Jump to content


  • Content count

  • Joined

  • Last visited


About BananaKun

  • Rank
    Silver Member
  • Birthday 04/25/1988

Other Info

  • Location
    East Lansing, MI
  • XBL
    Banana Ken PR
  • PSN
  1. BananaKun

    [P4AU] List of issues with the wiki's frame data

    My understanding is that ASW doesn't want hitbox data to be readily available, but I guess it was a recent enough change in policy that it was allowed in P4A. When UNIEL got released on consoles a hitbox viewer was made available but it got instantly shut down.
  2. BananaKun

    [P4AU] List of issues with the wiki's frame data

    I added this to the OP. A note on the images: there's a LOT of missing images for multiple characters. Documenting these would help a lot in fixing it as soon as possible (again, I'll add them as I run into them when using the wiki). The only problem is that a lot of the existing images seem to be sprite rips, and honestly if I were to do it I would just settle for a simple HD screenshot through a capture card. The priority should be to just fill out the missing entries through the easiest means; anything is better than a missing image.
  3. BananaKun

    [P4AU] List of issues with the wiki's frame data

    Please try to narrow it down as much as possible, that's important info on that move though. Edit: Margaret evernote with frame data, at a glance it doesn't seem to contain new information? https://www.evernote.com/shard/s492/sh/26aab915-2998-4b99-9cf0-795ef454f923/3061cd68095565930f0884dd3a68a0aa Now that I think about it, probably the easiest important thing to fill out for the DLC characters would be their gatling tables. If someone doesn't beat me to it by this weekend I'll give that a go.
  4. Dustloop's wiki is always one of the main tools I use when learning a new anime game. It's always been the best way for me to learn things from my character, how to fight other characters and overall it's a great reference to peek at when you're not sure about something. It's helped me a LOT through P4A, BBCP1.0 and BBCP1.1. Now that I'm trying to get up to speed in P4AU, I've run into multiple problems while using this game's wiki, and it just slows you down to a crawl whenever you run into missing, incomplete or downright incorrect data. For example: Narukami's SB Issen listed as having projectile invulnerability from frames 1-16, it's actually only on frames 4-5 (estimated)Adachi's SB Atom Smasher is listed as 3+3, but is actually 5+1DLC chars are missing large amounts of frame data, mostly active frame, recovery frames and attack level stuff. Some moves just aren't listedYes, you can just verify this data and just training mode everything, but that is also a massive waste of time if you need to do this for every single situation you run into. The first two examples are already fixed, but it's very possible that there's more like that. It's easy to verify that SB Issen doesn't actually have projectile invul from frames 1-16, but the fact this was listed wrong is troubling; worst case scenario someone could have just read that and believe the wiki so they might never try projectile based oki on Narukami if he has 75 meter. Adachi's is also easy to verify, but 3+3 implies that you could in fact try to roll through it and this is obviously not the case which is confusing and frustrating. I use active frames, recovery frames and attack level data all the time just to get a feel for a move's properties at a glance. It's not a substitute for playing against the character and dealing with that move in a real match but it lets me get an idea of how to deal with it. This way, when I sit in training mode I don't waste any time doing things I know won't work. As I find errors or figure out new frame data that isn't listed I'll add them, but I can't possibly find and/or fix everything on my own. Below is a list of problems I've found so far. I'm hoping the P4AU community could help in fixing the wiki, as this would help any competitive P4AU player. A lot of this information is not trivial to obtain, and I understand that. But at the very least if you notice that your character is on this list and the data is out there, letting people know here (or adding to/correcting the wiki) would be amazing. Feel free to post if you find any issues not listed here as well and I will add them to this post. Some important things to keep in mind: Every character has a wiki page AND a frame data page. When editing, please make sure to edit BOTH pages, so that the frame data and the wiki page agree.DO NOT PUT 2.0 CHANGES ON 1.1 PAGES. All 2.0 wiki pages will be clearly labeled with (P4AU2) at the end of the URL. Narukami's 1.1 frame data page contained 2.0 notes, such as Cross Slash being Fatal Recovery but not D and SB Swift Strike; this has been fixed, but not every value has been double-checked. (A Narukami main would be best for that.)If