Anne

Yeah, exactly what I mean when you say "users interacting with each other". The mods just watch users pick each other apart and squad up. That's really dumb, because the mods are failing the users who are outside the squad who can't be in the discussion on equal terms. Why do we need point systems? People already go full on e-peen here over the trophies, I don't want more people trying to justify what they're saying even more because they have some number or color next to their name. You should use your brain and listen to the person who is telling you correct things. If you don't know what the correct things are yet, you should really pay extra attention. I know we want to make it easier to figure out who to listen to, but I'd rather the forum be brought up to the point that's not a worry and try keep people as equal as possible.

I mean, the way it's kind of been spelled out to me is "don't believe anything you read on here unless it was said by a top player or somebody with a red name. Even then, be careful of the red names!" I mean I agree we should make it a posting environment where people will post regardless of skill level. Tbh I'd rather just kick out people who are proven wrong and keep being wrong after being corrected. Like, I get if somebody is new they might say some wrong things every once in awhile, but then you have people who are consistently wrong and will fight you to the death if you question it. If that's elitist so be it, but I mean more top players would probably wanna post if they could have a meaningful conversation easier, and more players would feel better to converse without having those other users overwhelm them. BB general was real bad about this and earned its reputation that way. If you said something the core of that thread had a problem with, you'd eat shit even if you were right, until our lord and savior top player came in and explained things. We should hold our users to a better standard on just a behavior basis whenever we rework mod policy. Tbh I'm proposing to curb user elitism at this point. Again, don't wanna speak for others, but I remember certain people trying to contribute to the conversation and then tearing their hair out because those users would dig into them.

I mean, why try to drag "top players" off twitter when they don't wanna be here? lol I get they know things but they're real people with real lives doing what they wanna do. I don't see a point in putting out candy to drag them here when we can just incorporate the things they already use into here. Like Nakkiel answers shit on twitter and askfm when he has time, I don't wanna speak for him but I know he works a lot and that's probably just easier for him to do. That's the gist I get from him anyways. The whole "let's rely on top players or super knowledgeable people" shtick is getting old. That's kind of what the site was doing with the mod system and it didn't go over well, so why do it again? Why not work on making it so we don't have to rely on some all seeing god players and try to bring the average quality of the forum up? Like I don't think one good player bringing down the wrath of god from time to time balances out the power users causing problems. I'd rather deal with making it so the users who are able to think for themselves have room to grow instead of getting caught in that cycle.

For the record, I don't think forums are dead. Forums do a unique thing twitter can't in condensing things down to common spaces, and it keeps stuff in a controlled environment(we can't moderate twitter) and it can still be sifted through pretty easily. But the tools we've gained through social media and other spaces as time went on do make parts of what we used forums for in the past redundant. I don't see why we don't let the forum and wiki focus on their individual strengths, while we also use some of those other tools. No point in competing with something that does it better. Forums are better to talk in long form about certain things in an organized manner, so I'd like to let that happen here. Twitter is good for passing things around quickly and directly, but it can't do much past that. Docs are good for housing information, but they get lost. Wikis exist purely to retain information and often house links so they don't get lost, so why not let it do that?

