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Skankin Garbage

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  1. Skankin Garbage

    Battle Fantasia: Combos, Strategy, Discussion

    I've been learning this game with Jinxhand, and when I told him that I made a variety of notes on Odile for personal use, he encouraged me to post them. So, I cleaned them up a bit, and here they are: Odile & Darkrod: Practical vs. Fantastical - Tips from one new player to another I've begun learning Battle Fantasia lately. One of the hurdles I keep running into as I learn Battle Fantasia is that it certainly feels likeyou can do anything. A lot of crazy cancels/combos are technically possible, and then you add in all the possibilities that are opened upwith Heat Up modes and Gachi Drives. I'm making this short guide to list some things that, to me, seem like good practical knowledge (andcombos) to know. A. Things you need to understand about Odile 1. Your special moves are unsafe on block, except fireballs. 214A/C and 214B/D are both asking to be punished on block. J.2B/D is -0 frames on block at best, and you probably won't get the best-case scenario. 2. Your 2B can be kara-canceled all day. You can (and should) use this to control space by throwing 2Bs outside of its attack range and kara-cancelling into 236A/C for pressure/keep-away, or even just not kara-cancelling it if they think they are smart and try to jump over your fireball. Likewise, if it connects, you can just chain it into 5C before cancelling it into the special move of your choice (usually 214A/C). 3. 5C is your best friend ever. The reason being, if you connect 5C - blocked or hit - you have basically until the end of the decade to cancel it into a special move. You can use this outrageous amount of time to hit-confirm it into 214A/C, or block-confirm it into 236A/C (standard cancel) or 214B/D (if you think they aren't paying attention). This is also extremely important, because - remember Thing To Know #1 - your special moves are easily punishable on block. Do everything you can to not make a habit out of cancelling 5C into a special move without hit-confirming! 4. Your only good anti-air from the ground is 5D. You can jump cancel this into a super if you like, or juggle one hit of anything else: j.C for knockdown, j.D for reset, especially cos j.D can be cancelled into 2D Drill to land quickly. (P.S: Resetting with Odile is for suckers) Basically, resist the urge to spam special moves in close range, as they are not as safe as they look. Instead, feel the situation out with her amazing normals, 2B and 5C. In general, cancel the normals into 236A/C if your normals were blocked, and cancel into 214A/C if the moves connect (2B xx 214A/C does not combo; you'll need to connect a 5C to combo into it). Cancelling into 214B/D is your audible, and should be used when you think it will connect - NOT as high/low pressure. B. (2B kara-cancelled into) Fireball Game When cancelling into 236+P, the button you use determines a few things. 236C is your variational fireball, and should be used to deter an opponent from jumping (or to catch them jumping). 236A, on the other hand, is much slower. It will allow you to continue ground pressure in different ways, such as immediately doing whiffed 5B xx 236+P again, or at certain ranges, you can even move in and do 5C. If you combo 236A into 5C, any followup will do an outrageous amount of damage, because you're avoided damage proration from comboing with a low attack. This is a good thing to fish for. As is the case with any fireball game, your goal is not just to keep them out (because reasonably, you won't be able to keep them out forever), but to gauge how your opponent reacts and use that to find out where their focus is. Is your opponent trying to gain ground after a blocked/gachi'd fireball? You can throw a 214A/C to punish gachi or even hit them as they move in. If your opponent trying to read a fireball to jump over them? That's when you don't throw a fireball at all, opting just to whiff a 2B and anti-air/dash under. Is your opponent waiting for you to rush in? Joke's on them, keep throwing fireballs. Is your opponent trying to close in very slowly? Dash in and either do an overhead or a sweep. C. "What if I cancel into a special move and it's blocked?" Naturally, this isn't an issue with 236+P, since it's a safe pressure tool. If you cancel into a blocked 214+K, you're in a spot of trouble; but, you knew that already - you can't combo into it, so it's naturally a high risk/high reward maneuver. If you cancel into a blocked 214+P, however, you can jump cancel. This is going to largely depend on your opponent's character, how experienced your opponent is, and how prepared they are. But, the short version is: 1. If you don't think your opponent is paying attention, or if you think they are inexperienced, you can jump cancel and immediately do the 2D Drill Kick for pressure. For the best results, try to jump straight up; the farther away you are from your opponent if your Drill is blocked, the better. 