Magaki

Here's a new shotgun loop that I found allowing to get even more damage than what we currently have. If you're still beginning with Elphelt, don't bother reading this post and simply leave it for later as the new loop can be quite hard to do and requires understanding how the current shotgun loops work. The "Currently known loops" section can pretty much be considered to be a shotgun loop guide however so you might want to read it. Currently known loops: Skip this part if you already know them all. Otherwise, if you forgot, never heard of some of them or simply want to see their respective applications, feel free to read it. [collapse] Any damage listed here is done on Sol at full health and SG-D corner combos will be used to compare them because every shotgun loop can be done off it. Obviously, every shotgun loops are corner only. Standard shotgun loop: [Powered SG-H>46H]xN>SG-S[sG-H>46H]xN Example: SG-D>Powered SG-S>[Powered SG-H>46H]x2>SG-S[sG-H>46H]x3 (188 dmg) The standard shotgun loop is the most consistent and most versatile loop but also the least damaging. It can be done off SG-D, Dust, Bridal RC, Berry, 2H/6H/air bridal CH, SG-H and jD RC combos. It's also the easiest loop and the only one you can use at the end of long combos. Walk shotgun loop: [Walk>Powered SG-H>46H]xN>SG-S[sG-H>46H]xN Example: SG-D>[Walk>Powered SG-H>46H]x4>SG-S[sG-H>46H]x3 (225 dmg) A loop that was found a few days after the game was released called this way due to the fact that you will walk forward a bit every time you loop Powered SG-H in order to get as much of them as possible by negating the pushback slightly. This variation allows to not use SG-S and get 2 more powered shot for ridiculous damage. While SG-D starter deals 44% health with standard shotgun loop, it does 53% with the walk shotgun loop. This loop can generally be done whenever you land a charged SG-H as long as the combo isn't too long which makes it applicable in most situations where you can go into standard shotgun loop except berry combos(...>2H>236P>cS>etc). Because of that, it's generally the main loop you will want to use. Berry shotgun loop: 236P>Powered SG-S>[Powered SG-H>46H]x2>SG-S>2P>Explosion>Powered SG-S>[Powered SG-H>46H]x2>SG-S>[sG-H>46H]x3 Example:SG-D>236P>Powered SG-S>[Powered SG-H>46H]x2>SG-S>2P>Explosion>Powered SG-S>[Powered SG-H>46H]x2>SG-S>[sG-H>46H]x3 (219 dmg) The berry loop was found much later and requires using the berry and the explosion mid-combo. Like you can see however, despite being much longer than the walk shotgun loop, it deals slighly less damage. The main reason is because aside from the 3 SG-S used in the combo, it also uses the berry and the toss itself does 0 damage which affects the risc gauge too. Amongst the loops however, it can only be applied off anything with a wall splat. Namely, 5D, SG-D and SG-H CH and can't be done if the berry is already out. The main reason why it's used however is because it's much easier than the walk shotgun loop and deal slightly less damage so it's great for beginners or simply if you want to be sure you won't drop your combo if you're in a tournament. It's much better to stick with walk shotgun loop however because you can apply it in much more situations and getting used to berry shotgun loop means you will use the standard loop if you can't grab a berry. [/collapse] New loop: This section explains the new loop I found, how to pull it off and compare it to the other known loops. [collapse] Same stuff as before. Damaged based on Sol with full health and SG-D combos used to compare. SG-S link loop: [Walk>Powered SG-H>46H]xN>delay>Powered SG-S>[Walk>Powered SG-H>46H]xN>SG-S[sG-H>46H]xN Example: SG-D>Powered SG-S[Powered SG-H>46H]x2>delay>Powered SG-S>[Walk>Powered SG-H>46H]x3>SG-S[sG-H>46H]x3 (237 dmg) (You can omit the first Powered SG-S and go straight into walk shotgun loop with 2 shots but it's much harder and only deal 1 more point of damage.) The SG-S link loop is a variant of the walk shotgun loop that consists of linking a Powered SG-S after a Powered SG-H and go straight into walk shotgun loop. It's currently the most damaging loop and is applicable for any situation where landing a Powered SG-H in the corner is possible which means it can be used in every situation where a standard shotgun loop is possible but the combo has to be short. I'll explain more below. Tips to pull it off: You have to input the SG-S as soon as you get the power-up and obviously after a Powered SG-H. Walk after the SG-S link is completely optional and shouldn't really affect the amount of SG-H you can squeeze that much. The loop is also universal so you can use whoever you want as a training dummy. Applications: The SG-S link is already tight with no hitstun decay and becomes impossible after a certain amount of time. In the SG-D combo used as example, the SG-S link can only be done after the second Powered SG-H. Doing it after a third one will make it whiff. It can be used as it is with moves that go straight into shotgun loop like: -5D, SG-D and SG-H -2H(1), 6H, Air bridal CH It can also be used in several combos like 2D>214K RC (generally done to beat fuzzy jumps which is an option a lot of people will use to avoid most of her mixups). An example would be: Standard shotgun loop: 2D>214K RC>dash 236H>[Powered SG-H>46H]x2>SG-S>[sG-H>46H]x3 (221 dmg) SG-S link loop: 2D>214K RC>dash 236H>[Powered SG-H>46H]x2>delay>Powered SG-S>[Walk>Powered SG-H>46H]x3>SG-S>[sG-H>46H]x3 (268 dmg) Damage comparison: SG-D>standard loop (188 dmg) (44% total health) SG-D>Walk loop (225 dmg) (53% total health) SG-D>berry loop (219 dmg) (52% total health) SG-D>SG-S link loop (237 dmg) (56% total health) [/collapse]