Hi, hello, gosh this is weird. So, I said this over in mod chat but I wanna move it over in here because I want the general users to see my thought process on this. A lot of it has to do with redundancy and why we made the rules more in line with "info dumping". So, we have these character subforums, right? They're pretty neat, they house all relevant information for a character. We have this wiki, right? It's pretty neat. It houses all the relevant informa- wait. Why do we need both of those things to do the same job? We need a video thread, several MU threads, a combo thread, a set up and oki thread, etc. I guess? When all of those things can be formatted and thrown into the wiki. Because discussion can happen there? Discussion rarely happens there, it's more info dumping. Discussion starts to happen there, the things that aren't added to the OP get buried and lost. Besides, a lot of that discussion happens elsewhere offsite, and can just happen in the character general thread anyways. We end up having to be strict and control the content in those boards because we don't want not so relevant things to bury anything useful. It's an issue that really compounds on itself. I honestly don't give a fuck if you want to talk about your waifu's feet, I just don't want you talking about it next to a thread that is supposed to teach all of my character's oki to the universe. So, with that being said, to be quite honest, social media does what the subforums are supposed to do, but it does it better. Evernotes and google docs exist that contain all of that information, reviewed by multiple players sometimes, are easier to read and work on, require less fiddling, and cut out a lot of the forum BS. Why not just take the link to the doc, throw it in the gen thread, discuss it there and spit out on the wiki once it's been decided? You wanna ask a question? People will just go find the ask FM account of the person they think is most fit to answer them, and they can ask it anon with no account, and usually get a better response because that person is more likely to look at twitter than Dustloop. I mean, twitter actually works better for sending short pieces of information because I can do it on my phone (without a 3rd party app or horrid format), and I'm already looking at other shit on twitter anyways. Hell, my phone has a little special ringtone for my twitter and ask that goes off. I get tagged with something with a link to a doc, I peep that doc and learn a thing, then go back to whatever I'm doing. I should probably put that info on the wiki at some point, but I mean I'll do that. The character forum never even needed to be part of the equation. From who I've talked to and what I've seen, a lot of users already work like this. I mean, I see it happening in real time on my twitter feed, I even grab Japanese docs I see pop up in their conversations and have people translate them. That works pretty well. So why have a huge info dump subforum as the middle man? We don't need it, a lot of stuff could just fit in single character threads like the UNI forum. That frees up some space and allows breathing room in the gen threads to have some more discussion that doesn't need to be super on point, because I won't have to dig through it later to find one thing, that thing will be on the wiki or in a doc linked somewhere(wiki pages will probably just have a "links" section with good docs crammed into it). I'd like the forums to be more of a place for discussion, for people to feel comfortable and talk, without them having to worry about putting what where and burying info or whatever. I know the wiki policy used to be "wiki is general info, forum is deeper info" but that didn't work out. Since the info dump in the forums needs to be preserved, discussion suffers as a consequence. I mean, the majority of users just wanna talk in the gen threads anyways because that's where talking happens instead of just raw ass info. I wanna try to propose an idea to make talking the focus of the forum and make info dumping the focus of the wiki. I don't want an off topic board, but I do want things to be more lax in threads. That's why I wanted to try the idea of the reddit style system or BBS system. Conversations can happen there pretty freely, be disposed of pretty freely, and shit can move around. If the forum can do that though, so be it. This also gives relief to the mod problem. There will be fewer mods without huge character subforums, and the mods that are left will have more power and can more easily manage things. It's hard dealing with the 100 head mod monster that fights itself. It also does put more impetus onto users to try and make conversation with others manageable, so I mean they'll need to be on point too. If somebody steps out of line or starts spouting bullshit, mods will need to be pretty strict and just hand out the infraction or ban. At the same time, if it's a not so serious issue, mods can probably gloss over it and pass it up instead of having to start putting the foot down in the thread. Anyways, yeah. I'm not saying we need to nuke everything, but it's really worth considering slimming down and focusing on talking, and moving the info dump elsewhere. I hear the idea of users wanting to talk, but it can't exist in the same place as all that information so we should just split them up. That way we can have a nice, good place to store info and the forums can be more about talking and way more open to that happening. The alternative is making Dustloop a raw info dump, no fun allowed zone and tell you to take anything else to social media. That's the direction things moved in, the users didn't like it and the site is now dying :v Edit: The forum upgraded but Kevin hasn't been able to finish formatting it and making it look nice. Be patient and it will be fixed at some point.

I don't think that many people use FB/twitter/docs over DL cause of any happenings here, I think they use it over DL because it's way easier and convenient. It's more or less why it became an info dump, because anything else people were better off talking about elsewhere, but evernote/google docs end up just making it easier to do that for people. I'll keep saying it over and over again, try to integrate the things people are already using or have a format that is more compatible and easier to use with those options.

