BlackYakuzu94

Because contrary to popular belief, the Japanese aren't perfect and they too will fall for things if they aren't paying attention, they piss, shit, and sleep just like the rest of us. :V A better question would be why do you think they aren't doing it? You can't really punish her DP (very few characters actually can), but she's forced to use a stock for it and you don't actually lose your position and can maintain the offensive game. Punshing things isn't just about "block X and hit them to get damage", you have to look at the situation and the things surrounding it.

Flux Nurture really is not as good as you're describing it; its hitbox is small and it has a very noticeably long startup, yes it sounds annoying to deal with on paper, but if you have the level of awareness that you should be having when playing the game, then you can easily OS it and stay on top of her. Her movement is very telegraphed and does not have invulnerability on frame 1, and she can only move in two of three directions. God hand has a fuck ton of recovery and she can be punished for it if you're in range. Why do you think so many players only use it at full screen, outside the range of where it can reasonably be punished. Look, I'm not saying Nine isn't good, because its pretty obvious that she is and is easily one of the best characters in the game atm, but that doesn't mean that she does not have her faults that can be exploited. That's what I'm referring to, she's a character designed with a game plan that obviously makes her good, but she does have shortcomings that limit what she can do. None of that has anything to do with what goes on in the game screen though, so its kind of irrelevant to my point. :\ I don't care about personality, or aesthetics, all I'm looking at is: What character X is doing and how are the other characters dealing with it. That's it, nothing else. What isn't useful about it though? A character's tools and how they work directly translates to how strong they are...? Is that not how fighting games work? You know design encompasses more than just the very specific definition of what you just described, if I am talking about a character in a fighting game and what can they do, then what I mean by "design" should be incredibly obvious. Arguing whether to call it "balance" or "design" is debating about semantics and technicalities, which kinda sidesteps what I was talking about before. But for the sake of peace, we'll use your definition and call it "balance". Nine's a balanced character, there, that's all I was really saying. She's great, but not overpowered. There. Simple.

"Well-designed" is literally exactly what it sounds like, a character that is solid all around with good tools for their gameplan. Nine has tools that help that other characters do not, namely her normals which makes her neutral exceptional. This is balanced by the fact that she has very limited movement and defensive options. That's all there is to it really.

That's because people were really bad at the game :V That list is pretty funny, Kinda surprised a Kokonoe didn't make it tho. Three Ragna's and Hakumens, so I'm satisfied. And the abundance of Carls and Nines doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

That's what I meant. Yea, but what if its blocked? Gotta commit to that Super :V

The only downside to his overhead is the fact that you need to burn meter to use it.

I mean, I already said my piece so I don't really have much else to add.

Why is evaluating moves like that "meaningless" when that's exactly how the best players make decisions in neutral; how can anyone expect to make a move and not consider how their tools stack up against everyone else's. That is the very definition of "matchup experience" Jin's 5C also isn't supplemented by things like Steins, ya know those things that also help Mu. Looking at Jin's moves in a vacuum and just being like "Well he can perform better than X than Y, so clearly he must be good" ignores the fact the there are other characters on the roster that are better. You want oppressive pressure, go play against Valkenhayn, 1.0 Kokonoe, or SKD's Izayoi. That's what is actually oppressive. What Jin can do is paltry by comparison. The only move on that character that is truly "oppressive" is how his j.2C supplements his offense and the uses it has. And I want to make this absolutely clear, I am not saying Jin is not a strong character, but rather the degree to how strong he actually is based on the physical evidence within the game's data. If Jin performs better than other characters because of his tools, but there are also characters that can still perform better with their tools, guess what, that's the definition of average. For you to overestimate just how strong this character is despite evidence to the contrary, I'm led to assume that you struggle fighting against him a lot, which if I had to summarize is less how "strong" he is and more on A) you the player(unless every Jin player you fight is somehow amazing) and/or B) the character(s) you're using just have lesser tools than he does.

You are seriously going out of your way to make yourself seem "right" aren't you and just ignore everything I'm saying huh. I really don't know what else to say without coming off as redundant. The proof is literally in the frame data and how the game is structured, and you can talk to anyone who actually knows a thing or two about this game and they'll probably tell you something similar to what I'm saying.

