Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Sir_Bumble_Bee

A novice player hitting that "brickwall" in GGXrd

Recommended Posts

First, I would like give my greetings as a new member of dustloop. I am relatively new to fighting games as a whole and so far I'm in love with the community. I started with SFII turdo on the snes (wii virtual console) and have since gotten into more franchises such as guilty gear and tekken.

 

Now with that out of the way, here's my problem.

 

I have been playing GGXrd for the past 2 1/2 weeks, logging in usually around 3 hours per day. I recently acquired a hori real arcade pro v4 arcade stick soon after my thumbs started getting blisters. Recently, however, I have been feeling somewhat discouraged into playing the game due to my experience online. Out of around 50 overall matches I've played, I've won 1. I know it's just because I need to get better (I've heard the "spend 80% of your time in training" theory), but when I spend a couple hours in training and challenge mode and then hop into a room to apply what I've learned and get stomped on it's disappointing to say the least. I feel like I'm making no progression.

 

From what I heard prior to picking up the game, most people said that it's easy to get into and understand but eventually you'll hit a wall. Is this what I have been hearing about? I get how roman cancels, bursts, rejections, dead angle attacks, and faultless defense works, but I can almost never properly utilize most of them in a real match.

 

I'd like to think of this question as more than a simple "how to get better" topic and instead would like to hear some personal stories and solutions.

 

I still love the game and I want to get better and compete, but how exactly do I overcome this bump in the road?

 

Thank you for reading and sorry for the lengthy post :)

 

Side note; I main May and I have some interest in learning Millia later 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just play more and don't be afraid to experiment in a match.  Eventually everything will come naturally.  Prevent playing on auto pilot and try to read your opponents and their patterns. 

 

Guilty Gear has a ton of options compared to most fighters, so to get good you really need to think of the overall situation at hand.  Every situation multiple outcomes should theorize in your head.

 

Also, never feel like your situation is impossible.  GG is so heavy on mixup, it only takes one knockdown to flip a match completely.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First, I would like give my greetings as a new member of dustloop. I am relatively new to fighting games as a whole and so far I'm in love with the community. I started with SFII turdo on the snes (wii virtual console) and have since gotten into more franchises such as guilty gear and tekken.

 

Now with that out of the way, here's my problem.

 

I have been playing GGXrd for the past 2 1/2 weeks, logging in usually around 3 hours per day. I recently acquired a hori real arcade pro v4 arcade stick soon after my thumbs started getting blisters. Recently, however, I have been feeling somewhat discouraged into playing the game due to my experience online. Out of around 50 overall matches I've played, I've won 1. I know it's just because I need to get better (I've heard the "spend 80% of your time in training" theory), but when I spend a couple hours in training and challenge mode and then hop into a room to apply what I've learned and get stomped on it's disappointing to say the least. I feel like I'm making no progression.

 

From what I heard prior to picking up the game, most people said that it's easy to get into and understand but eventually you'll hit a wall. Is this what I have been hearing about? I get how roman cancels, bursts, rejections, dead angle attacks, and faultless defense works, but I can almost never properly utilize most of them in a real match.

 

I'd like to think of this question as more than a simple "how to get better" topic and instead would like to hear some personal stories and solutions.

 

I still love the game and I want to get better and compete, but how exactly do I overcome this bump in the road?

 

Thank you for reading and sorry for the lengthy post :)

 

Side note; I main May and I have some interest in learning Millia later 

That's just the matter of getting familiar with the game. If you are relatively new to the game, even if you know everything about the game but never do it in real matches, you'll always meet problems as you listed above. Don't worry about that, everybody hits "wall" sometime in their fighting game life, me too. But after each time i hit a "wall" and successfully pass it, i leveled up a little bit :D. I'm a big fan of FAB-the Guilty Gear Potemkin God, and even him sometimes get stressed(or hit "wall") of playing due to some different reason, but when he got over them, he become even stronger.

As for how to getting better at game, i suggest when you play, don't mashing or do things that you don't understand or don't know what it was for, focus on something that you want to improve, and try to to them as good as you can. For Example, when i play Sol and i want to improve my anti air, i focus heavier on stuffing IAD with 6P and AA with 5K. You can try focus on 3 things at a time to improve, in 3 phase of the game: offense,defense,neutral. For eg: as a Potemkin player fighting Sol, I can focus on IB, fuzzy guard and reaction to overhead, wild throw(that's for defense), focus on doing safe jump precisely(that's for offense), and focus on flicking unsafe gun flame(for neutral). That way works great for me.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi there! first off, welcome to the Dustloop community! I hope you enjoy your time here! 

