Elphelt vs Venom

[Magaki]

Discuss the matchup here.

Summary

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Gameplan

Neutral game:
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Offense:
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Defense:
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Character Specifics

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[BlackJustin13]

I'm quite surprised that no one has put anything in this thread yet, considering that this is probably one of Elphelt's worst matchups. At the start of thematch, your only options are to either backdash or pray you press 2S before he does. Getting in on him is kind of a pain too since every jump in I do gets thrown or destroyed by his 6P, though I need to start implementing the air grenade yrc mixup and trying to approch him on ground definitely requires patience with his balls and long range pokes. Don't even get me started on his corner pressure where ot seems like he can do whatever he wants withe QV and H Stinger Aim to easily reset while sit there, praying you get enough meter to Dead Angle.

[Hotashi]

I find this matchup super difficult to play properly, as Venom's pressure eats all of Elphelts big normals alive because of the poolballs.

 

You really have to run down a Stinger he does without YRCing it by IADing or getting a 2H, or approach slowly with Pineberry. 

 

The most difficult part in neutral is getting out the Pineberry without being hit with a fullscreen blockstring of Stingers and set poolballs.
A low throw will always impact a stinger as it bounces, and you always get meter from pulling a pineberry. 

 

It's extremely important just not to get hit by any random poolballs in neutral, since you need as much health as possible to not die should you be cornered. 

 

If you find yourself cornered, with him cranking your guard bar, opt to continue blocking. His only overhead is 5D, and if he tick grabs you, your Guard Meter is reduced to Non-Critical levels. 

 

Consider the use of 5H: Venom is in counterhit during his Ball Set and Stinger. You can fish for trades (which kills his momentum since you both recover at the same time), or look for him to set a ball in neutral with you at midscreen, or during a blockstring. 

If you utilize the rifle at full screen, you can shoot him and get a counter hit, at the cost of trading with a pool ball. Since the rifle counterhit gives Elphelt the McDonalds Arches of untech time, you may find it worth it. 

 

Venom and Elphelt both sort of fall over and die extremely quickly once they get pressured by each other, so if you get one corner carry, then you should look to keep him there as long as possible. His only reversals are to Burst or Dead Angle. 

 

Practice blitzing meaty poolball setups, since venom can't do anything about avoiding getting Blitzed on his midscreen setups, unlike maybe Millia. 

[Magaki]

Ehhh, I don't think it's that bad at all. It's in Elphelt's favour for plenty of reasons in my opinion. A few things I would like to point out however:

-You both struggle against Venom once he got balls and use them in neutral... But everyone does. And summoning them isn't free and require some commitment. Elphelt is great at rushing characters down. She certainly isn't Chipp or Millia for sure but she's still very good at doing that.
The whole point of this matchup is to simply use the most basic law in fighters: RTSD aka Rush That Shit Down.

Yeah, he got pokes and AAs like everyone. But his abare isn't that great at all. He also doesn't have great counter pokes like 2S and his j236S/H isn't as good as Elphelt's j214K to beat AA. Whatever he wants to go for to make you unable to get in with no balls, you can blow that up.

-QV and H Stinger are NOT ways to reset pressure at all. QV might seem like it because its attack level is 0 despite not looking like one at all so instead of usually waiting a bit for the blockstun to end for unsafe moves, you need to mash as fast as possible. This is definetely reactable unless you're playing online I guess.
H Stinger is -9 despite looking + like a sonic boom but it's definetely not. On the other hand, Venom can use a lot of normals to be pushed quite far then do S Stinger YRC to reset pressure but obviously, you won't be in blockstun at all when it will happen so you can just jump away when you notice he's getting quite far.

What he will often use to reset pressure meterless is either Carcass raid ([2]8S) or tk Mad Struggle (tkj236S which is also his main overhead outside of okizeme situation. Not 5D.) but both need to be done quite close to make sure the opponent won't escape easily. In Carcass raid's case, a simple fuzzy jump will take care of it and he needs cS to make sure you won't easily mash out. Mad struggle would be very hard to react to if it could hit when immediately TK'ed but it's not and you need to delay it to get at least one hit making it reactable. Unless you play online that is.
Either way, it's + on block but got a rather important pushback. If done very close, you can IB and throw him but FDing and pushing him quite far is also a good option and allows to go back to neutral.

Again, don't forget he needs to be quite close to get that knockdown so using FD and fuzzy jumps are definetely great options to deal with his pressure.

-Okizeme-wise, if he goes for basic jump jK>ball hit>jS/empty 2K/airdash jS>jH, there is not much you can do here as it is a legit 50/50.
A few advices though:
Don't forget that he can do microdash jump jK to do crossup so memorize the trajectory he takes when he does the microdash to figure out whether he will crossup or not. This will allow you to at least remove a layer of his okizeme mixups.

If you notice the Venom player only goes for empty 2K or airdash jS>jH like a lot of Venom do, you can fuzzy guard the mixup with 1>4.
Of course, a Venom aware of this trick will use jS more but this will allow you otherwise to have a solid and safe answer against his okizeme.

Look closely at the ball he summons to prepare his okizeme. If the ball is going behind you and you notice the teleport (Do NOT wait for him to reappear to react. You can't. You have to react WHEN he's teleporting on the ground), make sure to block accordingly. The ball used to crossup is generally the H ball that got a very obvious trajectory once set. He will also always teleport where the last set ball is making it much easier than it looks like to deal with it.

Make sure to test in training everything I mentionned in order to deal accordingly to the situations above.

Otherwise, on the Elphelt side, things are much more simple:

-Forget about pineberry in that matchup. It requires after all giving some momentum to trigger a grenade then throwing it. Something he can use to set a ball. Don't forget that in 1.1, Elphelt's grenade disappear on hit while Venom doesn't. Just rushing him should be enough. Check the last videos in the video thread to see what the JP Elphelt use.

-Sniper is okay in that matchup until he gets a ball out. If you get a CH, you will be able to rush in but that's only if you manage to hit CH. Considering that only a few move are CH until end of recovery, that's a big gamble.

-The fact that he got 4f jump startup instead of 3f is actually quite important. Plenty of stuff like SG-HxN during corner pressure is considered bad because the opponent can fuzzy jump as soon as he notices one SG-H and there is nothing you can do about that (SG-H>46H>SG-H/P got a 4f gap). 4f jump startup however means that if he attempts to fuzzy jump during SG-H spam, he will get hit. Therefore mixing in SG-H and SG-S is very annoying for him and even if he decides to be patient, SG-H's chip damage does stack up quite fast.
Can also vary even more by getting out of shotgun stance and keep pressuring in normal stance or get a berry then do after a while backdash>toss. Up to you really;

Therefore, shotgun is much stronger in pressure in that matchup than usual so going for it is strongly advised.

It can also be used in neutral for a bunch of reasons.
SG-K obviously can be used to disregard his zoning and footsies which is quite annoying to deal with (Remember, none of his normals are whiff cancelable unlike plenty of characters so he needs to take some risks against SG-K. Similarly, throwing out some 2Hs to go below stinger happy Venom can drive them nuts too.).
SG-H is a projectile too and will cancel EVERY ball it will touch (if they are activated by one of his normals or stinger of course). SG-H YRC to cancel his balls and get in is a great option for instance. It's better to not reload though and get in normal stance.
SG-S does trade quite often and are always in your favour thanks to its huge stagger.

Finally, concerning Venom, unblockable setups and berry relaunches are quite annoying due to his obnoxious hurtbox. Don't forget to go for jK>jH for Alioune's setups and to shoot with rifle much faster than usual due to the fact that he wakes up the fastest.