kaeru

Videos are coming out of the finished game and i want to start pooling as much info about new combos, new setups and new techniques as possible for the wiki. Please feel free to post any combos or setups that you find along with a link with time stamp to where you've seen it (if possible). Baiken has changed quite a bit and it's exciting !! summary of individual changes can be found here Mid Screen 6K or 2K > 6P > Yoshijin, (late) 6P > Kabari, 6P, Suzuran ~ Zakuro Kabari air hit, 6HS, j.D FRC, ad j.Tatami, land, 2D > j.K > dj.H > dj.Tatami, land, 6P > Suzuran~Zakuro j.HS |> 2k > f.5S > j.D FRC > AD > j.S > j.D video @ 9:12 Sakura CH, c.5S > 5HS > 236K (FRC) > IAD > j.S > j.D (in the video, the last j.D whiffed, but it looked like it could work) video @ 11:31 Kabari (air hit), 2D(or 6P) > j.P > j.S (> j.P) > j.D (j.D can be FRCed for Tatami and follow up in corner) video @ 12:29 Air Hit (5P >) 5S > j.S > j.D (FRC) > AD, (delay) 236k |> j.D video @ 15:19 CH IAD Tatami, Dash > j.S > j.D FRC > AD > j.HS > Tatami > (Opponent walkbounces backwards out the corner) J.SPKSPK video Baku > K > K > (Dash > 236K) x3 (or until corner) > j.D FRC > AD > j.D video CH Kabari, dash, 2K > c.5S > j.D FRC, AD > j.236K > Kabari > 6HS > j.D CH Ouren, dash, 6HS > j.D FRC > AD Tatami > Kabari > 6HS > j.D Kabari (air hit), c.5S > 2D > j.K, dj.HS > dj.236K, land, j.D video Near Corner j.S CH > j.236k, land, 6HS > j.SD FRC, AD, j.HS > j236K, land, 6P > Suzuran~412P video Corner [*]5H > Tatami, 2D > j.K > dj.H > dj.Tatami, land, 6P > Suzuran~Zakuro [*]2K > c.5S > 2D > 236K, 5S > j.S > j.D (FRC) > AD > j.HS > j.236K |> j.P > (in the video the ender was whiffed) video @ 17:18 [*]IAD j.S > Air Tatami |> 2D > j.SPSD, j.D (linking 2D into j.S might be character specific) video [*]AT (High Air Throw towards Corner in the Corner) |> (Baiken's back to Corner) 2K > 5S > J.SPKSD video [*]CH Ouren > f.S > j.SD FRC > AD > j.HS > j.236K |> 6P > Suzuran~412P (Zakuro) [*]Youzansen RC, j.236K |> 6HS > j.K > dj.HS > dj.236K |> 6P > Suzuran~412P (Zakuro) video [*]Youzansen RC, j.236K |> 6HS > (jump back) j.SD FRC, AD > j.HS > j.236K |> 6K > 2HS, 6P > Suzuran~412P (Zakuro) video [*]j.236K -> land, dash, 5f.S > j.S > j.D FRC, AD, j.HS > j.236K, land, 6P > Suzuran~412P video [*]6P (air hit) > sj.PSD FRC, AD, j.HS > j.236K, land, 2HS, 6P > Suzuran~412P video

You have to actually do 6 FRC 6. It takes a lot of practice. Weird find, sounds funky ! nice job. Curious if the black beat is a type of OTG safety thing.

You want to also do a mini dash 6P, as well as doing it late. That might be what you are missing. Also, it doesn't work on lighter characters. Robo-Ky is one of the easier characters to practice on and then move up from there. I hope that helps !

I wish I could help you with this one, I have very little Millia experience, myself. For anti-air, learn to rely on block -> Zakuro more, it will even beat safe jumps when performed perfectly. It's nothing like Yoshikin used to be in AC. At neutral, airdash back tatami isn't safe from hair car most of the time. This was pretty painful for me personally when I fought Millia the few times that I did. Looking forward to some more knowledgeable player posts !

We started a convo in the matchup thread, but no one else added to it. If anyone has some experience to share, please add some info to the Justice matchup thread !

Unfortunately I don't know anything about tier lists. Baiken is a good character, I feel like her worst matchups are a lot more manageable now.

Learning a new character is a great time to switch to stick (Assuming you are not already used to playing on stick!). You're welcome for the advice, it's our pleasure ! Post back with results from training or any questions. I realized while re-reading my post that some bits might have been unclear. If there is anything you don't quite get let me know and I, or someone else here, will try to explain it differently.

