[CT] Haku-men Videos & Discussion

[faultydefense]

They hover around 2.2k, as I said already.

a j.C / 5C / j.2C (CH) / 2C / j.B > 5B / 6A / 6B (CH) can all go into a full combo with 2 stars, most doing over 3k, some bigger than that if you're anywhere near a corner, and if you only use two stars you're generating probably at least a star during the combo.

[ryokoalways]

here is the thing. How are you going to get any of those hits to land when you have 2 magatamas. You have no offense when you only have 2 magatamas. Edit: allow me to also address the point regarding the corner. At this early in the fight, when you only have 2 magatamas, you have no way of pushing your opponent into the corner, so that's also out the window.

[SimpleKiss]

here is the thing. How are you going to get any of those hits to land when you have 2 magatamas. You have no offense when you only have 2 magatamas.

The same way you'd get them to land if you have 8? You don't need stars to dash in against a Nyu when you find an opening in her D-spam, or getting in on arakune who leaves an opening in his game after making a mistake.

EDIT: maybe sometimes you do, but it depends on the situation really.

[ryokoalways]

A game plan where you wait till they make a mistake is not a game plan. The reason it's more viable when you have more magatamas is because 1. You are significantly more terrifying because if you hit them they are in for a world of hurt. 2. You have extra magatama that can be used for your offense to crack their defense.

[faultydefense]

A game plan where you wait till they make a mistake is not a game plan. The reason it's more viable when you have more magatamas is because

1. You are significantly more terrifying because if you hit them they are in for a world of hurt.

2. You have extra magatama that can be used for your offense to crack their defense.

you can beat one of their moves, i.e. anti-air, capitalize on spacing mistakes, 6B a low. I mean, how many times have you ever landed a counterhit? Probably at least once a match.

[ryokoalways]

Yes, and those combos do dmg that averages to about 2.2k, as I stated. Your counter moves (6a, 6b, 3c, etc) only nets that much.

[Luisthepanda]

Sure that's a lot of set-up. and I'm not saying play like this against arakune. I'm just saying that I feel this is a situation where Mugen could be practical, and I also think it's a 100% plausible one, especially against someone like arakune (or Nyu for that matter).

A lot of set up seems to imply that mugen, like everyone else has been saying, is really unpractical.

[SimpleKiss]

A game plan where you wait till they make a mistake is not a game plan. The reason it's more viable when you have more magatamas is because

1. You are significantly more terrifying because if you hit them they are in for a world of hurt.

2. You have extra magatama that can be used for your offense to crack their defense.

Because the example I gave was in regards to the top three. Against Nu and Arakune... You *have* to play defensively and look for openings... that's how you beat them (and with a shitload of luck too.)

I'm sure this video is on this thread on the first page, but the perfect example I'm talking about: Go look for 0's video of him against that Nu. it's on youtube. He gets in on her at 30seconds into the video. Deals 40% damage with 2 magatama. yes, he had more than 2 stars, but he didn't use them to get in.

[ryokoalways]

You know nu's hp bar is significantly less dense at the beginning and far more dense at the end, right? Edit: I forgot to address the other point, my apologies. Regarding nu/arakune, I will only comment on nu because I have a fair amount of experience in that match up. I cannot beat a good arakune convincingly at this point. Against nu, you will spend the first part of the match trying to figure out your opponents tendencies. Mainly, does he like to bait your jump with 6d, does he like to play reflexively to what you are doing, does he like to go offensive and maybe even close ranged with c moves. Guess what, that takes about 10 seconds out of the match, and during that time, you can already get yourself to 3 magatama with 1-2 IB. So your example only matters for the first 10 seconds, and I don't believe any hakumen would want to go ape-shit during that time frame. Once you get more magatamas, then the game changes. You can not only burn them for damage, you can burn them to get yourself better position. In this case, burn magatamas to get nu into the corner, with enough left over to break out your mixup game. Again, our discussion is in the beginning of a round, and my point is, rather than thinking "I can get good damage with 2 magatams", you should be thinking "I need to get to 3 magatamas asap so the opponent will actually be scared when I approach him".

[faultydefense]

2C (CH) j.C > 5C > 236A > 236A > 2C into corner loop as you've gone across half the screen at this point, or if you're within a third of the stage from the corner you don't have to waste time/damage on the 236a's. Which is not a rare thing at all, especially against say a nu who's gonna backdash once or twice at the beginning of a round, or hell any melee character thats going to be a little iffy about getting in on hakumen. Anything into a corner loop is gonna do well over 2.2k. Not to mention just pushing someone into the corner with haku-men is enough to get some characters/players to burst. i'm just sayin...hakumen is a mentally scary thing to deal with sometimes... and if by some chance (to you seems like a miracle?) if you catch someone in a corner, 214B = 4k+

[SimpleKiss]

You know nu's hp bar is significantly less dense at the beginning and far more dense at the end, right?

I'm aware, but it seems to be pretty good damage to me, regardless.

And yes, True, Mugen overall is impractical... I was just saying I can see certain plausible situations that can actually happen in a real match where mugen would be a legit option.

[ryokoalways]

2C (CH) j.C > 5C > 236A > 236A > 2C into corner loop as you've gone across half the screen at this point, or if you're within a third of the stage from the corner you don't have to waste time/damage on the 236a's. Which is not a rare thing at all, especially against say a nu who's gonna backdash once or twice at the beginning of a round, or hell any melee character thats going to be a little iffy about getting in on hakumen.

