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Kazuki Slice

[Xrd] Ky Kiske vs. May

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  • Use this thread to discuss the May matchup.
  • If the matchup is giving you trouble, check to see if this post already contains info which will help you. If not, be as specific as possible when asking for help and others will be glad to give advice.
  • Please focus more heavily on discussing how to play the matchup properly than who is at advantage/disadvantage.
  • This post will be updated to collect useful info over time.

 

'Round Start:
  • ...

 

'Neutral:
  • ...

 

'Offense:
  • ...

 

'Defense:
  • ...

 

'Punishes:
  • ...

 

'Combo Notes:
  • ...

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Ky v. May

At one point this was my most common matchup and I must have played it hundreds of times already. This is where I disagree with the rest of the forum which thinks it's 6-4+ in Ky's favor. I think it's either even or 5.5-4.5 in favor of May, simply because May's life lead does not really matter and Ky is compelled to play a very active game throughout the entire round. Ky will hit out May a lot from the ground and refute maybe 60-70% of May's attempts, but May can also initiate an offense from pretty much anything and guessing wrong once leads to damage or even instant loss. And per my rule of Ky matchups, if Ky is compelled to do things in a match and cannot just simply sit back and choose to do nothing then Ky is at a disadvantage, though I can believe that the matchup is actually even.

Strategy-wise, it's a pretty typical Ky matchup in that Ky is trying to hold back the tide versus the tide breaking through. This matchup also requires a lot of theoretical knowledge on Ky's part to memorize what pokes to use against what and when, kinda like learning Dhalsim in alpha 3 to correctly anti-air and play against every other character.

Neutral

This is probably the hardest part of the matchup. Luckily Ky has the advantage on the ground with 5S, 2S -> 5HS, 6P and ground SE. Ky is looking to deny May from initiating any offense by staying on the ground and using his superior pokes to keep May honest. Jump backward kicks keep May from airdashing in.

May will be looking for an opening to either 6P, dolphin, FB dolphin, 3K or IAD S, HS. The IAD S -> HS is very dangerous especially if you use the ground SE a little too much, since you will pretty much lose 40% life from the ensuing combo. FB dolphin also allows May a way in on block and it is more or less impossible to stop, so you have to keep an eye as to when she can do it and avoid blocking the FB dolphin.

Ky can seal out all of May's air attempts if he can react to them, but it is very specific as to when you need to 6P versus VT versus jump backward k/s, or block or other anti-air. This requires a lot of practice, and sometimes you will do it wrong and get counterhit into the air for 60% life. That being said, for this matchup if you are not sure what is going on then default to block because getting hit is just so bad against May.

Also keep a mental tally as to how many counterhits you have taken in the match. If you take more than one counter hit whale/jump 2HS, or one counter hit 6P then you may get dizzy on the next counterhit or even overhead kiss so you have to concentrate on running away and avoid getting hit for several game seconds to reset the stun counter.

Offense

May doesn't really have good defensive tools so Ky can put May into standard Ky katame. However, some special care needs to be given to the zero frame whale if May is in the corner, because you can die from it from full life if it counterhits and May has tension left over. It's better to let her go and play the neutral than risk getting hit by something stupid. There's also a lot of May specific combos that one should learn as May is very floaty.

Defense

Once May has an in, she is trying to find a way to send you into the air or go for a 6P/overhead kiss mixup. The problem is that you will have to keep defense rather honest and look for a safe way out. However, there are some hard refutations that should be memorized:
 

  • Strings into 5D are not legitimate and you should practice punishing them on reaction with a run/walk up 6P or 2D into combo.
  • Any non-FRCed blocked dolphin is punishable by 2D into HS SE or sacred edge, depending on the distance.
  • Air dolphin can be refuted by SVT, and can be used as a hard call out against a whiff air dolphin -> overhead kiss attempt.
  • Strings into charge 6P can be refuted by stutter step HS VT, 6P or RT if you are sharp enough to react to it, otherwise just block.
  • Jump knees can also be refuted by SVT, which can counterhit into an air combo.
  •  

I have no idea how she works in xrd, so YRC applications with regards to her. So I'm not sure where and how the last section applies still.

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May player here, my brother plays Ky decently and I dabble in him too. In Xrd this matchup is almost certainly Ky's favor IMO. Not unwinnable, but still pretty bad for May (I agree with the 6-4 Ky number people throw around). Most of you probably figured that out by now, though.

The tl;dr to this matchup is just watch Rozu here and do what he does:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTbeAV94MW0

In this game, Ky has a great reach advantage over May's ground game at pretty much every range. There's also no longer a gigantic gap between his damage/stun output and hers; May needs to land a LOT more hits now to kill/stun people so the damage output is very even between the two characters. Her newfound ability to put beach balls on the screen and play a semi-zoning style with them doesn't work all that well against Ky because between regular Stun Edge and Grinder Stun Edge, Ky has a very easy time punishing the startup of summons on reaction. If May doesn't have meter to YRC, summoning at neutral vs Ky is pretty damn dangerous. Ky also doesn't have to put himself out there a lot to kill beach balls; you can kinda kill them incidentally using Stun Edge YRC and then be free to anti-air or otherwise react to whatever May was doing behind the beach ball. This matchup is basically just about keeping her out, which is easier than ever against Xrd May.

