Nehle

Let's make a thread to keep track of and discuss Dizzy changes for the upcoming Accent Core Plus R! Now, I fully expect the Dizzy modifications in +R to change, especially after the first loketest, so keep that in mind. Having said that, let's look at the currently known changes: 421D : New FB move, FB version of 421S (3 homing blades) K fish bites 3 times Fish laser causes wall stick Text above tension bar indicates if not possible to summon fish Okay so... FUCKING YES that FB dagger seems AWESOME. It basically is 25% tension to be guaranteed to be left alone, before it was only the threat of an ice-spike frc, but now... Holy shit! Looks like the recovery is short as well. I have already dubbed this the "superhadoken" Yes, a visual aid to show when you can't summon fish. That's a pure improvement, and a needed one at that. The K(?) fish looks weird. I want to see if it looks the same on block or whiff, because it almost seems like it "confirms" into more bites on hit. Not sure if it's good or not, but at least different. Wall stick? Yeah we saw it on the video, but it's really too early to tell anything about it. Is it only on air hit? Will it toss the opponent further now? What's the techable time on the air hit? I'm afraid that some of those questions have an answer I don't want to hear, this feels like a nerf, but it's hard to say. Discuss!

Okizeme is awesome. This thread is about how you win the match after a knockdown in AC+R For starters I think we just list whatever we can pick up in the videos before we can actually get hands-on experience

Yeah man it's a real mystery where to put things about okizeme in +R

I love the FB dagger for just keeping momentum in pressure, much like how testament used EXE FRC. It's also good for surprise snipes at some points I guess. Even at full screen if someone blocks it it gives you loads of time. Even without the FRC the frame advantage is awesome Auto-pop I like especially for FB bubble in neutral game. It creates more breathing room than before. In vanilla AC I would actually have to maintain the spacing so that popping the bubble was a threat, now I can back off more and try to create space for myself while the bubble is there. There are also some gimmicky setups in oki where you can do a blockstring into a bubble self-pop while you summon, but I don't think they're that useful since you generally get poorer summons from it.

I really am for the opinion that the macro bug should be banned. However, since there seems to be some(?) controversy around it, maybe we should start looking into some conditional ban to still allow newcomers an easier way into the game? I'm all for compomising if it keeps the community together Just brainstorming a few ideas Only ban it in top 8 for tournaments Allow players to choose if macros are allowed for the round, as per Essays idea Ban it after some time period (say, a few months), to allow pad players time to learn to play without Other ideas...?

I don't give a shit how much effort you spend on learning New Tech X or whatever, and if you can pull it off after only seeing it once then good on you. I meant effort of pulling stuff off in a high-pressure situation. There's no mental effort, I guess I meant to say, in that you don't have to concentrate on getting something perfectly right. Like doing a perfectly timed reversal after being knocked down means actually paying attention to not only when you were knocked down, but also if your character landed face-down or face-up and how that affects their riseup speed. That is something you consciously have to consider and that puts a cognitive strain on you and that will affect how the mind games are played out. Similarily, a Baiken player that doesn't need any effort to get a perfect 1f-counter against any random pokes will have a severe advantage over one who actually needs to confirm things. I can't believe you actually think this! Apples and oranges

It's not about doing it more consistently, it's about doing it without effort or commitment

Placeholder for general Dizzy strats This wiki post is still pretty relevant you guys!! Let's keep the talk in this thread to Dizzy strategies in +R, from specific situations to general strategies and matchups. For starters I think we just list whatever we can pick up in the videos before we can actually get hands-on experience

Yeah, almost every KD oki requires a meaty normal to stop the jump-outs. I actually think a bigger problem is the fact that K has almost no reach at all so usually you can't just 2D > KD anyways, since that'll make the KD miss Also find it a bit annoying that I can't delay special cancel off of 2D without doing the jump cancel. Not a big thing, but just unnecessary that I still have to jump cancel cancel in some circumstance..

Let's talk combos! For starters I think we just list whatever we can pick up in the videos before we can actually get hands-on experience