Yeah those people either aren't mods anymore (like myself) or are around for other reasons than to directly moderate, or simply stopped doing stuff. When Kokonoe was revealed, the BBCP general thread had hundreds of posts that had nothing to do with the game, just how much people loved their waifu. Any actual news or useful information was buried under hundreds of posts like that, even though it was clearly expressed posts like that didn't belong there. Circ woke up and cleaned up almost all of it as tons of people were saying "holy shit the thread is unusable now" and it sucked. It kept happening, we tried to let "hype" threads be made so people could have their fun, but they wouldn't use those, still posting in the gen thread. We actually had a lot of trouble getting people to post outside of general threads. I remember I made a tier list thread for Xrd because the discussion took over the gen thread and people were pissed I had the nerve to say "hey, make a thread for this particular discussion, it works better." Again, people get rooted in doing things with the gen threads and don't wanna move ou tof them and yeah, it gets messy :/ It's one fo the motivations behind the BBS or reddit style board I believe, because people just wanted to post in the big loud thread they'd get more responses in. Same issue as before, just highlighting examples of when it actually happened. Our infraction system actually works like that atm, it's just never used as such.

Needs more moderation. Best cases came from just using moderation tools, eating a nasty PM or two, then letting them stop posting or fix it. I'd wager 90% of the time I would do this it would work. My mistake came in just wanting to go in threads and try to steer things a bit, but I was worried if I kept just handing out infractions it would kill half the site after some users just bailed after receiving only one. Bans are really rare here outside of extreme cases. Also yeah, it sucks when people get treated like children, but some users act like children and they get treated as such. I should've dealt with that more privately, but again, the hope was the better users would see us say something and steer it back on track. A lot of that came from moderation nightmares tbh. Remember the night Kokonoe was revealed? Holy shit, I thought Circ had died cleaning that mess up, he made a statement, "hey, don't let that happen again." It happened again, and again, and again. We should've just banned the people who were doing it tbh, but we didn't because, um, they were the entire forum. We eventually gave and just made the hype threads for people to bust their bullshit into, and even then people failed to use those. At that point it was almost a unanimous "fuck this, let em run into the ground" and that's what happened up until the revamp idea happened. So yeah, I feel like I made missteps and should've just used mod tools and be way harder on repeat offenders, but that wasn't how things went here at the time. Should probably be way stricter on some things but lax on others instead of the weird wishy washy middle ground. Edit: At the same time, again, figure out what we want now, the user idea of dustloop or the mod/admin/whatever idea of it. On the topic of moderators being replaced, again, reformatting the forum so less mods are needed is the most obvious solution.

I'm sorry dude, but handling users like yourself and a lot of the grouped up people in the BB forum is actually a moderation nightmare and there's no clear answer to it. My approach worked for a lot of other users and was a direct reaction to seeing "oh no BB general thread LOL" on my twitter feed. I think the direction you want and the direction those around you want are in conflict with what the site was intended to do. So what do you do? We can let the users have the site they want at the price of losing out on the site's usefulness, or we can can drop the boot and be stern when it comes time to tell people they need to stop. It's not gonna change unless there's a change in direction because those are the only really two ideas left and they are in direct conflict with each other. I'd rather not see the forum become the next SRK or god forbid TYM, but if that's what the users want then Idk what to say. My goal wasn't to make the small group of users here happy, it was to make the forum not be a joke to learn with. A lot of people worked hard after me to attempt to make things work and all those people ran into the same problem, and a lot of them gave up. They were too frustrated with the groups here wanting to focus on the social aspect (while the rest of the community was busy moving towards twitter) and make this their turf really. I know we're on a "be respectful to others" kick and I don't want to be the one to end that, but you were directly responsible for things like "Decent at Best" and have contributed a fair share of headaches to the moderation team. I don't handle a lot of things very well, but having been around a few different sides of the FGC forums/sites/communities I at least see how things are working out. I left DL as a result of these conflicts and look, nothing got better and some things got even worse. Other people who were really helpful to the site found themselves in the same boat and quit or stopped working too. PS there A LOT of people who don't post often, but use/read the forum and don't post because of the groups of people doing this. I listened to a lot of that and hey they started working with the forum and doing good things when some of that was squashed in the butt. Trade off is I pissed a bunch of you off in the process. I'd take that trade off again tbh.

