Xrd Hellfire: Good or Bad?

[D-D-Domo]

I had a debate with uh friend saying how much Hellfire is a detriment to the game, giving a free reward to the losing opponent. Whereas I didn't see it as too impactful. WHAT'S D-LOOP'S ONIONS

[SoWL]

Contrary to the popular opinion, comeback mechanics are not inherently bad. They can, however, be badly implemented, just like any other mechanic. I honestly don't believe it to be the case with Hellfire: you still have to build up tension for that buffed OD, you have to have an OD with some invincibility (which is not that easy in GG), and you have to actually land it. If anything, I think Hellfire's a bit too weak to serve its intended purpose, and Guts is still the primary comeback mechanic in GG.

 

Now, compare that to Awakenings in Persona, where you get a defense buff AND free meter AND a new super when your health is in the red. The weird thing is, I don't see anyone complaining about it.

[D-D-Domo]

It's irrelevant and random, the only reason it exists is for hype. Most players don't even have a "mortal combo" route practiced so they just do normal combos anyway.

 

I can't imagine this hasn't been already discussed to death.

I think your talking about Danger Time? :333?

 

Contrary to the popular opinion, comeback mechanics are not inherently bad. They can, however, be badly implemented, just like any other mechanic. I honestly don't believe it to be the case with Hellfire: you still have to build up tension for that buffed OD, you have to have an OD with some invincibility (which is not that easy in GG), and you have to actually land it. If anything, I think Hellfire's a bit too weak to serve its intended purpose, and Guts is still the primary comeback mechanic in GG.

 

Now, compare that to Awakenings in Persona, where you get a defense buff AND free meter AND a new super when your health is in the red. The weird thing is, I don't see anyone complaining about it.

One of the main reason my friend finds it in b-b-bad tastes is that the one in Hellfire needs less chances to get the right reads to end the match, when that person shouldn't have for losing so far in the match. I like rhino sex.

[Ctrlaltwtf]

I think your talking about Danger Time? 

 

Yeah, that'd be why I deleted that post. I'm so used to seeing complaints about it it has infected my brain.

 

 

As for Hellfire, I see no problem with it because it makes reversal ODs an actual thing that can make a difference late in the round. While they were certainly relevant before they were still fairly unusual, most of the time your meter was better spent somewhere else. I can see how getting destroyed by a "scrubby" wake-up OD or something could make people upset but it's just gameplay to me. I've never lost and gone "Argh! Hellfire is the only reason I lost!" 

 

I've landed plenty of IK's on a Hellfire'd opponent as well, it seems cheesey but the reality is it allows some situations that are unburstable and I can just finish you off guaranteed i.e. IK off a throw. Throws are so common that's a definite downside to being in Hellfire mode.

[SoWL]

Sure, you need to make less correct reads in Hellfire, but the same goes for your opponent, since you're this close to death. If you don't want to have the match be decided by its first ten seconds, comeback mechanics like this are necessary for a good, interesting game.

[Dreiko]

I don't see hellfire as a comeback system, if you do you might as well add bursts and tension pulse in there since they also give you more benefits for being in a low life range (faster meter gain and faster burst return).

 

 

I see hellfire as a buff to supers. Considering supers are pretty weak in GG and often not worth using, I think hellfire adds something where the same situation in which you'd just go for an RC combo, now you may go for a super combo instead. That's literally all it does. It adds variety and variation. I like variety, I like variation, I think they're good things. If you get hit by some random raw super you may feel hellfire is unfair but how often does that really even happen in high level matches. Most of the time hellfire is negligible.

[Destin]

Guts isn't really a comeback mechanic, it just appears to be one.  Nothing you can do changes, I guess there are specific situations where it matters, but generally speaking it's an aesthetic change.  You can do a rough calculation to see how much health you had at the beginning of the round.

[Dude Butts]

if there's one new mechanic to really not give a shit about, it's hellfire

[Circuitous]

Guts isn't really a comeback mechanic, it just appears to be one.  Nothing you can do changes, I guess there are specific situations where it matters, but generally speaking it's an aesthetic change.  You can do a rough calculation to see how much health you had at the beginning of the round.

 

The hits you land at the barriers of each level of guts can make a significant difference in the "effective health" of a character.

 

Anyway, hellfire's whatever. It has one benefit and one drawback. It's a thing.