Adding a SG-S before the berry throw is much more stable yeah. To be more specific, do SG-S>delay 2P and it will work on the whole cast.

Everything is explained in the wiki and it should be where everyone beginning to learn her should start. As for the rapid fire, her aiming the shotgun is AFTER she enters the power-up. What allow you to figure out whether you're in power-up or not is the orange aura. Though, with walk shotgun loops, you have to do it so fast that you can't or barely can see the aura. Start with this beginner-friendly combo to learn the shotgun loops: Corner SG-D>delay>Powered SG-S>{Powered SG-H>46H}x2>SG-S>{SG-H>46H}x3 Does around ~40% damage alone

Try to do everything as fast as possible to make sure it's not floatier than it should be. Try also to hit with 2H with the character as close to the ground as possible. Delaying slightly your dash or the 2H should do the trick.

Okay, let's stop that useless arguement once and for all. First, 2S starter ? What ? Did you even try to understand the system mechanics before saying anything ? Obviously 2S non-CH from max range will whiff but if you're asking for the consistency, then you're talking about 2S>214K comboing. Which still means that you have no clue about how combos work in GG. Like it is mentionned HERE, combos are completely based on HITCOUNTS and proration or RISC or anything like that ONLY affects DAMAGE. THAT'S WHY I directly wrote in the wiki's okizeme section that combos leading to the UB loop requires a very short combo on the ground otherwise they won't work anymore. Truth being told, yes there is hitstun decay in GG based on a timer and it has always been the case since GGXX but it has always been completely minor compared to pushback and gravity and only ever concerned one character in a specific stance due to his huge untechable time and long combos: Zappa with Raoh. For the counter hit extending hitstun, it actually came from a silly rumor before Xrd was out that MORTAL counters extended combos and were like Fatals in BB or P4A. Obviously, that's not the case at all. Either way, it's good that you apologized for bringing misinformations in this thread concerning red beat combos but you're supposed to check your sources BEFORE posting The only thing you're doing right now is confusing newbies and starting useless arguements. Like it is mentionned in the RULES: Being a giant whiny crybaby or otherwise being insufferable about something stupid will get you banned because frankly, nobody wants to listen to you complain. Likewise goes for being thickheaded or making massive jumps to conclusions about shit. Don't try to make informed posts about something you are not informed about. That means, if you are a scrub, don't try and suggest strategies unless you've got someone/something serious to back them up. If you haven't even played a game, don't try to comment on it about anything. Questions are fine, spreading bad information or other stupidity is not. And finally in the For Moderators section: Misinformation is a big problem lately. Stupid posts by stupid players should be corrected at minimum. Players who are repeatedly stupid can have their posts deleted or put up for a ban. Second, Just what ? You start posting about a combo "sucking" and says that it cannot be done consistently on Sol and you expect people to treat you nicely ? They aren't "shitting on you", they are explaining to everyone reading this forum that you're spreading misinformations and starting a useless arguement. True, you admitted that it was your fault but then you ask people to directly tell you how consistent they are with an irrelevant starter and spread MORE misinformations ? And what are you gonna do by learning how consistent someone is with a combo ? Will it magically improve your execution ? And even if it did, what does your execution or his consistency have to do with THIS combo thread ? I don't think I need to explain why personal requests like that should be done in PM for obvious reasons. Either way, this arguement is closed. If anyone ever bother bitching, spreading more misinformations or even joke about anything related to that, I'll simply delete your post and infract you right away.