Look, mac does his job, but he also wanted to let it rock in a different direction. I had 90% of people telling me everyday that there were groups of users posting misinformation in the threads. I used to go in and try to correct them or say "hey, get back on topic" and then a page later it'd be worse, or I'd say "hey this is wrong" and 20 people would tell me I was wrong until there was a discussion and some lord and savior top player came in and corrected everything lol I peep the threads every now and then and the BB general stuff is still pretty bad a lot of the time, mac just lets it rock to let the few remaining people here be happy. What the few people who are still here want is really unhealthy for the forum though, as evidenced by the conversation we're having now. There are a lot more things to go off that, but seriously, I can just be blunt. One of the "elitist" problems came from users who felt they were above mods and decided to get in fights with mods when anything happened. Some people took it far too, because I was so active I was receiving death threats over Dustloop stuff in my PSN and social media inboxes. Like I said, the whole social dichotomy here is a mess and it's one of the reasons I'm in favor of scrapping shit. It's really hard to undo once it's set. There's no pleasing users who think they know better than mods, there's no making mods look good while trying to stop that from happening. I think it's smart for mac to just let it rock because there's really no saving threads from the power users that are going to overwhelm it and shit on mod intervention. There's no point to because those are the only people left on the site for the most part. It's one of the reasons I'm interested in scaling back mod power and presence anyways, to see what will happen when it's up to users to moderate each other. Edit: and FYI I'm in favor of heavy moderation I see in other forums. It has its drawbacks, but it stops users who threaten to disrupt the goal of the forum from spreading around. The goal of Dustloop for some time was to have a site with accurate information somebody could use to learn and play and get better. Over the years the users moved in and more or less directly opposed that. So what's gonna give, the sites goal or the really loud users? Just say fuck it and reach a compromise and restructure shit, or go somewhere else.

I mean, you can go ahead and name me. I know I had problems with people not liking how I was doing things. I don't work here anymore, it's whatevs. Some of the "oppressed" people in all honesty needed to be oppressed if we were doing the whole "accurate" info thing. Groups of users kind of formed around the netplay general threads and whatever that all were sharing misinformation based on stagnating at whatever skill level they were. Those groups would see a new player, invite them in, and teach them based on misconceptions of their own skill level. That sucks. It also sucks trying to correct it because nobody likes to be the party pooper, but I mean Idk what else to do. You shut that discussion down and try to veer it back on topic, and that group of users bunches up and tries to push back. It's a lose-lose if you're the moderator. It's really weird. If the site was so open to, um, off topic and poor teaching before and it had the boot slammed into it, that explains why people push back. At the same time if you let that rock, the site becomes really toxic and poor and spreads horrid things. That's the comparison to GFaqs, GFaqs has that problem unmoderated and yeah. That's what it'd look like here with no intervention. So I mean, I dunno. If people didn't like me I'm sorry, but I was told this was a place to teach and learn, make sure people can use it well. I didn't want the site to be filled with low-mid level players spreading horrifying things. I remember coming here when I was starting and learning things, then I ran into high level players and it turned out everything here was horrid and I had to unlearn a lot of it. I, uh, I don't want that to happen. You approached it in a friendly manner, and it was like "lol, that's fine, I think you're wrong and listen to me though" so then the boot came down to say "no, seriously, stop." I'm pretty sure due to interactions like that the rules became so hostile. Maybe if users were more open to moderation and moderators were nicer it'd help? It wasn't a 2 way street when I was here, and it was really on certain power users who decided they should be heard more while the actual mods just didn't do shit. Anyway you cut it, it's lose-lose unless the entire direction of the site changes. Mods need to be more active and helpful, but users need to be open to moderation and, well, being told their wrong sometimes and accepting it. I fell like it's less "mods vs users" and more "mods vs /power/ users" and that made everybody look bad. The average user I would say "hey stop that" and they'd stop it before I had to get rude. It also didn't help when I'd say "hey, don't use language like that" and I'd get a "well back in my day we called all women ****s so fuck you" in response.