 

Now speaking of the roadblock you are encountering, It happens to majority of players starting out and there is no need to feel ashamed of it. Like you said, you are a "novice" player. You are not going to become top level within a week of playing or even a month of playing. As many will probably tell you, This genre requires you to spend a decent amount of time with the game,experiment with things and do research which is all very true. Training and learning your character inside and out is very important to get the most use of your character in matches but the 80% time spent training mode statement is not very true. It's not the time you spend in training mode but the quality of what you learn or discover. 

 

After you feel comfortable with your character, you start playing matches and have trouble with certain match-ups. Some match-ups are easy to learn while some are rather daunting. You'll adapt as you play and learn how to deal with certain situations. However, there will sometimes be times where you can't figure it out by yourself. This is when you go on YouTube and observe some matches or ask someone here to see if they can give you some assistance. Training mode will always be used frequently to test what you learned to get comfortable before going into actual matches.

 

In all, indeed it is mostly spending time with the game but it is also how you utilize your time and actually learn.

 

I hope this helps abit and best of luck learning GGxrd! :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is my first post in here.  I am pretty much in the EXACT same situation as Sir_Bumble_bee.  I got Guilty Gear Xrd for Christmas and have been playing it a ton.  I enjoyed BlazBlue but was never any good at it.  Any friend that came over to my house to play would get destroyed, but as soon as I went online, it was ugly! :) 

 

I've been maining I-No and have some beginner level combos down, plus the Roman Cancel chaining of a few.  I've only won 1 online match but lost probably 50 or so.  

 

I'd like to add Sir_Bumble_Bee to my psn name - it sounds like we could really help each other out!  Or at the very least have a few competitive matches since we both apparently suck  :) 

 

My psn name is GodsGift2Guitar if you want to friend me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On the topic of match videos, what you should be looking for are what situations specific moves are used in. Faust has several different moves he can use as an anti-air for instance, so if you were using him try and observe the situations in which he uses his different AA moves. If you're having trouble with specific characters, mess around with them in training mode or watch videos of them, not necessarily fighting against your character.

 

I think when it comes to stuff like combos and YRC timing, you should try to do it properly ten times in a row in training mode. Again, recognize situations where you can use combos and setups and don't try to just throw stuff out. I'm competent at GG and Persona but I've got problems of my own I need to work on (I've played around 30-40 ranked matches of Xrd and won about half of them) so I feel like I can give help without being overwhelming. Feel free to add me if you'd like!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It takes a lot of time to become good. If I had to give you two major pieces of advice, it'd be to use your replays to examine your errors, and to focus on quality of matches of quantity of matches -- i.e., you're better off playing 10 focused games than 50 halfassed ones.

Something that ties into the second is that you should focus on improving one aspect of your game when you sit down and play. It doesn't need to be hard, or complicated; it should just be something you ID'd as something you need to improve. Win or lose, if you improve on that one thing throughout a set, you'll come away as a better player. If you can keep doing that, you'll get better much faster than you would otherwise.

 

Something else important about the second is that you should be less concerned about winning or losing than just improving. Being concerned about winning may actually lead you to make decisions counter to your goal. (For example, if you're trying to DP less, but you have a very strong read and you know your DP will win you the round, you should hold your DP if you're trying to learn to DP less, but use DP if your goal is just to win.)

 

Those are probably the two best pieces of advice that I can give you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you for the advice.  I'm going to give this a shot tonight.  I think my big problem is defense.  I have a tendency to try to rush my opponent because I'm trying to do that random combo I just learned... it hasn't been going well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you for the advice.  I'm going to give this a shot tonight.  I think my big problem is defense.  I have a tendency to try to rush my opponent because I'm trying to do that random combo I just learned... it hasn't been going well.

Thats what my definition of auto pilot means.  You're more focused on what you can do and want to / will do, you dont see the bigger picture.  You should be also thinking about what options your opponent can do and what he has been doing.  How much tension does he have, burst, does he jump a lot, does he throw all the time, what does he do on wakeup usually, how well does he anti air, how well he Instant blocks etc etc.

 

The combo you do should just be a reaction when you do land the hit, it shouldn't be the focus of your game plan.

 

Well thats what I think about when I play.  Its more about how I'm going to land hits and get into my opponents head.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry that I got to this thread late...   you may want to consider this, as well:

FIRSTLY, Do you currently play on the psn/Internet as accessed through a router or otherwise firewall ?!?!? (This is important)

(If you aren't on a router or otherwise, you can go ahead and ignore this post)

I can tell you through my own experience that this game is very sensitive when it comes to stable match-making.