Don't forget to link any comedy gold lines here guys o/ Don't really mind them though. From what I saw in the main and tier discussion thread, most people there don't really know what they are talking about. Anyway, new tech I mentionned in the skype group but forgot to explain here: jD's YRC window is silly. Generally, for a normal, the general rule is that you got an YRC window that goes from startup to part of the active frames. There are exceptions however and jD is one of them. In a silly way. The YRC window concerns the startup, active frames AND recovery frames all the way up to the landing recovery. To be more specific, if you do jD, you can YRC at any point in the air. If you land and YRC, it will be a PRC. Why it's useful is actually because jD without tension is a big commitment due to the huge recovery that makes up for the great hitbox. If you got 25 tension however, it becomes an option with almost no risk kinda like 5H YRC.

You have video footages and in-depth explanation showing you that yes, it works. If you still somehow fail to do it correctly, then it's obviously because you didn't grind it enough. Like I said and Spring mentionned, this combo is far from being easy but it's also the most rewarding both for corner carry AND damage which means that if you want to get the most out of any confirm, that's what you will plan to do. Now, the real question would rather be, if that combo is so hard to do, would you risk using it in a tournament or not ? Personally, I will. The choice is up to you really. Nothing wrong with deciding to go with easier combos that you won't drop rather than a hard one that might result in you getting punished for it.

Sharon (EL) vs various characters Sharon playing again. Unfortunately, the level is somehow lower than the previous video with Ogawa. You can notice that Sharon tried to do a new combo (yeah he dropped) that was found lately by japaneses. Here's the combo uploaded by Alioune. For more information concerning the combo, check the second part of this post.

2S got 6 active frames and 15 recovery for a total of 21 frame recovery if the first active frame is blocked which is -7 frame advantage. Pineberry got 19 recovery so 2S>236P should be -5 on block. -4 on standing hit and -3 on crouching hit.

Like I explained here, berry juggles seem to be character specifics and I didn't test them yet on the whole cast. Just use an universal combo like this one instead: 214K/5H(x5)>RC>dash 2H>cS>jS>djK>jS>delay jH>delay jD>(236P) Only character that can be annoying to combo with is Faust because you need a very specific positioning to make both hits of 2H touch him. I'll test the berry juggles (and finish the combo thread) once I'll have more free time though IIRC, it worked fine on Elphelt. Might be possible that you're not dashing enough before inputting 2H or delaying the air normals too much. ------------------------------------------------------------ New japanese combo used by Sharon and discovered before by Alioune while spectating some Elphelt japanese matches. For people who don't want to watch it: 2S>214K RC>dash 2H>236P>cS>jS>djK>jS>jH>j4P>6H>236H>Powered SG-S>Powered SG-H>SG-S>SG-H>(236P) Probably Elphelt's hardest combo. You have to delay the jH, use j4P exactly before you land, press 6H with the right timing to hit them, immediately cancel into shotgun, be in power-up and hit with the tippity-tip of SG-S. Allows her to get around 45-50% damage and corner carry from 3/4 of the screen so it's by far Elphelt's best combo midscreen. I didn't test yet whether it was character specific or not. It also looks like hit counts doesn't really affect the combo that much so you can add a few things before the 214K RC to get even more damage. Again, I'll test it and post my conclusions when I'll have more time.