Hi Sadeyo, one thing I noticed that you could work on right away is the normals that you choose while spacing the opponent. Baiken is a very strange character that has some excessively long range pokes and getting used to them is really important (in my opinion). I would even go so far as to say that her neutral game pokes are more important than guard cancels when it comes to winning. With that said, make an effort to never use her crouching P. It's her least useful poke and would only be needed in a type of frame trap situation where the specific speed and range of it was necessary. The reason why you shouldn't open up pressure with it is that it is actually NOT a low, and has horrible combo starter proration. 2K has the same proration but actually IS a low and 5P is faster and has NO extra combo starter proration. In any situation where you feel like opening pressure with 2P, you're always better off picking 5P or 2K depending on your distance and how much speed you need. But Baiken can shine even more with her longer range pokes. I noticed you use a lot of 2S. It's a very underrated poke because the combo opportunities of it -at a glance- seem poor. Keep using this poke at neutral but be sure to try and outspace your opponent with it. Do not use it point blank. If you can hit with it, it combos into 5f.S which can combo back into 2S until the opponent is completely out of range. This is useful because for both 2S and 5f.S on a crouching opponent, you can combo directly into tatami. If you hit them with 2S and notice they are standing, on most characters you can hit confirm into 5f.S and then combo into a lowest possible j.D. Lastly, if you hit with either 5f.S or 2S and get a counter hit, you can combo into tatami as well. If you focus on only one thing, try focusing on this to up your neutral game and comfort levels with Baiken. This bit is useful to everyone: on the topic of 2S~5S, I recently learned to appreciate it a lot more. If your opponent blocks your max distance 2S without FD, you will 90% of the time be in the PERFECT spacing for a tatami that only hits with the closing portion. This makes it extremely safe and very troublesome for the opponent to move. The slightest forward movement from their hurtbox will get them hit, and in most cases they have to pick their attack/movement carefully or stay and block the closing mat, leaving Baiken free to reset pressure.

I've never tried setting up a blockstring from j.D -> airdash. This sounds great ! Thanks !

Thanks for clarifying that Hellmonkey !! So that would mean if you FRC Youzansen and did j.K -> double jump you could actually negate the landing recovery. Very cool, I had no idea. How would you go about jump installing for j.D? Could you give an example with notation, please?

You definitely do not need to change your input to anything else if it works for you !! The most important things are comfort and consistency. If you're comfortable doing it that way and it is consistent, by all means keep it !! Don't let anyone tell you otherwise :3.

I'll try to break this down by parts so you can identify where you're having trouble based on the outcome you are getting. first the 2369 -> This is straightforward, just make sure you don't miss the 3 or you might not get the tatami at the end. very slight delay -> This is to let Baiken get off the ground. Messing this part up will result in no airdash 6 -> Tapping 6 here at the lowest possible height will get the airdash going. very slight delay -> This is to let Baiken finish the airdash startup time, during which the game ignores your inputs. Messing this part up will result in no Tatami. K -> Finally, hit K as soon as the airdash startup is done and you will fastfall the airdash with a beautiful (kire) Tatami. Hopefully this will help you diagnose where you are having trouble. As far as super jump goes, you shouldn't get a superjump but even if you do, it shouldn't matter or harm you in any way. For Youzansen: 62369 -> Straight forward but again, make sure you don't miss that 3, it's extremely important. very slight delay -> same as kire tatami, if you move on before Baiken is airborn, it will result in an empty super jump instead. S -> hit S at the right height to begin Youzansen. The right height is not the lowest possible height, but just a few pixels above it. This makes combing easier. 236KSH -> Roman cancel with K. This part HAS to be done (as much as possible) completely during the hitstop of the Youzansen. Do not do it earlier then that, and make sure it's completely done and you've let go of KSH before hitstop is over. This is the best way to get the tatami out properly. If you mess this up by doing it too soon, you will not even get a roman cancel. If you wait too long to finish the motion, you will get a roman cancel but Baiken's landing will cancel the tatami. If your timing is right, but you get no Tatami, it might be that you missed the 3. If you get a second Youzansen, you need to clean up your motion down to a simple 236 OR make sure you let go of K first -> [KSH] > ]K[. This will prevent any S or H moves from getting negative edged. The difficulty here involves waiting for the right time, and then executing as fast as possible. I hope this helps !