Anything into a corner loop is gonna do well over 2.2k. Not to mention just pushing someone into the corner with haku-men is enough to get some characters/players to burst.

i'm just sayin...hakumen is a mentally scary thing to deal with sometimes...

and if by some chance (to you seems like a miracle?) if you catch someone in a corner, 214B = 4k+

I understand that 2 magatamas can do damage giving the right positioning. But in the beginning of a match, unless you are sure something is coming (or have correct spacing), you would not want to throw out any c moves because that's a free punish if you miss or hell, if they block it (in which case you can burn your 1-2 magatama to turn it back to even, but then you are back to square 1). The risk reward simply isnt' there.

And I agree hakumen is mentally scary, but only when he has magatamas. You know why we get our asses rushed in the beginning of every round.

Oh and I had a fairly large edit in the previous post that has a point regarding this too, which is basically I'm trying to get to 3 magatamas asap, and will only burn magatama if my opponent stupidly gives me free damage.

[Tage*Proto]

I couldn't agree more with Ryoko on his point against Nu. The mental edge in that matchup goes to hakumen when you have 3 magatama less then 15 seconds into the round. Great post.

[SimpleKiss]

I understand that 2 magatamas can do damage giving the right positioning. But in the beginning of a match, unless you are sure something is coming (or have correct spacing), you would not want to throw out any c moves because that's a free punish if you miss or hell, if they block it (in which case you can burn your 1-2 magatama to turn it back to even, but then you are back to square 1). The risk reward simply isnt' there.

And I agree hakumen is mentally scary, but only when he has magatamas. You know why we get our asses rushed in the beginning of every round.

Oh and I had a fairly large edit in the previous post that has a point regarding this too, which is basically I'm trying to get to 3 magatamas asap, and will only burn magatama if my opponent stupidly gives me free damage.

True, but damage is damage. And if for some reason Nyu Gives you an opening where you can get a 5C-> into dustloop relatively early in the game (Which can happen), I don't see why you wouldn't do it.

You're saying "Get 3 stars ASAP." The origin of my argument was:

"You can do good damage with 2 stars."

not that "You should play hakumen to do good damage with 2 stars."

You contended that you can only do garbage damage with 2 stars, and that's untrue. Just saying.

[seventwenty1]

I couldn't agree more with Ryoko on his point against Nu. The mental edge in that matchup goes to hakumen when you have 3 magatama less then 15 seconds into the round. Great post.

and i agree with simplekiss

no one here said hakumen was at his finest with < 3 stars, no one even said they preferred it that way, they just said you can hurt and we're not gonna pass up that opportunity if given the chance to be offensive early on

[ryokoalways]

You missed my point. My stance on 2 magatamas is situational. As I stated in my earlier posts, and even reinforced by fd, I know you can get good damage with 2 magatamas given the right positioning and initiation. What I am arguing here, is that when you FIRST get 2 magatamas, you are unlikely to have any of the following: 1. The opponent at a location where you can push them into the corner. 2. The opponent giving you an optimal spacing where you can work off your zoning game. 3. The opponent letting you in and work your terribad offense. None of the above would ever happen if your opponent is competent. Again, my point isn't that 2 magatamas don't do damage. It's that with two magatamas at that stage of the round, there is no way anyone that knows how to play the game will let you create damage. Which is why, on my previous post, I emphasized that I will most definitely burn magatama to get damage, but if I do, it's not because I created it. It's going to be because my opponent made some stupid mistake (using nu as an example, if he is retarded enough to backdash at the beginning, then I immediately think that I have a chance at breaking out free damage).

[4r5]

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm7760286

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZ38bLxsBfU

nothing terribly interesting

and now for something interesting

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm8014676

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhLMsb97cvg

[Incognito]

Have to say, that first combo on Tager was indeed sexy.

[MisoSowee]

and now for something interesting

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm8014676

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhLMsb97cvg

i just replicated the first tager combo and i've gotta say it's pretty useful too. for 2 stars it does minimum 3496 (that's if you just spam 2c till you can't) you can actually do a falling c to 5c like in the vid but i couldn't do it. trick to doing this is tecking fast and doing hotaru super fast, and then remember to jump cancel, grab a sandwich, and 2c forevaaa (it's like 8 hits or something ridiculous, the last hit did 115 cuz of proration!) im gonna try to do it in a match now.... lawl.

[ryokoalways]

Found two usable things in this vid. I like it. Thanks.

[Tage*Proto]

Man, so many awesome combos...definitely want to try the one done on bang, ragna, and the 6d done on rachel.

[aeonphreak]

and now for something interesting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhLMsb97cvg

question pertaining to the 3rd combo performed on Noel(starts at 0:27). In relation to magatama use for damage obtained, seems quite practical which is why i was working heavily on it. Anyway, here's my question. I would notate it as:

throw>214B(1)>623A>A>j.2C, ad.2C, f.C, 5C, 236A, 6C=4819

I keep dropping it at f.C, 5C. It's so weird, I feel i wait as long as possible to do falling C, and i can never connect 5C after since CPU always techs. Of course if I wait too long, CPU techs before i can get the falling C out. If i didn't view the vid, i would've thought anything after f.C was impossible.....any advice?

[faultydefense]

you have to believe in yourself

[aeonphreak]

i already do. i'm speaking specifically regarding timing hits 5-7 and have varied timing on each individual hit to try and get a better result. question is whether hits 5-7 are to be delayed as much as possible or not. so whoever can perform this combo, advice on how to link hits 5-7 together in order to successfully get an untechable 8th hit would be appreciated. edit-ok, just performed it successfully, but that falling C, 5C timing is very tight. I found it easiest to delay hits 5-7 as long as possible. It seems like if you mess up on hit 5 and do the initial j.2C to early, it jacks your entire chance to pull off falling C, 5C

[Atuin]

you have to believe in yourself

:yaaay: new sig