Sharon(EL) vs Ogawa(ZT) For people who don't know, Sharon is considered to be the best Baiken player and the GG player who won the most japanese tournaments during GGX and GGXX. Despite a few highly debatable choices he does here and there, he's clearly the best Elphelt at the moment and I recommend everyone to watch it.

This tweet doesn't make any sense. What does jumping out of it with 1f timing would mean ? Considering that holding either 7,8 or 9 will make you jump on the first frame, there is no need to point it out. Maybe for a high jump ? But in that case, why wouldn't it be specified ? If you honestly have troubles believing that IB>UB shot is still airtight, here's a proof that was made by Alioune a while ago. Look closely at the inputs. You will notice I-no doesn't get a CH at all despite pressing S. If you still can't believe it and think you're doing the setup properly but can't hit during blockstun, tell me on who exactly you're trying it out and I'll check it again. Might be possible that I overlooked it when I tested UB setups on everyone. As for what LK wrote, he's overlooking a lot of options Elphelt have. For the fS>2H tech, the whole active frames cover 9 frames in total. Unless you play Potemkin or Slayer, I highly doubt you can rely on backdash against 2H. And if you get hit by 2H during your backdash, you can go straight for cS and deal great damage. Then you also have to take into account cancels into 236P, 236H or Bridal/air bridal etc. For Shotgun stance pressure, the whole point of shotgun stance in pressure is SG-P stagger. If you mash, it's true that you will eat a SG-P CH yeah. But this will make the second SG-P combo and allow the Elphelt player to hitconfirm it and go for SG-PxN>SG-H for average midscreen damage. If you got 50 tension, you can go into a big combo considering that SG-P don't prorate. And if you take into account SG-P stagger's great tension gain, the chances that it's what you're gonna eat is quite high. Better to take less risks and FD jump instead of mashing really. Also, who even is Icesword19xx ? Is that a famous player or another random jBBS poster ?

After checking it, yeah it's possible to tech out of it with lighter characters. Thanks for pointing it out.

Nothing really. It's quite basic. Maybe you're doing the dash way too soon ? Do SG-S>2P when you throw the berry instead of just 2P for slightly more damage. For the conversion into unblockable, you will want to do dash 5P>(5P)>cS and you will get the right height. Going into an air combo from shotgun loop though is pointless. You will obviously deal less damage than the shotgun loop itself and if you looped a lot before going for the air combo, the hitstun decay will be too important and they will air tech. Only reason why you would really want to go for air combo ender would be for a jD>j236P ender. However, SG-S is fully untechable on air hit and make them float quite a bit so SG-S>236P gives you more time to do whatever you might want to do.

Try to add shotgun pressure in your game. Should make your oki much harder to deal with. You got everything about what you can do with it on the wiki already. As for 236P, 6H>236P is mostly something you use in neutral or if the opponent is in the corner to prevent jump out. During pressure, cancelling into 236P is mostly something you do if the opponent respects you. Generally, the best choice is to do fS>236P. Why fS ? That's because 2P toss is -3. The further you are, the better it is in terms of frame advantage. That's also one of the reason why 2H>236P isn't really a great choice though, using it once in a while isn't a bad idea. The fact however that they mash after 2H means that you barely or never use 2H>236H. 2H>236H>SG-P is actually gapless and 2H>236H is minimum +3. Make sure to add that in your game !