Yes you are absolutely right. The use of j.H in the corner is especially tricky because if you do it with a neutral double jump (instead of forward) you can earn more repetitions of (2D j.K j.H j.Tatami) before needing to go for cross under 6P. Learning to get it to work requires a lot of practice and is character specific.

This time around Baiken simply doesn't have any true reliable B&B. Pretty much everything is situational. Here is a very basic rundown of things that work (generally) mid screen: (character specific) 6K or 2K > 6P > Yoshijin, (late) 6P > Kabari, 6P, Suzuran ~ Zakuro this doesn't work on light characters and needs to be played around with. Maruken has done some crazy stuff on Jam that is different. with some meter: stuff, j.D FRC, ad j.Tatami, land, 2D > j.K > dj.H > dj.Tatami, land, 6P > Suzuran~Zakuro the 2D can be replaced by 6HS on some characters and can be replaced by 6HS > Tatami on other characters a good starter for this is airhit Kabari, ground slide towards Baiken. Kabari air hit, 6HS, j.D FRC, continue as above corner (character specific) stuff, Tatami, 2D > j.K > dj.H > dj.Tatami, land, 6P > Suzuran~Zakuro or stuff, Tatami FRC (or air Tatami) > 6H > Tatami, j.K > dj.H > dj.Tatami, land, 6P > Suzuran~Zakuro Then you can also play around with the different ending where instead of going for the last 6P you do: 6K > 2HS > 6P > Suzuran~Zakuro I know this works well on the testament/slayer type hitboxes but it can be hard to time just right. Sorry for the lack of a better answer to your question, but I hope this helps you get started.

Unfortunately jump installing won't really change anything about Youzansen. The two main issues being it's very unsafe on block, and the landing recovery after she touches the ground (during which time the game prevents her from blocking). If there was a way to make it safe, it would still be very very difficult to confirm whether it hit or was blocked before you'd have to RC to get the combo. Interesting fact on the topic, even if you FRC youzansen, which is before the active frames, Baiken STILL has to suffer the horrible landing recovery when she touches the ground, even if you did other air moves before landing.

Just to clarify: Hitstun -> the flinching state a character is in after getting hit Blockstun -> the time locked in blocking state after blocking an attack Hitstop -> the time where the game is completely frozen after an attack connects (block or hit) Baiken's guard cancels are activatable on hitstop, while the game is supposed to be frozen in time. That's the only reason why she ever hit anyone in accent core with Sakura, despite it being ridiculously slow. The lowest level attacks in guilty gear have an 11 frame hitstop, and the hitstop grows as the level of attack increases. 5H is a high level attack, therefore more hitstop. There are some moves that have special, reduced hitstop, especially multi-hit moves. Projectiles are special, and are very risky to guard cancel against, because only the defender is stuck in hitstop. The attacker and the game timer both continue as normal during the hitstop of a projectile. No you can't GC while getting hit, but you can GC while in hitstop from blocking. Edit: qwerty, it's very possible that the reason why you've seen it beat is because it's actually a bit difficult to perform the full guard cancel during hitstop because it requires buffering the input early. If Baiken tries to react and guard cancel, she may already be out of time when the move comes out.

Thanks for the awesome post qwerty ! I personally don't have enough matches in +R to add much to the discussion, though I do want to add one thing to your breakdown. Baiting Baiken's counters in +R is significantly different now. Sakura especially can be done entirely during hitstop. If you present a high level blocked attack like 5H, even if you intend to cancel it, Baiken will be able to to hit you (assuming you are in range) during the hitstop, before the cancel opportunity arrives. In AC Sakura was very slow, but invincible, so there were ways to cancel out of attacks to make it whiff or to block it in time. One more thing I want to mention is how similar to Johnny's new up coin, Baiken's new guard cancel: Zakuro, makes a lot more matchups easier because it's a lot harder to jump in on her with long range air pokes that would otherwise beat her traditional 6P anti-air. In the few matches I have played against our resident Johnny player, I have felt this has helped me quite a bit. Being able to grab Baiken faster is absolutely invaluable, so this must be a great asset for Johnny indeed !! I hope that's useful !