you aren't proficient at or simply don't like editing the wiki, that's fine, but if you know where frame data for console characters can be found, please post the links and/or data here and mixedmethods will add it. (Or possibly someone else will! Who knows?) For example, Margaret's 1.1 frame data is available in an Evernote, which is what I've been using while filling in her 1.1 frame data page. You can find her data here.If your character doesn't have a fleshed out wiki page and frame data page, anyone is free to start a thread in the relevant subforum to gather info and coordinate work. Even if you aren't the most knowledgeable player, collecting known values helps people like me (who may not know much about a certain character) when it comes to building frame data pages. This includes notes such as "+[value] when done as close as possible." (Ken, Narukami, and I believe Naoto as well (at least in P4U1) all have such threads -- they're helpful.)If you plan to or in fact do edit to fix a known issue, please leave a note here so it can be crossed off the to-do list.While anyone can edit the wiki, uploading images requires an account. If you would like to create an account, please send a direct message to AnneIFrank here on Dustloop. Twitter is not an effective way of contacting Anne.List of known issues: (if they are fixed, they will be crossed out) Aigis: Akihiko: Chie: Elizabeth: Junpei: 236236D start-up is incorrect; it is actually 0f after super flash if the bat is swung immediately.2D start-up is incorrect. It is either 25 or 26 frame startup. Tested via punishing Akihiko's DP, which is -24; not punishable without IB, but with IB you get a punish.All homerun damage values for for 236236A/B/C/D are incorrect, as there are differences between using A/C and B/D to swing the bat. Requires testing to confirm exact values.Kanji: Ken: Recovery frames missingActive frames missingAwakening super frame data incomplete/missing. His DP super is listed as just "7" instead of something like 4+3 (made that up)IK frame data missingLabrys: Margaret: Active frames missingRecovery frames missingAttack levels missingMediarahan frame data missingMarie:Active frames missingAttack levels missingMitsuru:Values for various cancels (hop-cancel j.B and j., 5C dash cancel at 3/6/9/etc. hits) is missingTentarafoo frame advantage is missingNaoto: Rise: Attack levels missingAttack attributes missingStartup time for Tetrakarn/Makarakarn missingDamage values for Hysterical Slap and Risette Field missingShadow Labrys:SB Titanomachia landing recovery not listed Now has an estimateSB Titanomachia invul not listedSHO Minazuki:5B is missing an image5C has an incorrect damage value, should be 6002B is three hits, should have damage values of 300, 150, 150j. C is two hits, should have damage values of 400, 200j. 2C has an incorrect damage value, should be 700Survival Knife is missing an imageA Hougetsuzan: Soaring Fang has an incorrect damage value, should be 700All multi-hitting normals (5B, 2B, j. B, j. C) have a unique property - the first hit that connects with the opponent will do the first, higher damage value. So for example, if you use 2B from beyond the first hit's range but the second two hits connect, it'll do 450 damage (300+150), not 300 (150+150).P Combo System: You can only do a combined total of two 5B and 2B per string. 5B > 5C > 5B works; 5C > 5B > 2B works; 5B > 5C> 5B > 2B does not.Sho MINAZUKI: Teddie: j.2C data is missingStartup time for Teddie Warp is missingMystery Teddie SP startup and recovery is ambigious; in the latter's case, Teddie can perform any non-Persona action as soon as his Persona starts throwing items, and any Persona-based action after the last item is thrownNihil Hand incorrectly says that it can't be cancelled into anything; strictly speaking, it can be OMCed or OMBed ONLY on blockTomahawk's damage for the SB version is incorrectTurbo Recon Dynamo has awkward listing of its active frames [23(26)23(26)43(26)23(26)23(26)42(26)23(26)23]; makes sense because of how the item works, but looks messyMystery Food X still says it inflicts Poison; it only inflicts Silence and Fear in 1.1Startup time for Motorcycle Key after it's picked up is missingStartup times for Amagiya Buckets missingActive frames for Vanish Ball, Pinwheel and Amagiya Buckets missingCircus Bear is not a projectile.Adachi:SB atom smasher is listed 3+3, should be 5+1 Recovery frames missingActive frames missingAttack levels missingIK frame data missingYosuke: Narukami: SB Issen listed as 1-16 projectile invul, should be 4-5Yukari:2C proration is incorrect5A frame advantage is incorrectYukiko:SB Agidyne doesn't have the full damage values for the held versions (it says 50 instead of 50*N like the C version)