Yeah, the style or reformatting is something that would be open to debate. The good thing about a reddit or BBS style is the posters and users will actually have more tools to curate themselves without relying on mods. For example if somebody makes a horrid post, it can just be downvoted and ignored rather than call a mod or have people try to correct it. We should be thinking of how to make moderation less of a necessity and opening the board up to have discussion keep moving through it. Edit: and on the subject of tools, again, we have redundancy. We have these amazing and easy to use match databases, but we still update video threads. Why???

Forum layout is way too diluted. For the sake of organization it's supremely well organized, but with so many boards and discussion spread like that it can be real dead real fast. It meets the needs of information archival, and if that's all we want then fine, well enough, but it makes the board look dead and chunks up discussion. A large majority of discussion takes place in the general boards anyways, that's where people actually talk instead of just post info. And why do we need these boards to archive information when we have a wiki? That doesn't make much sense to me to have these crazy organized character boards when anything relevant out of them we can direct to the easier to read and navigate wikis. It also makes it so we need so many staff to do anything with the forum format. With so many different boards and so much clerical work needed, that means you need a lot of people. Dustloop has like what, 100+ staff members? That's ludicrous, and 90% of them do the basic clerical work and then become useless and disappear. The most active mods are the super mods and the mods that have some control over a general subforum. For our community's needs the forum layout is insanely overkill and redundant. With social media tools the way they are and all the other options we have, I don't think we need it. We can sum up a large amount of the subforum work on a single google document, that can be edited into a wiki, and the subforum would be dead. Why not have just larger boards that are far less dead and less intimidating for new people to dip into, and let the character work happen through smaller threads using better tools than the forum layout. Circ is playing around with the idea of a reddit style board. It's a worthwhile experiment to see how the flow of things would work in an easier space, and it can be (I think Circ hasn't fixed it yet) integrated into social media super easily. Problem is nobody atm is using it. Again, it's an experiment just to see how alternate solutions to the traditional forum layout would work so go at least play with it. Note, this board isn't for info dumping. Info should be put there, but whatever info is dumped there needs to be reviewed by players and then formatted over into the wiki. https://dustloop.herokuapp.com/(note it is unfinished and some thigns don't work but at least play with it and break it, then it gets fixed and we play with it some more). Edit: mods are mean btw because unless you're blunt and enforce things everything falls to shit. You need nice mods and mods that are willing to be rude to make sure things stay okay. I may be a mean butt, but after not being here and coming back some threads are /hilarious/.

Honestly, just nuke the current forum and make "new" Dustloop. This place has a bad reputation. Nobody wants to post here, every thread is the same few people basically trying to run things themselves. The staff team is super bloated and needs to be completely redone. There are a lot of problems with how the forums have been laid out over the years. Like, it'd be easier/more effective to just archive the whole forum and redesign and relaunch the site than it would be to fix it. The only thing really worth keeping up is the wiki. I don't believe the current set up works anyways so you'd have to change that anyways

When browsing the Shadow Labrys forums, please follow Dustloop's rules. Failure to do so will result in an infraction. If you do not know the rules you can check them here -> Site Rules. If you'd like to contribute, please feel free to do so! Just link the video along with the time that Shadow Labrys appears in the video, and I'll update this post with that video. If a suitable title for the video is available, please include it when linking the video.Please refrain from going off topic in this thread. This thread is for posting of videos only. Notable PlayersBB Twitter: @BB02A Nerina Twitter: @MajinNerina Sorashido Twitter: @sorashido0 BananaKen (Jose, Joes, etc.) Twitter: @BananaKen | Ask: BananaKen Misc Videos Collapsed: Tutorial Videos: Will be linked from BK's channel ASAP! Collapsed: Combo Videos: Coming soon! Match Videos Vs. - Vs. [07/20/2014] BB (S. Lab) vs. Nagi (Aigis) (LLAKB Arc Revo Area Qualifier) Vs. [07/20/2014] BB (S. Lab) vs. Domi (Aki) (LLAKB Arc Revo Area Qualifier) Vs. [07/06/2014] BB vs. Kirisame (S. Chie) (Square 1 Musako Arc Revo Qualifier) [12/31/2014] BB (S. Lab) vs. Tetsu (Chie) (Shinjuku Sportsland 5v5) Vs. - Vs. - Vs. [11/28/2013]???(SL) vs S-Kanji [11/30/2013]???(SL) vs S-Kanji Vs. [07/29/2014] Nerina (S. Lab) vs. Purepure (Labrys) Part Two Part Three Vs. - Vs. - Vs. - Vs. [11/30/2013]???(SL) vs Mitsuru Vs. [11/30/2013]???(SL) vs Naoto Vs. - Vs. - Vs. [05/03/2015] BB (S. Lab) vs. Souji (Kuma) (KSB P4AU Losers Semi-Finals) Vs. [11/30/2013]???(SL) vs Yosuke Vs. [06/28/2014]Ritori (S. Lab) vs. Narukami (CW Arc Revo Qualifer) Vs. [11/28/2013]???(SL) vs Yukari Vs. [11/30/2013]???(SL) vs Yukiko

