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  1. Anne

    [P4AU] Aigis Q&A Thread

    She's really not all that difficult, she just plays a bit different from everybody else and requires management. Learn the safejumps and the more basic BnBs and try to move around with her properly, if you can do that then you can go ahead and get rolling.
  2. My favorite part about putting info on character forums was that time we changed forum software and all information archived using outbound links got lost. We should probably move video archival to databases, move match use combos to wikis, etc. Slim down on the stickies and open up the forums to talking about shit and keep that information from being eaten by forums. The new wiki format works for this, Polka's way of going about it is more or less fine. Also the upkeep requirement by mods can be lessened enough so that you could redo the mod systems.
  3. Actually it's a bit different due to Carmine's jump origin. The normal rules of cross up protection should protect against a cross up based on jump origin(very simple way to think about it) until landing. He puts the projectile down on one side, goes to other, then jumps back over. Now the only way to block the projectile is from the original direction right? That's the similarity, it's based on the origin of the move. The difference is that Carmine jumps over and the cross up protection didn't "properly" interact with the projectile hitting based on Carmine's jump origin, and if he hits another button that would hit in the opposite direction of the projectile origin you have to block according to that button. It's a pretty unique case because Carmine doesn't have to land after the jump to create a left/right situation, similar to most other fighters without the level of cross up protect in UNI. The projectile origin interacting with Carmine's placement made the "normal" rules of cross up protection not apply in reference to his jump origin. You're right in saying the system change shouldn't affect mix up like Orie's, but it's worth noting the differences in this specific engine exploit and that measures were added to the game to prevent it. It's less about it being slow and more about that type of situation not occurring with her though. It's also worth pointing out that Orie using j.2C like this creates a situation that follows the "normal" rules of cross up protection, and its use as a left/right is fairly minimal in regards to the total situation it creates. It's fairly easy to deal with that aspect of it, especially in regards to the other types of situations that exist.
  4. So you block a j2C. Even if it's TKed, that's still a jump in? I've seen it a lot, I know it's good and why it's good. Like you said, it's just not what we're talking about and it's misleading to go on about it and use the left/right as the key point.
  5. I was under the impression the mix up was started by blocking a j.2C.
  6. Like I know you're arguing just to argue and make me upset, but I do need to clarify where you're wrong. There's a large difference between trying to create that cross up situation and protected airdash high/low. Can it be a left/right? Totally. Is it a left right 50/50 we were talking about, based on projectiles? No. Are you going to use those options like land 5B/3B in a left/right situation? No. Do the gaps in the strings leave practical room for mitigation using other options and fuzzy defense? Yes. Is the primary reason for that situation hitting based on the left/right mix up? No. Is it completely plausible to react to the air special based on her height after a period of time where the move connects? Yes. Is it a bad thing to do? No. Is it good? Yes. Is it good based on what you're saying? No. It's far more likely that somebody is going to block the jump in and then attempt to input a delayed option and get caught by the special move, and the variations between that and 2A are going to do that. The left/right in this scenario also works differently than in the projectile based set ups. It might catch some people sleeping as the left/right, but that's far less likely. We've been talking about left/right 50/50s using projectiles to beat cross up protection in a unique way, in ways that Carmine, Seth, Hilda do very often in the current game. Those are completely unreactable and more or less safe to defensive options we know about. The way those specific types of set ups work have been altered in UNIST and possibly DFCI (same dev, lots of similarities in the core). Edit: SKD basically filled in the gaps left by me and Tari and we had a fine discussion about it. I'd just read those again.
  7. Your point? There's a difference in timings there, it's simple. She can't really delay either, I mean all there is to it if she doesn't keep falling you hold 4, if she keeps falling you switch to 3. And again, that's not the type of situation we are describing. Edit: DFCI probably has the same cross up properties as UNIST considering how they were updated, it's just that is a different game with much different ways of dealing with it. I wouldn't call it too off topic if you understand better how it works in UNI from the discussion. Edit edit: I get why the Orie thing exist, and you don't actually fuzzy block it like that, but it's really not a left/right like that either. There are a few ways to mitigate it I believe and it's not super strong and is reactable as far as I can tell. It's def a much different situation than the ones were talking about mechanic regarding, it's unique in how it will hit you.