  5. Yes, I mentioned the Golden Tager bit in an earlier post. I think it's useful in those "one chance" scenarios where you can slip out of a shitty situation without relying on meter/burst and you get the hit, or even guard cancel OD. There's also her new 6C/3C; something like 3C>ODc>6A>6C>5B>5C>3C>9D>236B>22B>G.Tager might be possible, who knows.. BUT, the problem is gunning for this approach requires holding back your meter AND burst usage which she can't normally afford (hell, even with as strong as she was in 1.1 I didn't get chances very often to rob people with Golden Tager). It's worth mentioning, but it's not that big of a game-changer that she simply kept this from 1.1. This is not entirely true, the issue with these is that 3C>5A has a lot of variance in terms of reliability. Mikami (@mikamijuku on twitter) documented it here: http://www.famitsu.com/cominy/?m=pc&a=page_fh_diary&target_c_diary_id=87619 The first part is basically a "tier list" on 3C>5A, with the top tier being the characters where doing 3C>5A works at "near max range" (Taokaka, Tager, Relius), and bottom tier not working at all (Ragna, Makoto). This means you can't just convert any ground hit into 3C>5A since it's character and spacing dependent. Crouch confirms are unaffected since she can go into 2C and even 2C>6C>5B, so there's that. To balance out all my gloom and doom, there's this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwXVJTd0CCg Some noteworthy things include double bunker combos that she can do mid-screen *or* in the corner after using gravitons, which buys enough time to recover 1 back (so summon->activate has a net cost of 1 as long as you avoid summoning a graviton for oki). Also, her midscreen G.Tager combo looks significantly easier.
  6. The new system is pretty atrocious overall, IMO. Having 9 normal summons or 4 Summon->Activate and 1 Summon queued up doesn't make up for all the underlying nerfs. Yes, the stock system means you can spam graviton back to back 9 times if needed, in a way that's a buff (since in theory you could get back gravitons with some of those 9 stocks). There's a bunch of issues though, like the total duration for graviton during the pulling phase has been reduced. I'd like to say it went from 300f->240f but I can't say for sure. The biggest nerf is that the recovery period "resets" if you don't let the stock count go up. This means if you didn't wait the cooldown period + 5 seconds (not sure on the numbers) and summon a graviton, you have to wait for another entire cooldown period + 5 seconds *again*. If anything it should be something like: - Do summon -> recall, Kokonoe waits (recall cooldown + 3 seconds) before doing summon -> activate - Kokonoe waits (activate cooldown + 2 seconds), stock count goes up Despite the "stock system" looking more simple at a glance the way is implemented makes meter management needlessly complicated now because one crucial aspect to her meter management is effectively hidden (the time left to recover a stock). You can't even tell if your graviton meter is in or out of the cooldown period now. Don't get me wrong, I'm still excited to try her, but I'm going to have to call it like it is.. the new system is pretty booty. I do think stuff like delayed activation is under-explored outside of combos and even during combos, so it's not like there isn't stuff to look forward to, there's just a good chance she'll be heavily outclassed this time around.
  7. Watching some of Matoi's more recent matches.. it seems she either needs a lot of optimization (which may not come until after console), or she just got bodied really hard. Her overall damage output seems to be significantly less. The change to 3C and 6C helps, it allows her to do meterless extensions to her combos, but anytime you go into 3C>5A the rest of the combo is pretty badly prorated. Normally you could make up for this by using gravitons to have better control of the neutral game and to get more damaging combo routes, but the new "stock" system for her gravitons is incredibly slow (it can't recharge "partially", if you consume a stock before it recovers the recharge timer resets). This means gravitons are pretty much always used very conservatively, since it's suicidal to not have gravitons at all when you need to use them defensively. Reading from twitter though, it seems she's retained some of the silly things she had in 1.1 like Golden Tager comeback combos, but this requires 100 meter + overdrive. Since she doesn't gain as much meter in 2.0 either, this will become significantly less common. Blackhole setups are still a thing, but apparently lost all invincibility, so it's only useful against characters whose reversal options cannot hit Kokonoe. In addition, the followup timing is completely different now, so her old 22B>3C route is gone. There may be new ways to set up the timing for the bonus OTG damage, but it's currently unknown. I'm still quite interested in trying her out myself but none of her match video footage is flattering, to be honest, haha
  8. BananaKun