Same as the old thread, just for P4U2. Talk about all things Aigis, keep it gameplay related, and remember to follow site rules. Final Change ListBoosting and performing Orgia actions consumes noticeably less gaugeNew move j.2C: Looks like 5C but is in the airNew move 2C: Large anti air move on the gorund, FatalsNew move air roll: Aigis does a roll in the air, consume some orgia gaugeNew super Orion: air command grab super. Flies forward and grabs.Hover input changed to 2A+B in the air.Proration nerf on Megido, looks to have slightly lower damage in combos but still relatively high damage.Megido is more negative on block.New autocombo. 5A > tiger knee > air gun > air mortar > shield super214A/B can now be performed in the airProjectile invuln added to Pandora missilej.C has far less untech time on Counter Hitj.B > j.B combos on crouching.Can boost twice, boost from the ground then boost again in the air.More to come as it is confirmed. v1.1 changes AIGIS Furious Action - Blow-off on a counter hit has been changed and the opponent can now tech from it Radical Cannon - Now explodes only when you release the button Orion - Now also catches the opponents standing on the ground Heavenly Spear - SB-version damage nerfed - Attack now starts after the screen blackout

The situation to go into them just doesn't happen all that much to be honest.

If I ran into one of you people today GGs.

I'm just going to point out I won a UNiEL GF because I noticed my opponent dropped a DP input in a high pressure situation and it put him on tilt, so I did a pretty tight DP check and he dropped it again and I started running meatie (read: hard to DP) high reward pressure knowing he'd fold, and he did, and I won. Dude's been playing fighters since pre SF4 days and is strong and doesn't just drop shit, but people do fail execution checks sometimes and you gotta go off that. Hell, Justin vs Daigo in moment 37 was Justin just execution checking Daigo on something that would require huge precision in extreme pressure on a reaction. Daigo obviously passed and made a moment out of it, but it didn't make the decision exactly wrong on Justin's part based on the situation. Just saying it's not black and white. Sometimes the read is "this guy is on tilt, I can check him or go for some shit" in situations where the risk isn't explosive. Sometimes this gets you a huge advantage and momentum swing, sometimes you get checked for it. Fighting Games are cool like that. I will say at that point it's less "I hope he drops his input" and more "I'm pretty certain he won't execute on this". I just want to point out it's not unreasonable to have the type of read that's less concrete than "reversal/not reversal" and to make something out of it. It does, because the tighter it is the more willing I am to check it. I'm not reversal checking somebody in fucking Persona. 214214 and B+D motions into instant death NOPE.

If it's not about fighting games I don't want it to be here. It just means more shit for to mess with that didn't even need to be here in the first place.

I use the ASUS VH236H. The old Evo mointor. Pretty self explanatory, pretty cheap and solid, but they aren't manufactured anymore.

I need to have a long talk with you about your everything.

As you can see, we have balls now.

Yeah, its AUB and hits standing opponents now. Players are actually frame trapping with it now because of the delay, and it catches fuzzy jump super hard.

Shit sucks, but all this means is we actually have a chance at doing better. Still rockin' it.