2. If you think your opponent is more experienced, you need to jump back, hit j.B, and hope for the best. 3. If you wanna really try and surprise them, you could jump up and do 236236+K, but don't come crying to me if it doesn't work! The long and short of it, though, is that you're in trouble. This section is about how to make the best of a bad situation...but try not to get into this situation in the first place. D. The Zone Most characters in fighting games have a certain, optimal distance that they like to play their neutral game from. In Odile's case, she can play decently from as far as full-screen, but her optimal distance - matchup permitting - is about a half-screen distance away. If you want to get an idea of exactly where, find the distance where you can do this: 236A, Dash toward your opponent, 5C for a 2-hit combo. If you're too close, you won't be able to 5C before the fireball hits your opponent. If you're too far away, your opponent will be knocked out of range of your 5C by the fireball. In-between these ranges is what you want. This is important for a lot of reasons. For one, it doesn't give your opponent a lot of time to react between 236A or 236C, which will get you at least a little bit of damage. For two, when you dash in, you now have a huge mixup between trying to combo your fireball into 5C, doing a sweep, doing an overhead, or doing 214A/C (to punish Gachi attempts). And, finally, it's an easy place to react to jump-ins in any way you choose: 5D, any jumping anti-air, or dashing under your opponent. E. The chains (For reference, with combo notation, I find it much easier to read by using uppercase letters for standing attacks and lowercase for crouching attacks. If anyone really minds, I can try and write it both ways.) Odile has three important chain combos, but they are all built on {bC}. Here's the flowchart, if it's helpful for anyone: (a/B ->) b -> C Basically, {bC} is the basic foundation of the chain, but you have two additional starters: {a}, and {B}. What's the difference between all of these? 1. bC - This is your go-to chain combo. 2B is valuable already for its kara-cancelling potential which I've detailed above, so you'll probably be using it often already. From there, it's easy to just gauge when your opponent is in range, and tack a 5C onto it. The OTHER reason it's important - and this is worth remembering - 2B is the only way she can start a chain with a low. This makes is the most valuable chain by far. The other two are for very specific things. 2. abC - This chain does more damage than {bC}, but it doesn't start low. The purpose of this chain is that her 2A is tied for the fastest startup of all her attacks. It's a way of punishing holes in your opponent's offense, while converting it into as much damage as possible, and of course, a turnover of the offense advantage into your favor. 3. BbC - This chain does the most damage the three chains...and, in fact, that's basically the only purpose for this chain. If your opponent whiffs something and lands close to you, do this combo. 4. aabC - This is the most damaging chain combo, but I strongly recommend against doing it in most situations. The principal reason being, if you're even slightly out of point-blank range, there's a good chance that the 5C will whiff. Its sole importance is punishing opponents that land right on top of you. F. Using Divertissement (effectively) Divertissement (214214A/C super) is primarily for punishing. It does 25% damage on a member of the cast with average stamina (Marco, Odile, Cedric, Ashley, Olivia). If your first instinct is to make combos that use Divertissement, I advise against it. A vast majority of combos that end in Divertissement actually do less damage than if you simply did the move by itself...quite often, significantly less. Here's a list of every combo I've found that actually does more damage than just simply using Divertissement. If you don't see it listed here...well, it doesn't do enough damage to be worth doing. 1. j.D xx D Drill \/ C xx Divertissement - Actually, just about any jump-in combo using j.C or j.D will work; this one just does the most damage. 2. (Corner variation of the above combo) j.D xx D Drill \/ C xx 214C, Divertissement You're basically doing a combo into 214C in the corner, and juggling them with Divertissement. The timing is fairly strict. 3. C xx Divertissement - ...Yeah. Comboing into this super is for suckers. If you add even one more attack to that, it's prorated to lower than the base damage of the super itself. 2. (Corner variation of the above combo) C xx 214C, Divertissement - ...You get the idea. 5C into super, jump-in into 5C into super, or 214C in the corner and juggle with super. Otherwise, just use it for punishes. G. Using Grand Pirouette Effectively Unlike her other super, this move rules. Grand Pirouette is a two-part super. The first part is the "impact", which triggers the second part of the super if it hits. The impact can be Gachi'd. The second part of the super is the "drill". This is the majority of the damage, of course. Depending on your height (or your opponent's height, if they are airborne), the amount of hits you get from the drill will vary. (For reference, the maximum amount of hits you can get from the drill on a grounded opponent is 14, for a total combo of 15 hits). This combo does about 26% damage to a grounded opponent with average