    [Xrd] Elphelt Gameplay Discussion "The True Best Girl"

    The gist of it is that she has a lot of situational anti-airs but no true anti-air with frame 1 head invul like a traditional 6P or whatever. c.S's only weaknesses are the proximity trigger and lack of head invul frames. 5H is not really an anti-air, but it's an excellent tool for catching people trying to jump or otherwise coming down from around 5H's max range. It requires FD to block so at the very least it forces people to burn their meter. 2S I think is pretty amazing as long as you understand that it's not suitable for all situations and your aim is not always to hit. The opponent needs to be at a particular spot for you to actually anti-air people with it, but even if you don't connect with the move it's going to low profile a *lot* of aerial approaches (just understand you're not going to low profile something like a deep Ram/Leo j.K in front of you). You generally want to throw it out for early air attacks that don't have the active frames to go all the way to the ground or attacks that are close to crossing up (so doing a 2S will low profile and they will land on the other side and whiff even if they have additional active frames). When done right, the resulting whiff from the opponent generally leaves you in a favorable position, and depending on how early their attack was you can catch them on their landing frames and throw. Only 6H will cover the area above and in front of her, and while it's generally too slow, with YRC you can throw it out pre-emptively every now and then if you expect an IAD or something to that effect. If you notice it's going to whiff, YRC. Heck, if you have 25-49% tension, just OS it. It may seem expensive but the reward on CH is huge, and even without it you get a knockdown. 2H can low profile aerial approaches in many situations, but it's another move you generally want to have meter to YRC. By itself even if you can low profile something the recovery on whiff makes it very risky. If you can YRC it while you slide under somebody you can try and catch them in the air while they're whiffing something.
  9. BananaKun

    [P4AU] Shadow Labrys 2.0 Gameplay Discussion

    So for the CH DP>dash 2A+B>2C stuff: The idea would be to time dash 2A+B such that it forces the opponent to tech into 2C or eat a yellow-beat combo that combos into 2C. A meaty 2C is actually a pretty big deal now with possible FC, improved proration and bull cancels (as of 1.1). If they decide to tech into 2C, you could probably get something like 2A+B(whiff, begin charging back)>2C(block)>[4]6C>5A(block)>j.A for a command grab setup. You probably would have enough time to cross them up as well, and 2C as a starter seems to be much more attractive in 2.0. If they decide to eat the yellow-beat combo, depending on 2C's P2 you could get CH DP>dash 2A+B>2C hit>j.214A+B>oki if it's like 1.1, or if 2.0 proration is good enough, CH DP>dash 2A+B>2C hit>j.B>jc.A>j.214A>214C/D could be a thing. With or without the yellow-beat combo, new 2C should make it relatively easy to set up massive slaughter off CH DP, something she couldn't do reliably since P4U. It requires a little more effort, but that's pretty neat I think!
  10. BananaKun

