safer. Also, I couldn't get OS backdash to work on safe jump with Sol, any tips?

[VR-Raiden]

Also, I couldn't get OS backdash to work on safe jump with Sol, any tips?

hmmm I tried it some more, it's definitely pretty strict on timing but I get it with a very deep j.S, I'm inputting the backdash quickly right before landing. In the recording I'm inputting it right after j.S connects during the hitstop.

And on f.S, it does seem strong at round start, and strong in general in this match up. I played it a little more and eventually started waiting it out for him to get low on food, then going heavy offense and bullying him with f.S, it's really easy to tag them out of trying to eat YRC. Still learning stuff in the match up but f.S seems very useful so far.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

Another note is that 2D goes under his 5S at range, and you recover before him typically. So 2D under 5S and immediately following with your own 5S will beat pretty much anything he tries to poke with. He also really doesn't have a way to deal with 5K when he is airborne, so any time you get him in the air, mash 5K on him. The only normal he has that might hit is his j.HS, and even that is iffy.

[VR-Raiden]

Didn't know this until recently but his 236HS, the long electric stab, will blow right through GF and hit you so watch out for that. Absorbs it like Axl DP.

I also managed to CH 6P that move once but I was pretty close. I'm curious how far away that would work, will have to look at it, although probably pretty risky to try for.

The full charge version of it can't be GV under surprisingly so if he's charging it don't try that. It reaches the floor.

[Verimeloni]

Played some matches with a friend who plays Sin.

 

Sin gains tension awfully fast, he's bird super is annoying as it forces you to block or jump over it (where he can punish/push you back with air Beak Driver, managed to sj. airdash air throw him once when he tried it). GV goes under it but... yeah.

 

Riot is my bad habit and I got punished multiple times with 6P, his 6P is strong 'cause he gets a full combo of it plus 214hs at the end.

 

I think the only challenge in this MU is neutral when you are in the opposite corners of the screen, Sin can outpoke you and his slide special is + on normal block.