I really don't know how to explain this any simpler lol. I'm not even arguing that Jin isn't good, I never said that in any of my previous posts, what am I saying is that his tools, when looked at by themselves, are inherently average when compared to the tools that other characters have. Together? Yes, they make him a very good and versatile character, but none of that changes the fact that they are tools that are lesser than things other characters can do. All I'm literally saying is that Jin is not specialized, I don't know what's so difficult about this to understand. :\

I'm saying that a player might actually just straight up be good rather than something about the character being amazing.(Note, this is not always necessarily true, sometimes a character really is strong enough to carry a player) Seriously, just because Jin has tools for everything, and those tools themselves are useful doesn't make said tools better than the characters who actually perform them better. Tao and Valkenhayn have better movement and mixup, Litchi can control space better with her staff, and Izayoi can basically do everything Jin can do on a much grander scale and the list goes on. Jin is still average because while he does have good tools, they are still tools that other characters have and may actually perform better in, as I mentioned. That, by definition, is what's called a "Jack of All trades, Master of None" character :V Now sure, in the hands of a GOOD player, then he's a fucking monster. But that's it, it's the player that is bringing out the best in the character. And while I don't think Jin players are better than players of other character, there are a lot of good Jin players out there that are pretty well known. That's something you can't really deny.

I never said they aren't strong lol. Jin is still a rather average character overall, the only thing truly busted about him is maybe his j.2C with its busted ass hitbox. So no, only "high tiers" can't beat him. His movement, mixup, damage, etc etc are still rather average overall. Not saying he isn't strong, but, once again, its the player more than likely. Because like I said, Jin is played by some of the best players in the game :V

I mean, unless their tools are outright terrible (which Naoto's aren't as we went over), then its mostly dependent on the player. Look at how high up Jin is on that list, but he's generally regarded as the "jack of all trades" character who doesn't excel anywhere, so why is he so high up? Yea, he got buffed a lot this version, but its also the fact that he's played by some of the best players of the game.

Oh I'm not saying he should be higher or anything, his spot seems justified considering that everyone else is just straight up better like you said. Despite everything I said, he is at the end of the day, basically another Ragna but with some additional tools that he doesn't have. I'd honestly put him at average or slightly above so if I'm honest. I just don't want people to get the wrong idea that he's not viable, because he is lol. That goes for all characters that seem to under-perform, just because a character places low in a list doesn't mean they're suddenly not viable to use. Even Terumi is viable to a certain extent in CPEX. I just don't want to get discouraged.

So because you don't like him for arbitrary reasons, he doesn't deserve to be a viable character? ooooook. Anyway, I'm gonna focus on Naoto being considered "bad". Everyone seems to be under the impression that because he has short range, and that he looks like Ragna, he doesn't bring anything to the table, which is kinda horseshit. The simplest explanation is just from his drive, Bloodedge. Do you know how long the range on his drive moves gets when he charges? They cover almost literally a 1/4th of a screen, and that's not even getting into the reward he gets if he actually hits you with it raw. j.D in particular slows descent which allows him to stuff most anti-airs and confirm into big boy damage. He can also just feint or dash cancel out of the charge to help his approach. He's also one of the few characters with a low hitting 2A (actually, does anyone have a low 2A in this game?) There's also the amount of corner carry he gets midscreen with Enhanced Inferno Crusader. No character with corner carry like this is "bad" to me. As for why Japan have their opinion of him, there just aren't a lot of good Naoto players that actually know what to do with him. Kaqn and Kamikaze are really the only ones I know.

You might wanna watch better Naoto's then :V Its hilarious how much they're sleeping on that character.

Maybe he just wants a PS4.

Maybe Japan finally started blocking Kunzite :V

Ok, so I keep hearing that Act 3 will be in March.....where and when did this rumor start?

I'm glad his playstyle revolves around his personality.

She doesn't really look complicated.

Mori's proportions have always been kind of odd, its like the guy barely knows his anatomy lol. Its still a nice pic at least.

Well Jin bullied her, you think she's gonna share with him :V

All I know is that she can take like 2 to 3 hits on it, but it rapidly depletes her barrier gauge. Its definitely strike though because I've seen her get grabbed out of it.

Her drive looks like it helps with locking the opponent down and float looks like its used for extremely mixup. So basically, she's looking like a rushdown/ lockdown hybrid of sorts. That said...we have little match footage of her sooo