Up until the recent patch, I was getting a 13 Frame Delay when playing over a router  (5-7 now, which some have told me is normal.. but still not good enough)

Worst part was, I hadn't even realized it the entire first hour into playing.. until I attempted an IK, then it happened THREE SECONDS later, as I was attempting a double dash forward (because they moved)

 

Quick resolves for this phenomenon: 

 

1. Use a direct connect to the Internet, not through your router

 

or alternatively,

2. Open the ports on your router to the playstation network

(Information on the port numbers for PSN can be found here)

 

https://support.us.playstation.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/241/~/firewall-port-numbers-to-play-games-online
 

 

Furthermore, if you have issues with opening ports on your router or have simply never done it before, this site includes step-by-step instructions on how to do so:
http://portforward.com/english/applications/port_forwarding/Guilty_Gear_Xrd_-SIGN-_-_PlayStation_4/

 

 

------------

Just consider it advice from a friend... 

I had to play on a router the entire first day I had the game while a sibling of mine streamed youtube.

I understand the pain of 1 and 50. v_V

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My frame delay was fluctuating between 5-9 last night.  I have plans to move my video game station upstairs so it can be hardwired, but that first requires a new TV and couch!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think he just means just winning normally. It's usually obvious when you lose due to delay but if that is your problem SirBumbleBee, what Mr.Psilocybe is commonly done to have a better online experience in terms of the quality of the matches. (I haven't tried it myself though)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm in roughly the same boat as you, although my record isn't as bad as yours yet (21 losses, 0 wins in ranked). In player matches, I was losing pretty much every single one of them. Maybe I'd take a round here and there, but its not at the point where I'm proud of it. I've swapped characters... initially I was using Sin, and now I've swapped over to Ky to grasp the mechanics of GGXRD bit by bit, and at an easier pace. 

 

Your time training everyday isn't wasted. Just switch it up a bit in training, it takes a while for it to become muscle memory and you need to keep those combos in your head. Spend some time practicing against moves you're having trouble against, e.g Volcanic Viper spamming. That's what I usually try to do. I happened to come across this video somewhere while searching up Guilty Gear guides. I'm not sure if you've seen it before but if you haven't, it might help you out. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzUQ5FR7TQA

 

Its pretty lengthy and not on Xrd, but the concepts are roughly the same. This should apply to most fighting games I reckon. 

 

I think that you're in the right track though, don't take the losses too hard. I'm trying not take it to heart as well, since it seems that most people have a good feel of how Guilty Gear works whereas guys like you and me are just starting out. Its perfectly normal, just don't resort to spamming or desperate tactics to win. Take your time and process things.. in fact one of my goals is to not be on auto pilot, but to actually try and observe what the other player is doing. I'm trying to sit back a bit, look for habits perhaps, and try to use that knowledge to get in for some combos. Its not working out too well though, cause I can't keep up with it myself. Keep up the practice, try to play against people more often.. that's one of the best ways to learn. 

 

What I like to do in terms of combos, is to not always rely on the challenges. Sure, they're good for testing your execution but sometimes its better to dumb it down a bit and simply a BnB so that you can land it all the time. Go on youtube and look for normals to use in different situations (anti air, etc etc) and perhaps some short combos that you're capable of pulling off consistently. If its too hard, take your time to learn it, but slowly implement it. I like to start with simple and practical combos and work up from there... although I'm not making much progress myself, but that's what I aim to do at least. 

 

 

 

Good luck to the both of us! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've had much better luck than you when it comes to winning, but I've mostly used Ky, I-No, and Faust. I used May a little, and found I literally couldn't land ANY of the combos I learned with her. Played 11 or so matches, couldn't land one command grab. I don't get how you're supposed to setup crouching slash into dolphin charge. I won just by spamming specials, and doing basic run in kick, slash, crouch dust. My point is, just because you can a combo in training doesn't mean you have any idea how to apply it in a real match. Hopefully you're starting out simple, but if you're not you may want to dial it back a bit. Training mode is good, but you're unlikely to learn how to fight actually people there.

 

In my experience, the average online player is way too hungry, and hits too many buttons, so spamming the crap out of horizontal dolphin, and mixing it up with verticle dolphin works well. It's SUPER unsatisfying to win that way though. Honestly, I don't personally understand how May is an "easy" character", and would recommend starting out easier with Ky or Sol (or Faust if you don't mind gimmicky wins. People REALLY don't respect the meteor, it's weird.)

 

I'm still new to the game, so I'm not pretending this is sage advice, but it might be worth considering.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've had much better luck than you when it comes to winning, but I've mostly used Ky, I-No, and Faust. I used May a little, and found I literally couldn't land ANY of the combos I learned with her. Played 11 or so matches, couldn't land one command grab. I don't get how you're supposed to setup crouching slash into dolphin charge. I won just by spamming specials, and doing basic run in kick, slash, crouch dust. My point is, just because you can a combo in training doesn't mean you have any idea how to apply it in a real match. Hopefully you're starting out simple, but if you're not you may want to dial it back a bit. Training mode is good, but you're unlikely to learn how to fight actually people there.