Generally YZS FRC isn't worth the reward of the difficulty of pulling it off. But if you want to play around with it, the guide has a nice shortcut to help make it easier. Also you could consider using j.K after it to go straight into air combo depending on where you are and what you want to accomplish. The shortcut in the guide is to negative edge Youzansen, and then hit the 3 buttons for the FRC. Since you are just letting go of a button to do the move you have more time to hit the buttons for the FRC. Again, this isn't REALLY worth the effort it requires. You would do yourself more good learning to gatling into j.D on standing opponents or hit confirming a crouching 2S into tatami. The macro glitch does not make YZN FRC any easier at all, whoever said that doesn't really understand what makes YZS FRC difficult.

Yooooo Crossfire !!! Shoutouts to you, too. Why did we only meet minutes before my departure!? It will only add to the hype for next time !!!! I look forward to it.

Special shoutouts to Jourdal: The reason Top 4 was hype !! I'll never forget Kirbster standing up at the end of a round, eyes wide and mouth agape, as if looking at the messiah as he said: "Jourdal is real !!" #JourdalIsReal2013 Special shoutouts to SUPERSCIENCE !!! are we fated to fight each other at every tournament?! This FITE was glorious, and I am sure the next will be even more grand !

Absolutely Epic NEC this year. I didn't think it could get any more hype than last year but somehow it's on a whole new level.. The sheer numbers, the level of competition, the team hype, the upsets and the energy.. Just wow. Thank you St1ckbug, thank you BigE, thank you C0R, thank you Dai and everyone who ran brackets and helped organize this event. Shoutouts !!!!! To St1ckbug for being glorious. You often say how you didn't want to become an icon of the anime fighting game community, and it's that humility and selflessness that makes you the light in our eyes. We fight and train and stress and cheer and travel - THANKS TO YOU. I love you man. To my teammates, Roldy and Bill !! We had such a blast this weekend. Thank you so much for taking me on, i couldn't ask for better than you guys. I don't even have words to express how much fun I had thanks to you two !! So much tamashii in Ikaruga !! C0R, it was a real honor and a pleasure to meet you. We didn't get to FITE, but I am burning with anxiousness for the day we can be locked in battle !! Let me buy you a drink when you come to Montreal. You inspire confidence to the people around you. I know everything is going smoothly when you're taking care of it, and we are lucky to have had you help running this event ! DaiAndOHHHHH !!! My friend, it's always such a pleasure to see you again. We didn't FITE either, it will just have to wait for MAD !!! We can rock some gundam and BB and GG and everything you want to play. I wish i could've been there more days so we could hang out !! Digital Watches ! Thanks so much for hanging out with me at the tournament ! It was great to talk shit and cheer on matches with you. I will not forget that set with MarlinPie and yourself. You bring the hype with you. You've got that smooth personality and sharp dress and confident smile that shows you can take on anything. LET'S FITE !!!!! Shtkn !!! Everytime I see you on the east coast I am impressed ! It mustn't be easy for you to travel so far, but This event is a better one because you're there !! I truly mean that. Circuitous ! It was so good to see you, my friend. You're looking better than ever !!! Your positive attitude and positive spirit would be right at home in Montreal, you should consider moving up here so we can hang out all the time !!! I wish we could've had some matches, but honestly i regret nothing. Seeing you always makes me happy ! Amadeous ! We barely saw each other !! UNACCEPTABLE !!! I demand some old fashioned FITE next time we have a chance !! And let's go hang out afterwards, too !! The Jam cosplayer with us was super cool, very pleasantly surprised !! SKD !! east coast USA is DAMN lucky to have you. Such a strong caliber player and personality, alike. I am not in the least afraid to admit that i admire you. I hope we can have time to shoot the breeze and mash some more buttons next time ! We only fought once, but it meant everything to me. Thank you. da HUEY !! The one man i actually got to sit down and play. I treasure every opportunity and I'll hold on to your advice. I look forward to our next FITE. Lord Knight, thanks for the good times we had drinking and talking shit !! I was kinda sad we barely hung out last year, but man did we have fun this time !!! Expect lots of good times at MAD this year !!! Kid Viper ! I dunno if you read the forums much, but stay godlike !!! It's an honor for me to say that I've met you. You have a strong spirit, I can tell just from the look in your eyes. It makes me want to FITE !!! Let's have a good one next time !! DC, thanks for being such a brother. I finally got to meet you for real this time and I'm really grateful. You don't seem like the type to check the forum very often, but that's OK, you don't need shoutouts to know how great a time we had ! Say hi to Theo for me if you read this. Peace ! Lich !! Hang out with me at every tournament, man ! I want you to count me as a friend. I admire your courage. Kirbster. Thanks for sharing the ride back with me. It was a pleasure to drive with you to talk to all the way home. The time just flew by. You're a true friend and I love you. Brice !! Bwhaha godlike player who belongs to Montreal ! Thanks for the drink, it came from far away and cost so much and you shared it with me, how do i say thank you to that? Thanks is not enough for your time, your energy, your spirit and all the good you bring to us everyday. Goodluck with your exams ! Life and FITE are both damn good when you're around. If you ever need anything, I'm there for you. DerQ, I wish so I coudl've seen that reverse OCV into top 16. You are AMAZING !!! Airmaster, that cool guy attitude, did you have fun my friend? Dhaos, I hope you took the time to really enjoy yourself and meet new people !! Shoutouts to those who enjoyed my commentary in stream chat. It was a lot more fun than i thought it would be ! To everybody who came to NEC, KEEP THAT SPIRIT BURNING !! It's because of each person who made it out that it was a gdlk event !!