stamina. You can potentially get an outrageous amount of damage - about 35% damage to an airborne opponent with average stamina - if you hit them while airborne at maximum height. But, that's an incredibly unlikely scenario. So, our goal is to do better damage than the ground version. This, is much easier to do than with Divertissement. There's actually not a whole lot to comboing into Grand Pirouette - unlike Divertissement, it's virtually impossible to get lower damage than the super itself. So, let make take a few sentences to say, this move is still an excellent punish. If you read a fireball or any "random" attack from far away, jump into the air and super. Pirouettes are for pleasure. Comboing into Grand Pirouette is simple: 1. Do any chain combo you like. You can even begin with a jump-in, a jump-in cancelled into a drill, or even 214B cancelled into a drill. 2. Cancel the chain into 214C. 3. Jump-cancel the 214C and do Grand Pirouette. Congrats, you now know 99% of the worthwhile Grand Pirouette combos. The only other one not covered by those steps is this one: - 236A, (dash in) C xx 214C /\ Grand Pirouette That combo actually does the most damage, but it's spacing-dependent and requires your opponent to mess up pretty badly. Nonetheless, our neutral game DOES set us in position to do this combo, so it's worth remembering. More importantly, the real finesse of Grand Pirouette is doing these combos mid-screen. It's virtually impossible to miss Grand Pirouette combos against a cornered opponent, but landing it against an opponent midscreen is much harder, since they're flying away at a rapid rate. It takes practice, but you're basically doing a Tiger Knee motion to count as the first 236 while ALSO performing a high jump, and then hit 236B/D with a very slight delay. The tricky part here, is that while you can't do it too slow (the opponent will land before you), you also can't do it as fast as possible either (you will either fly under your opponent, or you'll connect with the impact and get only 1-2 hits of the drill). So, a slight delay is required. If you don't feel 100% confident doing this midscreen, I recommend only attempting it off of a very high-damage combo (either the Fireball into 5C combo, or 214B into drill combo). Reason being, if you just do bC xx 214C into Grand Pirouette, even if you land it properly midscreen, it's only a negligible increase in damage (roughly 750-ish). If you land one of the other two combos and hit the Grand Pirouette successfully midscreen, you're looking at over 1000 damage. H. Help, every time I land Gachi Drives I flail around like a jackass and accomplish nothing Me too. ...But, whenever the day comes that I don't get excited upon landing a Gachi Drive and start wyling like I won the lottery, I did come up with a simple, practical combo for Gachi Drives that should work on the entire cast. 1. Low Gachi? - Meterless: CDd xx 214C The trick to landing this combo is that you need to wait until your opponent bounces off the wall, and dash in only after that. For this particular combo, you'll also need to walk forward a little bit after your dash, or you'll whiff the 2D. - With Meter (midscreen): BbCc xx 214C /\ Grand Pirouette This combo is actually very easy in the corner OR midscreen, because your opponent will not fly away as fast as they would normally. As with the meterless combo, you need to dash forward AFTER your opponent bounces. - With Meter (corner): CDd /\ Grand Pirouette ...Yep, it's the meterless combo, but juggling with super instead of 214C. You need to TK the super motion pretty quickly. 2. High Gachi? - Meterless: D, 214A, 214C For all of these combos, you need to use D to stop your opponent from flying over you. The timing is basically as late as you feel comfortable with; the later you do it, the closer they'll be as they fall, making the rest of your combo that much easier. - With Meter #1: D, 214A, 214A xx Divertissement The timing on this is weird. Juggle them with D when they are almost directly above you. Then, do the first 214A as fast as possible. The final 214A should be timed so that they are directly in front of you. Otherwise, you will miss the last hit of Divertissement. - With Meter #2: D, 214C /\ Grand Pirouette As usual, this combo does more than a Divertissement combo. But, this one is significantly harder to land, with only a minimal damage increase (about 100 damage greater). If you're a baller, do this combo instead. Otherwise, the first combo is still very useful. I. Yo dawg, you haven't mentioned any combos that don't end with supers There's not much difference to Odile's combos without meter. A few notes: - Don't do any combos I listed that end with Divertissement without meter. No reason to do so. - For any Grand Pirouette combo, the meterless version is simply to omit Grand Pirouette. In the corner, you can jump cancel and tack on either a j.D (most damage and resets...I don't recommend resetting with Odile), j.C (second most damage and knocks down), or a B/D Drill (least damage, but easiest to land if you're slightly out of the corner). - If you successfully land a 214B, you can cancel that into drill, and then do {bC xx 214A/C} when you land (probably 214C).
  2. Skankin Garbage