 

In my experience, the average online player is way too hungry, and hits too many buttons, so spamming the crap out of horizontal dolphin, and mixing it up with verticle dolphin works well. It's SUPER unsatisfying to win that way though. Honestly, I don't personally understand how May is an "easy" character", and would recommend starting out easier with Ky or Sol (or Faust if you don't mind gimmicky wins. People REALLY don't respect the meteor, it's weird.)

 

I'm still new to the game, so I'm not pretending this is sage advice, but it might be worth considering.

There's a very common mistake(or misunderstand) inside of new players' head that: playing is just to win

remember: outside of tournament or serious matches( like money match, ranking match ...) your play is TO LEARN, not TO WIN. So when playing, don't focus on use whatever to win, focus on what to improve yourself. How can you learn how to apply something you've trained in training mode if you go in a match and just want to beat the shit out of that guy, because logically, something that you just find out/grind in training mode is something that you haven't completely good, and there's big chance that you'll fuck it up and lose - so better just don't use it. And you end up not progress anything.

Of course the ultimate goal when playing fighting game is to win. But you have to choose whenever and whatever to win

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you have a local scene available, check it out. Nothing will train you faster than having actual, real contact with people that can give you immediate, valid feedback if you are willing to take it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

on online match with 3 frames I still dropped like 50% of ramlethal's dauro dash pk dash pk ppp combo mid screen, then I watched Haitani stream he didn't even manage a single combo off with 3 frame delay.

I stop caring dropping combos online it's bound to happen. Focus more on the match up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I stop caring dropping combos online it's bound to happen. Focus more on the match up.

Bound to happen, yes, but still frustrating when one spends so much time in Training Mode practicing a combo or loop only to have it fail unexpectedly in an actual match. It does take a toll on the old confidence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've mostly been doing single player content for the past few weekends I've had the game, but where do beginners go for matches online?  

Tried contacting beginners on weekends in the Newbies Unite topic & played vs. a PSN friend there.  But most people don't respond.

 

Also, how do you find matches in lobby?

I go to my region, then end up in a castle room w/odd icons & doors.  Then I can't find a match there.  So different than P4AU where you move around to arcade cabinets or player rooms where I understand the menus.  Whenever I click on a door in Xrd, nothing seems to happen. Do beginners go to ranked? Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Door is a player room, which can only be filled with 8 players, closed door indicated that the room is full.

OK, that helps. Thanks.  (Maybe I missed that in the instruction book)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I play Axl as my main and what got me over my brickwall was

1) Learning the basic combos in training mode.

2) Learning the basic axl combos on dustloops and youtube.

3) PRACTICING on inputs. 15 minutes a day. I have trouble with overdrives and other inputs under pressure.

4) Watching other Axl players play online. I watch them for how they play differently and what they do well. You learn a lot about what places are good to roman cancel.

 

I went from a scrub to "people actually think I'm a good Axl player" in 2 frustrating weeks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've tried so many different characters in this game, but I've hit a brick wall with most that I like.

I don't want to use the "the pad is why I'm limited" excuse, but I spent all of my times on fighters the last 5+ years on an arcade stick and being back to the controller is killing me. If the character has a shoryu motion attack then I automatically cannot play them. :/ I can do shoryu sometimes on pad on one side of the screen, but then it's game over for me on the reverse. The same goes with doing supers. No matter how much time I practice pad execution it just is not good.

Arcade stick though? No problem. SF4 hit 1 frame link FADC combos, can play Ibuki, C. Viper, etc without problems. I can hit probably 100/100 shoryu's either side, but until stock becomes available online I'm screwed on PS4. (360 stick broke so no modding for me either)

---------

With this said there is a few characters I can somewhat play. Faust, Slayer, and Chipp. Faust is the one I'm calling my "main," but if I had a stick I'd probably play as Chipp. Faust online is simple enough, but I suck at keeping the neutral game with him. I'll get into a corner, and all the defense in the world can't help me escape. Finding those "holes" is super hard in this game imo to exploit to get a counter/knock down. Teleport is too slow on start up to get out, and it's easy to punish him if he ever uses it and doesn't have RC ready to rock.

I know that feel though OP. Keep grinding. I think I spent about 3+ months of 3+ hours of play before my execution was no longer the reason I was losing in SF4.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks to all for the advice, I'm gonna hop on tonight to try some things out that I've been researching lately. Wish me luck!

Also, I'm always up for hopping online and being a sparring partner. Keep in mind there will be a big skill gap when we start, but I can try to pick whatever character you are using too and showcase what I would do playing them. (Except Potemkin....I'm too bad with him)

PSN: OutlawOcelot

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×