[StylisH]

It's only something to complain about to people who get blown up by it constantly.  I don't see how it's a detriment, especially when there are much better ways of spending resources in those situations.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

I could see where someone might not like Hellfire if they're winning and eat a wakeup Winger from Millia that then turns into a full combo into oki. Otherwise, I don't really see the problem. Making ODs more useful is good. Now instead of going for an RC combo, you could feasibly go for an OD, which would be easier to do and also have the benefit of not scaling your Tension gain as harshly, which makes a comeback more of a reality.

[StylisH]

I could see where someone might not like Hellfire if they're winning and eat a wakeup Winger from Millia that then turns into a full combo into oki. Otherwise, I don't really see the problem. Making ODs more useful is good. Now instead of going for an RC combo, you could feasibly go for an OD, which would be easier to do and also have the benefit of not scaling your Tension gain as harshly, which makes a comeback more of a reality.

 

In that particular scenario, yeah I could some salt being manufactured.......

[Generic_Soda]

I never really notice Hellfire in match, so I agree, it's whatever. Supers outside of stuff like Dark Angel and Faust's super item throw don't get used too often, though some of the newcomers have pretty usable supers.

Since somebody brought it up, I don't mind Awakening in Persona, but I'll cut it short there to stay on topic.

[Stellarcircle5]

Hellfire Winger tho

[StylisH]

Hellfire Winger tho

 

Obnoxious, character is obnoxious   

 

At least we don't suffer from X-Factor/Ultra Combos

[Destin]

The hits you land at the barriers of each level of guts can make a significant difference in the "effective health" of a character.

 

Yes, but they don't really change your gameplay.  I doubt potes (the person who seems most effected) are thinking of not going for that extra punch to not put them at the next level of guts to land a more powerful pote buster.  Your decisions and gameplay are rarely effected by guts, so it's not really a comeback mechanic.

[SoWL]

Yes, but they don't really change your gameplay.  I doubt potes (the person who seems most effected) are thinking of not going for that extra punch to not put them at the next level of guts to land a more powerful pote buster.  Your decisions and gameplay are rarely effected by guts, so it's not really a comeback mechanic.

It gives you an advantage when you're close to losing, even if it's just a stat buff. Comeback mechanics don't have to give you more options.

[Destin]

It gives you an advantage when you're close to losing, even if it's just a stat buff. Comeback mechanics don't have to give you more options.

I mean, instead of scaling health I could scale the appearance of health on the bar, which would have 98% the same effect, and give you no "advantage".  Because the effective health can be calculated to relative accuracy before the match begins, the relative effect is close to nothing assuming you can mentally account for the visual disparity.

[SoWL]

So it's about its impact on the game rather than the options? That one's pretty hard to measure, since I rarely think about it in the actual fight, but it does feel different after playing the games where it's not present, and not just because the health bars are shorter than they actually are.

[Destin]

So it's about its impact on the game rather than the options? That one's pretty hard to measure, since I rarely think about it in the actual fight, but it does feel different after playing the games where it's not present, and not just because the health bars are shorter than they actually are.

You reach a point where you internalize the math behind it to a good degree, essentially you know the first half of the health bar might as well be a third ect.  It more encourages the appearance of a comeback than an actual comeback.  It makes thematic sense because they wanted to differentiate the "feel" of characters via this statistic, as if they try harder near the end.  

[MoralHazardPay]

The definition of a comeback mechanic is where the game makes you better off for being closer to a fail state. Basically where you might prefer to be at a lower life. Hellfire fits this because if you land an OD, you might prefer to be in hellfire. Guts does not, as you'd always want to be at a higher health level

[Linear04]

hellfire makes me feel good about myself when i take out half their bar and even the game with a random super

[StylisH]

hellfire makes me feel good about myself when i take out half their bar and even the game with a random super

 

This is basically what a comeback mechanic was meant for

[Linear04]

im a good player

[SoWL]

The definition of a comeback mechanic is where the game makes you better off for being closer to a fail state. Basically where you might prefer to be at a lower life. 

Not really? It's a mechanic that allows the player to literally come back into the game even when they're behind. A good comeback mechanic does not make you want to activate it, it just keeps you on equal footing with your opponent even after you made a mistake or two.

 

That said, Guts doesn't fit that definition, either, I suppose.