Exactly. After a throw RC in the corner (or near the corner), you can do throw RC>dash 2H>cS and go for unblockable loops yeah.

It's actually a really interesting point that I wondered before and also something that Zeero explained in his last post. Based on kedako's frame data, the toss itself is a level 0 attack. Basically, same hitstun as a jab. If you consider that you need a lot of frames to get the unblockable shot, there is no way you can land it during the toss' blockstun but you still can somehow. Kind of a situation where theorically it shouldn't work but it actually does. Most likely explanation would be that hitstop actually is taken into account. In that case, the hitstop AND the blockstun of the toss would explain why you can shoot during the toss' blockstun. Another explanation would be that the game might start getting the power-up while the opponent is waking up at a very specific frame. Would also explain why you can get the unblockable shot during the toss' blockstun but to test that, you would need to test numerous unblockable setups against different characters with a video capture card and count everytime the frames required to get the unblockable shot. A real pain I would say. Also, my point Zeero is that you have more than enough time with the unblockable setups to do land 2P>236S and recover from rifle stance way before they finish waking up. Though, I consider that execution is a very important point and a requirement to be a solid player so I'm obviously quite biased here and you might be right that going for IB>backdash is far from being as bad as I make it look like (For some characters, without tension, it's your only option anyway). For anyone else reading this debate, please don't consider that what I'm saying should be the truth solely because I'm using intermediate-high level of plays to back up my claims and just believe in what you consider to be the most likely opinion. Generally, you will be able to always recover in time before the explosion with a wake-up backdash. Thing however is that the toss will hit you as soon as the invul frames run out which means >unblockable shot>explosion and the loop keeps going. Only point I know where a character can be too high guaranteed to stop the loop is Slayer who can do backdash high jump cancel. Unblockable shot will hit him but he will be too high for the explosion to touch him ending the loop. Obviously, it's only possible because of the invul frames that allow him to get hit quite high.

Here you go ! More informations for people who never heard of it before: -Walk shotgun loop is generally the best way to maximize damage for corner combos and generally add something like 20% more damage. -Try to keep the combo leading into the walk shotgun loop as short as possible. While it's true that pushback doesn't affect it, the hitstun decay is still a thing ! Go for standard shotgun loop instead if you think you will drop it. -Shotgun loops are all universals. The walk shotgun loop got a character specific part however: The maximum amount of hits is generally {walk>Powered SG-H>46H}x6 but against thinner characters, it is 5. Just go for 5 if you want to be safe.

You're mistaking something here: The timing to shoot during the toss' blockstun got nothing to do with wake-up timing. What you have to understand is that you can't get powered rifle mode if the opponent is waking up. You NEED to keep them in blockstun to be able to do the unblockable shot. Therefore, powered rifle mode is affected solely by the toss' blockstun. What you meant is probably that you have less time to do 2P>236S against characters who wake up faster than others but the thing is that you will always have the time to do it. Whether it concerns Venom who wake up the fastest or Chipp and Sin who are the slowest, you will always be able to do 2P>236S>Toss>unblockable shot during blockstun with IB or not. The unblockable shot during blockstun is completely universal as long as you throw the grenade. In fact, you will even have to delay the toss sometimes. Leo and Sol are pretty good examples where if you did it as fast as possible or delayed jH in order to hit with the tippity tip of the hitbox, Leo and Sol will be hit OTG by the grenade toss. That's how much time you have to do the unblockable setups and that's one of the reasons why the unblockables themselves are universal and very easy to pull off but what leads into it is completely character specifics. The only big variable that determines whether or not you did it "perfectly" is when you hit with the unblockable shot. With the right timing, it doesn't look like the scope changed at all and that's exactly when you want to shoot. Exactly when the scope starts changing. Though, to be honest, it's much more lenient than how I'm describing it. In fact, looping against annoying hurtboxes like Zato is much harder than getting the right timing to shoot during the toss' blockstun. Obviously you might think: "Yeah but if he messes up anyway, I can still do IB>backdash"; However, if you consider that you have to sink hours in training mode in order to know the loops against every characters, you can be damn certain that any Elphelt player worth their salt won't ever mess up unless they are playing online or something like that. In the end, you have much higher chances to do Blitzshield>backdash or Blitz>blitz on wake up without any training rather than hoping that a legit Elphelt player will mess one of the easiest part up.