Blanka ball dolphins are safer on block in this game, but Ky's still one of the few characters who can consistently punish them without using a super. Basic punish on an IB'ed Blanka ball is Stun Dipper. I think it's the only move Ky will have that will actually REACH May when she bounces back from Blanka Ball.

You can basically jump back jH to zone May for free in this matchup. Anti-airing it with her 6P takes some eagle-eyed timing, and obviously you can vary the timing if you think May's catching on. But if you're jumping back vs May, you basically hold all the cards; May has shit for normals that have the range to reach jH's hurtbox without getting her hurtbox tagged herself, both ground and air. jD is a good space-waster against her too, especially if you have meter to Stun Edge YRC and just completely lock her out for a second or two.

She can punish max-range blocked Greed Sever with 3K, but it's not gonna hurt unless she has meter to RC. The knockdown sucks and so does the oki afterwards since the slide recovery is so long. Max range Stun Dipper (2nd hit) can be punished the same way.

If you're getting swept out of Stun Edges by her 3K, definitely consider baiting it because the rewards are immense. The move's -27(!) on block and she's in CH state all through recovery for God knows what reason. So if you bait a slide, blow her up.

Stun Edge YRC is basically God in this matchup. If you think May's gonna hit a button or try and go over your ground poke in the air, just put a Stun Edge YRC out there and react however with leisure, whether to anti-air or confirm a combo. Stun Edge YRC restricts the HELL out of May's options at neutral. You don't need a lot of meter to wreak havoc on May so just go nuts on Stun Edge YRC, there's basically no way you'll get called out for it.

If you diversify your blockstrings and oki appropriately, you have very little to fear from Blitz Shield. May will want to use it, but the consequences for guessing wrong on a Blitz attempt are way worse for her than for Ky. If she gets one off and has meter, it'll probably hurt if you don't guess your way out, but there's no reason to be scared. Just be patient on wakeup and mind her setplay, you are basically one counterpoke > Stun Dipper > oki away from running it back even if May tears your face off with an Ensenga combo.

She has an easy safe jump from S Blanka ball on Vapor Thrust (Blanka ball, dash jump jS), so if you've never seen this matchup before, be wary of this. Don't feed May bad Vapor Thrusts, because May will be looking for them (if the May player's not a dumbass).

Her best reversal super is the spinny arms one, it's -13 on block but the spacing can be kinda weird to punish sometimes, so grind it out. 

The spinning anchor super is not invulnerable but can be made safe on block by throwing the orca. You can FD to push her back farther and make her whiff, but it's not that hard to realize when the pushback is getting too intense and just pinch it off with the orca to stay safe.

The whale is still 9+0 but you're probably not gonna get hit by it unless you're being REALLY predictable on offense. I admit I haven't really TRIED the whale much in this matchup, but IMO I'd rather save that 50% for RC, Dead Angle, Blitz or a couple summon YRC's rather than roll the dice on a whale for meh returns. (Unless Ky is already caught in a corner Dust combo...on defense the whale's not nearly as scary as it used to be. You have pretty much nothing to really respect on May's wakeup unless they can Blitz Shield well.)

I hate playing this matchup as May. I play it anyway because I believe in the heart of the cards 6P, but I think it's one of her worst simply because there's bajillions of Ky players out there. And I probably just helped a couple of them get better at this matchup. Sometimes my decisions are highly questionable.

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I agree that this matchup swung pretty hard into Ky's favor. Dizzy into IK gambles and counterhit shenanigans aren't really applicable for May anymore, and Ky can now do comparable amounts of damage off of stun edge YRC or pretty much any innocent looking touch.

The only things salvaging the matchup for May and keeping it from being worse than 6-4 are beach ball and that ridiculous IAD combo now leads into knockdown for some godforsaken reason, making that combo even more ridiculous. 

Ky still needs to advance forward somewhat to prevent May from getting beach ball out for free, but other than that the matchup is now fairly sad for May.

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The main way I've found to beat Kys as May in Xrd is basically to never jump at him, ever. Don't even attempt to go air-to-air/air-to-ground with him and just fight pure "Street Fighter". This is obviously not a miraculous solution for May, as it means putting up with Ky's ground game, but it VASTLY narrows the avenues through which May can take damage in this matchup.

Ky can still back up with impunity vs May, covering his retreat with jH, jD, ground pokes and Stun Edge. But keeping the game on the ground also helps May keep her focus on backing Ky towards the corner, tempting him to try increasingly intrepid tactics to try and keep May out, until May finally chokes off enough space that counter hitting Ky with 6P, 5H and the like become realistic and safe® possibilities. (Or at the very least, you can more safely pepper him with 5K and 5S pokes to Applause dolphins with less risk of whiffing and getting Ky 5S'ed/2S'ed/Stun Edged for your trouble.)