    [P4AU] Shadow Labrys 2.0 Gameplay Discussion

    She's probably around the same. Most of the difficulty IMO comes from having good awareness of where the bull is, as well as knowing how to defend with him. Execution wise she doesn't have that much in the way of strict timing; probably the hardest (and necessary) things you would learn are double brutal impact combos that use D Public Execution to set it up, and that move has a lot of active frames so the window to time it correctly is quite large.. just need to find visual cues that you are comfortable with. Other things to consider are keeping back or even down charge while pressuring someone/being pressured in order to set up one of her command grabs. S.Lab may not be a true "charge" character but she definitely has chances to land these charge moves outside of specific setups. Some of her BnB's can take getting used to like 5AAA>Hop>j.2B, but this game lets you buffer inputs by holding them, which makes tight links a little easier.
  11. BananaKun

    [P4AU] Shadow Labrys 2.0 Gameplay Discussion

    Taken from twitter: These are minimum dmg values. It's technically not an "unlisted" nerf since min. damage reduction was specified for the whole cast, the specific values weren't known, however. C Punch - 720->720 D Punch - 780->780 SB Punch - 900->780 A Brutal - 900->780 B Brutal - 1350->1050 SB Brutal - 1800->1100 (!) Titanomachia Finish - 1020->900 Sucks for SB Brutal nerf, not like it was common (sometimes not even optimal) to use it, but doing 50 more damage is not worth it so the move is essentially removed from the game. The rest look fine considering it's supposed to be a change affecting the whole cast.
  12. BananaKun

    [P4AU] Shadow Labrys 2.0 Gameplay Discussion

    Titanomachia moves have always been separate from their normal counterparts, so they'll probably remain identical since the changelog didn't mention anything. They might have changed it anyway of course, but it would definitely be an unlisted change. 5C>Titanomachia should let you get a full combo, period. 2A>5B+C>Sweep>(5C hit)>Titanomachia>2B should be possible midscreen. In the corner you should be able to get followups as well, since you would be cancelling out your j.214A/B's recovery with Titanomachia. Corner crossups would probably be off special cancels, like 5C>236D as an ender, only you likely have to meaty the opponent yourself before the laser is ready. Another possibility is 5C>236C might come out in time for meaty timing, but it only provides you with enough time for a single jump mixup which is fine.
  13. BananaKun

    [P4AU] Shadow Labrys 2.0 Gameplay Discussion

    If it's anything like BBCP, j.BB/j.2B are part of a few moves that are not dependent on attack level.. these moves cause a special air state that shoots the opponent away to cause a wallbounce and have more untech time than a level 4 normal would usually have. Attack level would still affect the move's blockstun and hitstop though. Basically they could add (or remove) an arbitrary amount of untechable time to the move without obeying attack levels, so without specific numbers it'll sadly be shrouded in mystery for the time being. :X
  14. BananaKun

    [P4AU] Shadow Labrys 2.0 Gameplay Discussion

    I'm almost certain there will be some phantom nerfs/buffs that slipped by or were just omitted, ArcSys seems to do that without fail. :x If wallbounce itself actually got changed so that it doesn't add untechable time then that changes things. The issue is it'd be entirely up to how much untechable time was added. For example, 5AAA>Hop>j.2B wallbounces mid-screen right before you run out of untech time; if you added like 15-20 frames of untechable time you could follow it up as normal assuming wallbounce doesn't add any. Personally, the only reason I would add untechable time is to make some low proration j.2B uses easier: corner j.BB/j.2B obviously needs no help, and in fact the change might be addressing how its abused to get more untechable time at high proration. However, 5AAA>Hop>j.2B is still pretty early in a combo (you can even combo into Titanomachia even though it's hard), so added untechable time might just be helping these midscreen routes while slightly nerfing corner ones. I could be wrong of course, but it's the only way that this change makes sense to me; if it didn't help midscreen routes at all then adding untechable time wouldn't provide any tangible benefit. I wouldn't put too much weight on loketest reports unless it's from a reputable source/player. I remember early BBCP2 Kokonoe reports complaining about some routes not working anymore, but they still worked though they became a little harder D;