  8. You don't react, there's just a point where you can switch your guard and you'll be fine. Again, the delay makes that harder but optimally defending against is actually pretty simple. You're far more likely to get hit in that situation for other reasons than the left/right. It's a lot different than the 50/50 where somebody is jumping over you and they can do a really tight cross up without needing to land. You can in theory mitigate it with fuzzy guarding but that is really impractical with how it is now, but might be more practical with the change.
  9. You just hold 4 in that scenario, then switch to block the 2A when she'd be hitting the ground. It's very different. I understand the timing is weird because of the delay of the move but that's not the scenario we're talking about.
  10. If they did just add left/right autoguard for a number of frames along with the current cross up protect, that would explain what I've been seeing in DFCI, yeah. Would mean the idea would still work in UNI same as in DFCI, but it would be way easier to defend against and way more difficult to apply it as an actual mix up with how characters tend to do it, you'd just fuzzy it. If it does work like that you'd need to create a different type of situation than the tight puddle stuff Carmine was doing before. Idk enough about what Seth can do to comment on that.
  11. There's a bit more it with stuff like character facing and yeah. To cap it off about DFCI, I have seen some sick nasty cross up stuff, cross up protection is broken in every other game I see. I only wanna mention it because it all the traits of cross up protect in UNI were carried between DFC as far as I knew until they were updated. It would make sense considering the implications of how strong it is between games. Hmm, maybe DFCI has the same change and the game is just more flexible in how people are exploiting it? Cause it seems to still happen regularly.
  12. A technique exists in UNiEL involving projectiles. If you put a projectile on somebody, cross them up, then cross them back up, cross up protection breaks. If the defender stands up and walks backwards, cross up protection kicks back in, so the character jumping over whiffs a button to trigger proximity blocking so the defender can't walk and that stops that. The same thing exists in DFC, somebody calls an assist and jumps over you, then jumps back over and whiffs a button to break cross up protect and it's a left/right 50/50. It's pretty timing sensitive but is totally easy to do with the right set up. It's really just exploiting the way projectiles are coded to be blocked from what I understand, but it's really weird and murky. Carmine would just hit with his capture super, throw the delayed projectile on the ground, run to the other side of you, then jump back over you and it made it work. By making it so you can block facing forward for longer, it makes it hard to keep somebody from walking and gaining cross up protection while still creating that left/right mix up. I'm not even gonna consider looking at a full tier list unless I know the name of the player attached, and then it's a moment in time and it's just there to help ask more questions.
  13. Ah, that makes sense. I wonder how much worse the actual mix up is then.
  14. I was informed the left right nonsense was gone from some people who are usually right and keep up to this, and I haven't seen it even after the usual super set up, so I assumed they were correct. For all I know it could still exist and it's just been limited on how it could be set up? Or I could just be wrong. I remember around console launch I thought Hilda was garbage, and a lot of lists had her on lower mid, then after a few months she was upper mid or even pushing up into A tier, then she settled back down in upper mid. Her design is super linear and limited so her placement just ends up being meta dependent.
  15. I'm not entirely sure, I don't know enough Japanese to navigate arounf their side of the internet and find things. I just know some general stuff like Wald didn't change much so he moved slightly down, Hyde got better at being Hyde and he hit like a monster truck so he went up, Carmine shot up with all the damage and oki optimization, etc. Console release and the year or so span of time after gave people the chance to just get really good at situations and optimization. That and people just being better at neutral helped, it was funny how a year ago I thought "how do some characters fight these big buttons?" and now I'm seeing players so good at neutral they just blow through them. If you want a better answer I can ask around but that's a lot of effort for very little. I'm not too worried about the exact tier list personally, it's just easier to illustrate my point of things go past the surface level or the understandings of a period of time. There's also wonky things I'm not sure how they worked out. Like Vatista in theory land is contender for best character but in actual play she's so difficult and weird it's hard to back that up or explain why her winrates are so poor. We had that happen in Persona with SLab, thought she could be busted but she kept getting blown up, then BKen happened and suddenly 2 of the top players from Japan and America are pushing that character up. Also, the wording on saying Eltnum could be 3rd "depending on the MU" makes no sense. Character tier positions relate to the accumulation of their MUs vs the entire cast, not in a singular MU. The wording you used really confuses me.