-The grenade hits you frame one. You can't jump out of it. The unblockable will also be done during the toss' blockstun so if you block it or get hit, you will eat the unblockable. -Not every reversals can actually allow you to escape the unblockable setup. Even if you manage to avoid the toss and the shot, you have to worry about the explosion which will allow Elphel to keep the loop going or at least get a nice combo off it. -Only super armor move allowing to escape the setup is Hammerfall. -Even if you hit Elphelt, you still have to worry about the berry explosion afterwards which will pretty much often be in her favour. Only way to avoid the whole setup and punish Elphelt is with OTG blue burst that you can read here. The most reliable and universal way to avoid it like I mentionned is Blitzshield>Blitzshield on wake-up.

Any standing or crouching combo listed should work off a P/K starter. In the corner, you will generally do 2P>5K>(cS)>fS>standing or crouching route. With 50 meter, you should either go for an unblockable loop setup (if you got a short grounded combo) or walk shotgun loops. For the shotgun loop, do ...>fS>2H(2)>2D>214K RC>dash 236H>{(walk)>Powered SG-H>46H}x5>etc on crouching. On standing, either go for fS>5Hx5 RC or fS>2S>5H>214K RC. Walk shotgun loops can be quite tricky with a 5Hx5 RC however so it's better to go for powered shotgun loops instead. Check the okizeme section on the wiki for more informations concerning the unblockables. Also, sorry for the lack of updates lately as I've been very busy. I will properly take care of the combo thread soon.

Midscreen unblockables ! Japanese netplay footage- Sol vs Elphelt

Koichi(EL) vs Ertai(VE) Only watched a bit but so far, it seems that Koichi is still struggling with her. He seems to go for an air heavy gamestyle(With jH and jD. Saw numerous situations where jH completely whiffed and jS would have been a better choice.) and space control with Berry, 6H and Bazooka. Might be possible that it's how you're supposed to play the matchup. I'll entirely watch it when I'll have more free time and transcribe any techs he used. If you would like to do it yourself or analyze more accurately this match, please talk about it in the general thread as the video thread is mostly here to only post videos.

It's a bit hard to answer that because of how versatile she is and what you will do is completely matchup dependent as some tools can be godlike in a matchup while being completely useless in others. If however you meant "What does she do the best ?", then in that case, rushdown would be her strongest point. How good her pressure is compared to other characters like Zato, Millia or Ram is completely debatable. Consider her rushdown to be one of the best, her pressure to be above average and her zoning to be okay. How good her mixup is is completely debatable too. Yes, she got an unblockable loop but unless you're playing against a character with no individual options and no tension, it becomes more something like "Does he know how to deal with it or not ?". In my case, everyone in my offline scene trained for hours to be able to deal with it. They succeed around 80-90% of the time and YRCing their wake-up only affect Potemkin because of his charge mechanic on Hammerfall. It reached a point where the unblockable loop just became a gimmick and I was back to basic shotgun loop for guaranteed damage instead. So yeah, against people that aren't serious at all and don't want to learn the timing to deal with it, go for the UB loop. Otherwise, forget about it. Her shotgun mixup on the other hand is very strong and becomes ridiculously rewarding in the corner. Conclusion: Exactly what excelence said: You can do whatever the hell you want with her.

I tested everything right after the patch and like I explained here, there are no changes at all. It was just a mere rumor.