Yes, if you don't jump at Ky, you have to dash brake like mad and watch him backpedal for like 30+ sec before he corners himself, and you have to vertical jump Stun Edge after Stun Edge. Very Street Fighter indeed. But you also deny him the opportunity to get MASSIVE (for this MU) incidental damage from 6P/2H anti-air or a counter-hit air-to-air jK/jS/jH into air combo. This is important because the key to BOTH characters winning or losing this matchup is who has the life lead.

If May gets the life lead vs Ky, this is huge. Ky HAS to go in on her now in order to regain the life lead and the initiative. This raises May's chances of anti-airing him or counter-hitting him where otherwise Ky wouldn't have to take that risk at all; he could just sit back and let May kill herself trying to start her offense. But it's still not a super-gigantic gain for May because obviously Ky has great pressure and lots of reach, and one stray hit or throw into knockdown can mean Ky stealing back the life lead and more. But if you change the tone of the matchup by taking the life lead and turtling, you may be able to win the player matchup simply by having better defensive fundamentals when Ky gets too reckless at neutral.

This is probably the best form this matchup can assume for May in Xrd. Reduce the matchup to "who has the best ground/turtle game?" (Which, on paper, is obviously still Ky.) But it takes a lot of patience and practice for May to make it work. 

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May wins this match up 6-4.

Tiny hurtbox. Completely dominates you in the air. i'd love to see a Ky 2H work on any one of her buttons in the air.

Also her neutral rapes ours. All her projectiles/set ups hard to get in on and you know how bad our projectile can be sometimes. However the J.HS works on May, and is just about the only air button that competes with that bullshit anchor. 

Miradasai son. You gotta block that ish

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You can even Ride the Lightning through the whale, it's nice if you're in hellfire or she's about to die.

 

For what it's worth i'm gonna agree that this MU is definitely not in May's favor, not really sure how bad it is for her at this point though.

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The number I have heard for this matchup from ppl more experienced at GG than me is 6-4 Ky, and based on my experience with both smart and stupid Kys, i agree with that. Definitely no worse than that for May. Absolute best rose-tinted-glasses case, it's 5-5. No better than that for May; not in this version, anyway.

It's definitely not unwinnable (or else I would have quit May in disgust...nah not really, May is way too fun), but barring a MASSIVE gap in player skill, I think May has to be a lot less sloppy than Ky to win this matchup. May guesses wrong at neutral and she takes a big swat to the face, gets knocked back out to Ky's zoning range, and if he gets knockdown, she has to block the Ky laser light show honestly and waste a bunch of time and/or tension doing so. And her guesses at neutral can be pretty painful depending on what she misses. (Did you just get zapped by a full-screen Stun Edge, or did you try to 6P a jump back jH you had NO hope of beating and got clocked into a Stun Dipper combo into the CSE grinder? God forbid you IADed at Ky, that's utterly suicidal!).

 

Ky gets sloppy and May can put some pain on him, and he gets cornered, Ky might have to sit through a couple dolphin calls before he finds a gap. But between Ky's MUCH better normal range, his ability to punish bad/reckless summons, and his ability to turn so many max-range pokes into knockdown into pressure for MORE damage (or at least force May to burn tension to get him off her back) gives him MUCH higher comeback potential IMO. Higher overall clutch power -- ESPECIALLY where nerves are concerned.

 

May has to play footsie like whoa to avoid getting f.S'ed or Stun Edge YRCed into damage and/or a terrible situation for her. If the situation is perfectly equal, Ky has the advantage by default. The only way May changes that is with some fairly slick reads into good confirms to get enough of a life lead to force Ky to live a little (and die in the process). Much easier for a Ky player to keep calm so long as they understand the different options -- and their associated risks -- that May has to try and outsmart them (or out-dumb them, depending on the May player). Always remember that one good reversal into good oki may not immediately steal the life lead back, but the initiative is basically ALL yours until/unless May leaves blockstun.

Ky also has a MUCH better risk-return on stupid YOLO shit than May does. You try to disrespect Ky with run up Overhead Kiss or random Blanka balls/upballs and you are dancing with death via 2P abare or brutal, basic punishes (hello 6P/c.S!) into a bad situation. Ky mixes it up with (sparingly used) YOLO Greed Sever/Stun Dipper and the resultant confirm or pressure afterward can put him seriously ahead, particularly if he has Burst available in case his gamble fails. May's stubby limbs mean that she has a hard time punishing stuff like that unless you do them way too much or way too stupidly spaced. When May throws a normal, she almost always has to CHOOSE between speed or range. Ky does a lot better at combining both when he pokes, especially with meter to do Stun Edge YRC.

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Has this matchup felt any worse for anyone else in 1.1?  I don't think I've ever worked this hard for as little reward as I'm currently getting.  Any CH in the air for her leads to full punish with hard KD and an ensuing mixup that can lead to an Overhead Kiss Setup.  

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