[Xrd] Sol Badguy vs. Slayer

[VR-Raiden]

• Use this thread to discuss the Slayer matchup.
• If the matchup is giving you trouble, check to see if this post already contains info which will help you. If not, be as specific as possible when asking for help and others will be glad to give advice.
• Please focus more heavily on discussing how to play the matchup properly than who is at advantage/disadvantage.
• This post will be updated to collect useful info over time.

Round Start:

• ...

Neutral:

• ...

Offense:

• Wake-up timing: 54f face-up, 48f face-down.
• Safejump Option-Selects: Testing...
• j.S > fuzzy j.P/j.S works.

Defense:

• Overheads: 6K (20f startup, -2 on block), 5D (24f startup, -9 on block), Dandy S > H (14f startup, +1).

Punishes:

• Dust: 5K/c.S/f.S/2D on block.
• Dead Angle Attack: dash 5K/c.S on block.
• Eternal Wings (236236HS): dash c.S upon landing. Note you have to FD it in air.

Combo Notes:

• ...

[VR-Raiden]

Defense/Punishes:

If you IB Dandy > S close enough, 5K will punish it or interrupt S > H. You can interrupt the S > H on normal block with 5K too, but it's a pretty small window and trading with that is bad.

Dandy H, the new cross up stomp thing, doesn't seem overly hard to deal with. If you react you can 5K as he's coming down after switching sides. Can also throw right when he lands before the stomp. Alternatively you can mash 4K+HS to get FD on non-Dandy H, and 5K if he does it. I think 421S+HS should work too to get SVV or low FD. I dunno if OS against it is entirely necessary though and those have drawbacks.

Speaking of 4K+HS it's good in general if they try a lot of dash crossups stuff.

If you block Dandy > K and they don't RC I think immediate air hit CH 2D > BB is probably best meterless punish.

You can also IB the first hit of Dandy > K then backdash the 2nd hit to prevent RC of the 2nd hit.

[VR-Raiden]

2S is very strong in neutral, more than before now that his 2HS range sucks. If he forward dashes through it you recover in time to throw him. It easily stops Dandy Step stuff or typically recovers in time to block if he managed to dodge it. It can stop Mappas too. He can beat it with well timed Mappa or 5K, but it seems like his 5K can't outrange it, need to double check that or any other ways he might have of dealing with it. I don't think his 6HS is a problem here either.

GF is useful as always in neutral and pressure, since he's mostly mobile on ground. His j.HS doesn't bounce on CH anymore either so even if he punished one with that you aren't hurting as bad. He can forward dash through but if you YRC'd it's easy to punish.

Safejump oki gets complicated with his numerous BDC/Dandy wake-up options. It's still good but you need some fancy OS to keep him pinned well. I have been looking at a bunch but need to iron them out more before posting. GF oki is good since it can shut down pretty much everything.

If you get cornered, for the love of Sol be careful trying to poke your way out. His normals can dominate here. Safest bet is FD and look for chances to superjump or otherwise out.

[VR-Raiden]

IB K Mappa is a 5K or c.S punish within range, works from pretty far. WT works too but you have to be super deep.

2D can low-profile and counter Mappas.

Also funny thing you can throw Dandy S>HS on its first active frame.

[Destin]

That's intentional.  It forces slayer to either get the high low mixup, or the throw punish but not both.

[VR-Raiden]

So now that he actually can use 2HS at neutral, max range 2S can't be abused quite as much. We can go back to using CH 5HS to counter it. Interestingly enough he is in crouch state when this happens which means BB combos. From round start, if he did 2HS and you did 5HS:

 

crouch hit CH 5HS > BB > Fafnir > BB > GF > 6P > GF > j.D > Kudakero > 6P > 6HS > HSVV = 274

 

His 2HS is supposed to be -9 now, it seems that way because if he does it too close you get a f.S punish on block regardless of IB.

[LockedAndClush]

I got pretty blown up by a few Slayer players yesterday (guess I must have run into the Slayer Army assembly or something) on a bad day, so I'm looking for a little help.

