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Kazuki Slice

[Xrd] Ky Kiske vs. Leo Whitefang

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  • Use this thread to discuss the Leo Whitefang matchup.
  • If the matchup is giving you trouble, check to see if this post already contains info which will help you. If not, be as specific as possible when asking for help and others will be glad to give advice.
  • Please focus more heavily on discussing how to play the matchup properly than who is at advantage/disadvantage.
  • This post will be updated to collect useful info over time.

 

'Round Start:
  • ...

 

'Neutral:
  • ...

 

'Offense:
  • ...

 

'Defense:
  • ...

 

'Punishes:
  • ...

 

'Combo Notes:
  • ...

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Sytha/eh-sama/anyone, how do you guys deal with this matchup. I'm not sure of how my screen positioning should be against him. And dealing with them rekkas once he's in is tough for me, even wen IB'd.

 

Thanks.

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I back off and spam projectile / grinders. Ciel powered stun edge will win against his slow projectile that eats all your other projectiles and land you a knockdown on counterhit. He also cannot parry this.  Just don't do this for too long; The point of this is to get the Leo anxious to IAD in where most of your anti airs will blow him up. If he respects your zoning you can start poking with f.S / 2.S or get into close range with rising j.K whiff into j.S. When you are in close range aim to go for either frame advantage or ending your blockstrings with alot of spacing (5HS or max range 6HS)  so that he has to work to get back in or start his own offense.

 

Once you pick up momentum or have him in the corner you should enforce the best offense you have on him. If you land a knockdown into ciel here this is big for you and you can possibly end the game right then and there if the conditions are right and you make the correct decisions. The one thing that absolutely must not happen in this MU is Leo making you block any kind of poke. Once that happens its his turn and his turn is gonna last really long if you don't know the holes in his offense(like me) and aren't willing to take risks or spend resources to get out.

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Do people really struggle with this matchup? All I do is zone him with stun edges through grinders until I get a knock down, or wait for him to jump/IAD and AA him. When he gets in and starts doing pressure is where it starts to get tricky. Don't panic, keep an eye out for his pretty fast overheads and his parry. You need to learn where the holes in his pressure are. You can also grab his run/dash through move fairly easy (especially if he uses carelessly). I never have too much trouble with this MU, although I haven't fought any extremely good Leo players.

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It may be because of netplay. I studied the gaps in his rekkas and can predict/block them fine but every time I try to grab him after the second rekka I get my backsides handed on me. Sometime's I can't even block the rekka because reasons and the opposing leo procceeds to deal great portions of damage for totally free. It's really frustrating. Also, split ciel and j.d are both crucial in this matchup while playing keepaway, but if you don't set up the bottom ciel or do it fast enough, chances are that the leo will use his HS projectile leaving you no room to do anything but  jump-block, at least online.

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You can IAD over his HS projectile if you don't want to get pinned down. I sometimes will IAD over it and use j.HS to catch him running in after it. I wouldn't recommend doing it a lot because they could bait it and AA you. j.HS can beat AA's if you space it right though.

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Depending on the range for the fireball your better off just doing 236D>236S to nullify it completely or if your not at a far enough range for that to be a good answer just f.S him out of the billion frames of start up that the fireball has.

 

To throw him out of the 2nd part of Rekka you have to IB the 1st part of Rekka. IBing in general makes a lot of his pressure strings not safe or lead to your offense. It's just one of those match ups that you have to lab the defensive techniques on. Kinda sucks but it's what you have to do vs. Leo is basically learn Leo, learn exactly how you blow up his pressure and then the match up gets better. 5H, any part of the Rekka chain are what you want to practice IBing, 6H, 2nd and 3rd hit of Rekka are the stuff your looking to actively punish.

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That applies to a lot of matches, especially new characters or characters that play somewhat differently than their old selves. I occasionally play against Phil Shin, a Millia player from Nashville, and he's picking up Elph and Chipp because he had trouble vs. them at Final Round.

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This is not that good of a match up for Ky. Once Leo starts to make you block say good bye to at least 60% or more of your health. Sometimes its even the round. You know how easy it is for Leo to make you block just one poke? Very easy. You have to excel at spacing and 5C/Stun edge to lame him out, oh but wait, he has a projectile that eats up yours? So free if he makes you jump and thats not what ky wants. Oh sure, there is the split ciel/big stun edge but that takes way too long to come out and once again the point is to never let leo make you block a single thing.

As for making the least amount of damage possible when leo gets in? Leo definitely top 3 toughest characters to block its close to impossible. Leo's pressure however does lose to alot of correctly timed IB-vapor thrusts and HOPEfully the Leo isn't trying to cross up too quickly during the string. Sometimes mash throw works as well, it can option select into stand H which somtimes stagger counters Leo. it comes out pretty quickly. 

Also, knockdown after an air combo that leo does? terrible situation for Ky. Two options: DP or bait HIM into baiting you with his counter shield, and sometimes he'll even choose to hit buttons instead. This isn't even a 50/50 situation, but rather a 2/3 chance that Leo gets another touch. 

 

bad match up, pretty much, both characters want to rush down each other, but Leo gets the chance so much more than ky does. 

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Not really. This match up actually sucks for Leo, like 6-4 in Ky's favor. Ky can keep him out with his pokes such as f.s and a DC S Stun Edge goes right through his projectile. You don't need to use Charged Stun Edge to beat it. About Leo's pressure, it's all about knowing where to mash, IB, or FD. IBing is the best thing here. For instance, during his rekkas, IB the first one allows you to grab the second one, I believe you can even blitz it as well. 

Also 2HS is really good in this matchup. It beats all of Leo's air moves clean or trades, forcing him back and having to work to get in, which is what Ky wants.

Just play the neutral game well, know when to IB so you can mash or use a grab to get out.

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Yeah, this matchup has to be in Ky's favor. Ky doesn't have to do much of anything; it's up to Leo to start things from neutral but Ky has everything he needs to counterpunch Leo on reaction, and a lot of Leo's stuff that works on other characters fails to IB -> SVT CH into combo on the defensive end. Some of Leo's pokes like 6H lose outright to RC stun dipper on reaction, even out of block stun, as shown in the Rion/Zidane EVO match.

Online is different story though. Leo is up there with Sol and Bedman as being one of the best characters in the game in 4f+ lag.

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you can argue ky vs leo in 1.0 was basically 7-3, in 1.1 its still at the very least 6.5-3.5 

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Nah, it can't be that bad for Leo. Leo always has instant chances if he can make you block something. Most likely 6-4 in Ky's favor.

7-3 would be like domination that's so hard that the other side only has one shot at winning per round, and automatically loses if that chance goes away. Ky is never that well off in any matchup.

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