These moments are all in the Kuni vs Teresa match vid: Interesting variation of the meterless B&B for light characters, 6P early and first hit whiffs on purpose. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=b6IuGRwrJoA#t=881 Earlier in the same vid, a corner version that is very interesting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=b6IuGRwrJoA#t=82 It seems similar to the "heavy character" yoshijin loop from earlier, but this might work on lighter characters. It dropped but since he went for it, it is probably possible. It might be corner only. Grab into Baku~Unblockable Unburstable setup http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=b6IuGRwrJoA#t=50 Arguably, the meter would've been better spent on a Youzansen mixup, but this is still interesting and I wanted others to take a look and see it for what it is. It didn't score Kuni a combo, but it allowed Kuni to meaty with his best starter, 6HS, and use the head invulnerable frames to escape Jam's poor reversal (though, Jam could've parried). Then Kuni punishes the whiffed reversal, but the curse was over and Burst became an option once more. Gekirin counter http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=b6IuGRwrJoA#t=107 This is really interesting and Kuni does it MANY times in the fight, leading me to believe this is something useful that can be applied against Jam in general. It seems half option selected because he is holding 4 and taps HS to either get a late meaty on wakeup, or a 6HS cross up Gekirin punish. 6HS Startup and head invulnerable frames seem to match perfectly with this. If the Gekirin doesn't come, You'd get a 5HS poke on okizeme, which isn't totally bad, but maybe a little late. Not a big deal considering 5HS's speed. Another example here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=b6IuGRwrJoA#t=188 This is a bit strange, and I'm not sure if it's worth mentioning, but tagging a tiny bit of damage after Zakuro and maintaining Oki: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=b6IuGRwrJoA#t=433 It seems to work well, and timed for the Tatami to still give arguable Okizeme. Falling tatami is better, but it might catch someone off guard? Keeping setups ambiguous and fresh has a certain value. It seems to be directly aimed at fishing for a counter hit from a mashy opponent, who sees the tech as an opportunity to punish.

Thank you, Solid ! The makers of guilty bits did a LOT of work crunching all the information into something informative and fun. They definitely deserve most of the credit. A pleasant side effect of that video though: The pages and pages of basic Baiken info i wrote to them is slowly becoming excellent material for the wiki. It's almost done now ! If any of you guys want to take a look at Baiken's wiki page and comb it for mistakes it would be appreciated. We're only human ! Thanks again for the comment, it means a lot to me.

Thank you for all your insight into those moments Hellmonkey ! I really like that little yoshijin loop. I fixed the input for tetsuzansen in my post, sorry about that. Also added the timestamp for the kire tatami combo against Anji, it was missing. This combo is nothing new, but it seemed to be a really good visual example since it was a topic of discussion earlier in the thread. I still have a lot of trouble with this one, myself ! Hopefully the visual aid will be useful to others.

Kuni vs Gaku 10/17/13 Kuni vs Haaken 10/17/13 Kuni vs Domi 10/17/13 Kuni vs Kishitaka 10/17/13 Kuni vs Karun 10/17/13 Kuni vs Satou 10/17/13 Kuni grabs Satou's burst and claims his soul ! Kuni vs FAB 10/17/13 Kuni vs Nakamura 10/17/13 Kuni vs TON 10/17/13 not a good match, but perhaps useful for matchup knowledge adding these to the first post as well, finals at Mikado ! Kuni worked really hard in these sets.