1. f.S seems very dangerous in this matchup. If they read it they can just 6P right through it. P Dandy followups also seem problematic here. How do I establish pressure here? The best idea seems to just fish for these and similar things with dash brake and throw a 2K or 2D out every once in a while. 2S used to be good, but as VR Raiden pointed out in a post above, Slayer's 2HS makes it much harder to use.

2. What's the safe way to get out of Dandy S>HS/2K mixup? Obviously just shoving a HSVV in their face beats both options, but they can just bait it, so it's not that great of an idea. Is there a more universal escape that would cover all options (without IB Dandy S)? Would backdash work here (assuming they don't do something like Mappa to punish it)?

3. I have a hard time air-to-airing with him. It seems that every time he sees me pressing a button he can just go for j.S or Footloose Journey and that's it, I can do nothing except maybe hope that I recover in time to block. Should I just stick to j.HS to stay safe and then act accordingly?

[D.R.F.]

1. The new risk/reward that slayer has off his shit makes restarting pressure a lot scarier come 1.1, since he is much more dangerous on offense and losing initiative hurts you more. However a lot of things still apply here as in 1.0. You can gf to abuse their mash and get a nice combo (although I have heard DOT at certain ranges beats this, need verification. EW I know does too.) running 5K works when they are abusing backdash, as it will still catch them with their pants down, allowing you to get a knockdown. Restarting pressure with f.S stuff just sounds scary, with dandy step there to ruin our day. To this I'd just say keep your blockstrings short as usual, and wait for them to fuck up (oh yea lol fafnir is good too to chase backdashes)

2. (These things need to be tested btw, need verification. Especially since slayers can alter the timing of under pressure> It's late.) Under pressure (S followup) is 0 on normal block, so there is some risk attached with trying to get out. It's Late (S> H followup) has 6 active frames and Sol has a backdash with 8 invul frames. So you can time it correctly and punish him in his recovery (assuming he didn't yrc to save his from what probably was a CH 2D.) Other things is FD jump, although 2K might catch that. If they are close enough you can 5K or 6K+Hs (OS) in case they wanted to max delay it's late or do 2K mix up (3 frames normals bby.) Its

A lot of reading the situation and what they are trying to do.

3. Are you spacing 5K wrong? I'm unsure whether or not it will beat footloose but 5K (2) should at least trade with slayer j.S. Trying to traditionally AA j.Hs is sad times more often than not, but hey at least it's not AC lol. 6P can work when spaced correctly, and of course we have VV :D.

Granted I'd rather try these things out for myself than proclaim them as the bible, these are just options and scenarios I thought of

[CWheezy]

I think slayer actually can't beat sol's jump jab with any of his air to air moves?

 

Maybe only footloose journey can but it is prett hard to reaction anti air with that

[Orrax]

I got pretty blown up by a few Slayer players yesterday (guess I must have run into the Slayer Army assembly or something) on a bad day, so I'm looking for a little help.

1. f.S seems very dangerous in this matchup. If they read it they can just 6P right through it. P Dandy followups also seem problematic here. How do I establish pressure here? The best idea seems to just fish for these and similar things with dash brake and throw a 2K or 2D out every once in a while. 2S used to be good, but as VR Raiden pointed out in a post above, Slayer's 2HS makes it much harder to use.

2. What's the safe way to get out of Dandy S>HS/2K mixup? Obviously just shoving a HSVV in their face beats both options, but they can just bait it, so it's not that great of an idea. Is there a more universal escape that would cover all options (without IB Dandy S)? Would backdash work here (assuming they don't do something like Mappa to punish it)?

3. I have a hard time air-to-airing with him. It seems that every time he sees me pressing a button he can just go for j.S or Footloose Journey and that's it, I can do nothing except maybe hope that I recover in time to block. Should I just stick to j.HS to stay safe and then act accordingly?

1. f.S is dangerous. I prefer to use moves that recover fast enough to block P Dandy Step. So, 2P, 2K, 5P, and 2S are all useful here. Also, 2S is still good, but don't abuse it. You can beat Slayer's 2H with Sol's 5H.

 

2. IB > 5K if he's close enough (and he usually should be, and you don't even need to IB if your timing is good). Back dash is a decent option as well.

 

3. I like to use j.P or sj.P. That said, constantly trying to beat Slayer's normals with Sol's is a risky business.