Discuss ΛC okizeme here. For those just new to Dizzy - okizeme is really where Dizzy shines and it's from here you'll do the most damage to your opponent. Dizzy okizeme is all about planning. There's no way you can freestyle at all as much as, say, Ky. In many cases your entire input for the next seconds will already be planned once the opponent rises. If you plan and practice you can have endless possibilities to hurt and scare your opponents, but if you just improvise, there's a very good chance your corner pressure, and the match for that matter, will slip through your fingers. Read this if you don't understand the notation These are some of the more common okizemes dizzy players use. But like I said, the possibilities are endless. Note that no followup combos are listed here, you'll have to figure those out on your own, but most of them can successfully be followed up by either 2k or S.c into standard knockdown and reset. Also note that many of these are not autocombos and you'll have to prepare to go to combo earlier if the opponent accidentally ate a hit before they've come to end CORNER OKI Whenever it says "High/Low mixup" it means you can either do an airdash j.2s j.H or land 2k For almost all these, when it says airdash 2s, the 2s has to be done as early as possible to allow for a high/low mixup HP Fish: 214H,P, dash 2k, laser, dash 2k 5s, jump, fish bite, j.2s 214K, fish bite |_ ad.2s (pops bubble), High/Low mixup |_ fall a bit, dj.k (pops bubble), High/Low mixup |_ land 2k |_ land throw 214H,P, dash 2k, laser, S.c 5H |_ 236S |_ (on hit) Knockdown combo |_ (on block) P/K Bubble, dj.K (pops bubble), High/Low mixup |_ 5D HK Fish 214H,K IAD j.2s |_ ad.2s j.H |_ (if blocked) TK bubble, dj.K, High/Low mixup |_ land 2k Spear (Works in Slash too) TK Bubble, 421 (pops bubble) IAD |_ j.H, land |_ j.P (fuzzy guard) ]S[ j.H |_ land 2k ]S[ |_ j.H 214K, j.K land ]S[ summon fish |_ backdash j.H ]S[ dash 2k MIDSCREEN OKI 214H,X, short dash, jump (over opponent) |_ land 2k |_ backdash late j2s 214H,H delayed IAD (past opponent), laser, IAD back j.2S j.H, land |_(on hit) |_c.S, laser, 2K 2h 236H |_2H > 421 j.H > 214K ]S[, land, j.S j.D Does not work on all characters, list pending |_(on block) |_j.P (fuzzy guard), laser, (j.2S) j.H |> 2H 236H |_2k dash, laser, 2k 2H 236H I'll add more as I come across it The Slash P fish alternating kick/bite thing does not work as before (someone may come with a way to handle this?) because the bites are slightly further apart and the gap between the first and the second P pattern makes it a bit more troublesome, but it might be doable.

I nominate Shinjin for translator Exhibit A: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?13487-AC-R-General-Discussion/page16&p=1336396&highlight=#post1336396 Exhibit B: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?2975-Accent-Core-Venom-Thread/page7&p=1322181&highlight=#post1322181 Exhibit C: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?13487-AC-R-General-Discussion/page20&p=1348821&highlight=#post1348821 + http://bitterharmony.se/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4480

Me, Shinjin, Caer and Glenn started a podcast. In the first episode there's a lot of Dizzy talk like gameplan and strengths and weaknesses (and why she's not a good as Millia)!

Without doing any training mode checking with the actual timing I'm going to go ahead and claim that if it works out with the timing of the j.P > bite > j.H or whatever you have in mind after the j.P, the setup requires that they block the c.S standing and then immediately go into a crouching block. The only reason I can imagine the going from crouch to stand after blocking a 2k is that they would anticipate a throw - but then why would they block low immediately after they tried to counterthrow your throw? I guess maybe you could do some shenanigans with 5s > 2d to condition a low block after the 5s, but that is much slower than the fuzzy j.P will have to be. If you can trick them into a standing position, just go for that 2k instead of 5s I guess?? I can see it maybe working against potemkin because his hitbox is fricking huge even when he is blocking low.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3cw0vjVlcc Kazuki vs Roi , Nakamura , Osaka B

People have only played the game for 2 weeks and haven't found ways to handle her is the biggest reason probably, but * Her neutral is vastly improved over AC. Really. 25% tension dizzy is really hard to get in on and can get KD from pretty much anywhere. Laser fish in neutral is retarded in a good way. * Oki has gone from "very good" to "GDLK" Also, don't take this tier list as anything resembling a fact. It's a community list made a few weeks after the balance patch. It's bound to change. IMO, it's not much more than an indication of what 5-10 characters will be at the top and who will be at the bottom.

So where is that matchup chart from? Is it just some random dude's opinions or does it actually carry some weight?

Haha, yeah, that was quite the experience. He was staying at Shinjin and then we all road tripped to a tournament, so we got to know a little at least, though I don't know japanese so.. After the games he gave me some pointers on my game and then told me not to feel bad because he's "good against Dizzy" (like there's a character he isn't good against..), but he was awesome and very sympathetic guy so I had an absolute blast

I like it when people research So this is just "naked" j.2S right? or did you try it with a laser fish as well, cause that's gonna force them either have a crouching block or hurt, and I think that's bigger for most of the "won't hit" characters. But I've also noticed that if you want to do the good ol' IAD j.H, land, j.P fuzzies, the j.H can miss some chars if they only crouch without blocking. It's a sneaky tech!

I find that summon + getting in can be real hard timing wise. Sometimes it's easier to just go for an IAD mixup right off the bat without summons backing you up. Or if you really want to summon, you're going to have to accept a weak(er) oki, but at least you can start a strong positional / neutral play.

Yeah, it's a "level 6", but that's just a level 5 with special properties, so it's still "officially" level 5 (in any case it's not level 2). I think it's a bit weird though that the mook doesn't mention anything special about the level 6 moves (same with KY/PO 6H. Just says "5" and no extra notes) RE: Ice Spike. Mook doesn't mention any proration

D fish is not level 2, it's level 5. Updated the wiki

K fish!

Just a small reminder to post about Dizzy +R changes in the thread that is about Dizzy's changes in +R. This thread is about vanilla AC

In the latest vid Kazuki does a shitload of KD Fish > 2k > 421S > IAD mixup in the corner. Seems relly solid thanks to the long blockstun by K fish He also does a sweet-ass confirm where he comboes into bubble loop by planting a bubble while the opponent is staggered by D fish Edit: THanks, Horokei