    [VS] General Discussion

    Hey, is there a Stream for that? Not sure if I'll be around on Saturday but I'm interested to see what you've been up to lately.
  3. Skankin Garbage

    [VS] General Discussion

    I thought the name sounded familiar. I guess I've seen him on GGPO before.Good shit!
  4. Skankin Garbage

    [VS] General Discussion

    Says he mains BB Hood. Not sure what his experience is like. Nickname, apparently, is ghettoambient. I might be hanging out with Casey this weekend (in the meantime waiting for the Prius, I *finally* got my Jeep fixed and it doesn't overheat anymore), so maybe we'll make plans to head out there soon. I know he's asked me once or twice if we were gonna show up and we haven't yet. Also, fuckin' L.A guys.
  5. Skankin Garbage

    [VS] General Discussion

    Ain't that the fuckin' truth! On that note - and I don't wanna get too hyped about this yet - my brother might sell me his Prius in the near future, so if that happens, I could make the cost of travel a lot less terrible for all of us. Here's hoping.
  6. Skankin Garbage

    [VS] General Discussion

    Well, we got a new guy who's interested in learning the game, but I've been trying to save money so I haven't gone out for months. I haven't been in touch with Casey for the same reason - too much money to drive out that far every week. But, that's gonna change pretty soon, hopefully. You almost back in the states, friend?
  7. Skankin Garbage

    [VS] General Discussion

    I have no answer to your question, but I am glad to hear you're still putting in work on the Seattle scene, Kyle!
  8. Skankin Garbage

    [VS] General Discussion

    That's something we should really look into...it would be a good indicator of what moves to look for, which ones are the best to AG and which moves to stick to if you're trying to stay on top of an opponent.
  9. Skankin Garbage

    [VS] General Discussion

    Ahh, okay, yeah I know what you're talking about. By the way, would blockstop be the same as hitstop? I realized after reading your explanation, that it was the duration of blockstop that you have to perform an AG, not hitstop. But, I guess it doesn't matter if it's the same thing, i.e hitstop creates blockstop. ...Actually, there's a definition in the VSav Wiki: "blockstop: The duration in which you are unable to switch your guard while blocking an attack. This is also usually the window of time that you are able to input a tech hit or guard cancel, and is a time prior to entering blockstun where your character is frozen in place and not being knocked back." Is that right? It sounds legit, lol.
  10. Skankin Garbage

    [VS] General Discussion

    Can you explain "hitstop" to me? I've heard Xenozip talk about it as well, that apparently you have the duration of a move's hitstop to perform an AG. However, I've never had it defined and I've never found any hitstop data, lol. This is a subject that I'd definitely like to know more about.
  11. Skankin Garbage

    [VS] Video Thread

    I'll let people know to subscribe!
  12. Skankin Garbage

    [VS] General Discussion

    You should move that to "zero reversal Shadow Blades" since you can't actually Piano Reversal attacks in Vampire Savior. Getting a Reversal consistently is way more difficult compared to other fighters because of this. Make sure other Morrigan players see this too. I don't know why they try anything else mid-screen - I especially see a lot of C.Lk -> S.Hp xx DI.
  13. Skankin Garbage

    [VS] Video Thread

    Thanks Egolei!
  14. Skankin Garbage

    [VS] General Discussion

    I play almost exclusively on GGPO. Find me there some time!
  15. Skankin Garbage

    [VS] Simple Q&A thread

    Both command throws have a ton of invulnerability (28 and 37 frames respectively) and have the same startup, but the ES Command throw also has ten active grabbing frames compared to the normal version's one active frame.
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