Xrd Hellfire: Good or Bad?

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

The definition of a comeback mechanic is where the game makes you better off for being closer to a fail state. Basically where you might prefer to be at a lower life. Hellfire fits this because if you land an OD, you might prefer to be in hellfire. Guts does not, as you'd always want to be at a higher health level

 

We're forgetting that being in Hell Fire can leave you susceptible to IK combos. It has pluses and minuses, while most comeback mechanics tend to have few to no negatives.

[StylisH]

im a good player

 

I'm not saying otherwise, but that is a large part of comeback mechanics in the 1st place.  IMO to provide assistance in a situation that you basically should have to work hard to win out, but the game "helps" you along with.  Coincidentally it makes the recipient feel accomplished at the same time for using said mechanic. 

 

Using it doesn't make you a bad player, top players use them all the time.

[MasterXDrake]

I love it. 

[BlackYakuzu94]

It's not really as explosive as other comeback mechanics honestly.

[Dreiko]

The definition of a comeback mechanic is where the game makes you better off for being closer to a fail state. Basically where you might prefer to be at a lower life. Hellfire fits this because if you land an OD, you might prefer to be in hellfire. Guts does not, as you'd always want to be at a higher health level

Being in low life also gives you a higher tension pulse and a higher burst regain rate too. Do you consider those systems also comeback mechanics? Cause they've been in GG for pretty much ever.

[MoralHazardPay]

Not really? It's a mechanic that allows the player to literally come back into the game even when they're behind. A good comeback mechanic does not make you want to activate it, it just keeps you on equal footing with your opponent even after you made a mistake or two.

 

That said, Guts doesn't fit that definition, either, I suppose.

I think you're missing my point; you don't always want to make the trade (to move closer to a failstate in order to gain the mechanic) but if it is possible for said trade to be in your advantage (eg any time you'd rather be at 49% than 50% in a hypothetical situation where your mechanic cuts in at below half health). So long as the possibility for it you to be better off by having less health, it's a comeback mechanic. I generally use SF4 and Injustice to demonstrate this; Ultras are very much a comeback mechanic. There are plenty of times I'd rather have a bit less life in order to have my Ultra or for my Ultra to do more damage. Clashes in Injustice however, aren't really a comeback factor because while they kick in at what is basically 50%... you can't use them to go above 50%, and the situation resets at 50% anyways so you can never be better off at 49% than at 50%

 

 

Being in low life also gives you a higher tension pulse and a higher burst regain rate too. Do you consider those systems also comeback mechanics? Cause they've been in GG for pretty much ever.

Yes? I'm not saying that comeback mechanics are bad, just that they exist.

[Kyosuke Kagami]

Hellfire isn't that awesome sometimes, specially when some ODs don't get as buffed as desired. I.e. if I compare HF version of Ride the Lightning or Amorphous with their normal versions, sure, it's an improvement (and somehow it's not that hot with Zato's), but others are virtually the same. I mean, HF Sacred Edge is still lol

[Vashimus]

Hellfire's largely to blame for why Slayer's DoT got nerfed the way it did, so for that I'm not really a fan of it. 

[TAI-X]

Honestly, I never pay much attention to it. As a comeback mechanic it's hardly comparable to SFIV Ultras, and isn't even in the same galaxy as MvC3 X-Factor. That's a compliment.

[burningvigor]

I could care less either way. 

 

Actually I'm going to say I like it.  Just the fact that it creates more options to think about at that point, and makes using supers somewhat more useful.

 

Plus I always laugh a little when I get hit by one and see Chipps hp bar go from full to less than half. 

 

 

 

Hellfire indeed.

[4r5]

I don't think Hellfire is why they changed Slayer's DoT. In fact it's the exact same as it was from #reload. So from a different perspective, it wasn't changed at all.

[Soviet Bear]

It brings more variety to the game. I'd say that implementation is the most important thing and the way Hellfire works seems to have been carefully considered. If you're arguing about it punishing good players, then I'd say dizzy status is also a problem for rewarding players that were already winning. It's a thing, the rules on how it works are clear, so it's just another rule you have to keep in mind when fighting. If you keep losing to Hellfire, you would have lost to something else if Hellfire wasn't a thing. IMO, it's new so people are looking for something to blame, ignoring similar old mechanics in the process.

 

Also, it's fun to do a raw Heavenly Potemkin Buster while in Hellfire and the opponent is on full health.

[mAceOfHearts]

The damage buff isn't anywhere near significant enough for it to be an issue. If anything, I like having my opponent in Hellfire mode so I can pull off IK combos and finish matches in efficient ways that are normally impossible. (Leo's (BT)D IK combo is a good example of this)

[Destin]

I think you're missing my point; you don't always want to make the trade (to move closer to a failstate in order to gain the mechanic) but if it is possible for said trade to be in your advantage (eg any time you'd rather be at 49% than 50% in a hypothetical situation where your mechanic cuts in at below half health). So long as the possibility for it you to be better off by having less health, it's a comeback mechanic. 

While this is true, it's value is so negligible because it will only prorate the first hit at that different rate before you dip into the next tier of damage reduction for all moves.  Now, if you kept you current guts state until the end of a combo I would agree it is a legit comeback mechanic, like that you could pop off some killer combos at 51% that would be impossible at 49%.  But as it is progressive it really just creates the appearance of a comeback mechanic, in almost all practical forms it's variable damage difference blends into a statistical "effective" health.  Unless you are playing pote, or maybe slayer.

[Gramas]

it depends on how good AND usefell a character OD is

 

I think ramlethal benefits the most of HF

[StylisH]

All I know is when I play, I don't find myself thinking "Man, this is rough.  All I need to do is last long enough to get Hellfire and I can nuke this guy's life bar" 

[Poultrygeist]

I forget hellfire even exists, given that I use my meter more for system stuff than supers.  With all of Xrd's issues like YRC OS and Danger Time, this seems like an inconsequential gripe.

[StylisH]

I forget hellfire even exists, given that I use my meter more for system stuff than supers.  With all of Xrd's issues like YRC OS and Danger Time, this seems like an inconsequential gripe.

 

My thoughts exactly

[Circuitous]

Yes, but they don't really change your gameplay.  I doubt potes (the person who seems most effected) are thinking of not going for that extra punch to not put them at the next level of guts to land a more powerful pote buster.  Your decisions and gameplay are rarely effected by guts, so it's not really a comeback mechanic.

 

I will absolutely end a combo early if I can get them right to 51% and then reset into Buster. That is a thing I think about.

[qwerty]

I don't see hellfire as a comeback system, if you do you might as well add bursts and tension pulse in there since they also give you more benefits for being in a low life range (faster meter gain and faster burst return).

 

Those are comeback mechanics, just very well designed ones.

 

Hellfire I wouldn't say is as refined as those, but it's also not that significant, anyways. The extra damage is partially offset by the opponent's guts if they're low on health.

 

This is based on observation alone, but it seems like the opponent's tension pulse increases when they get hit by Hellfire supers, as well.

[MoralHazardPay]

The thing with Hellfire is that it means I'm guarenteed in any long set to eat multiple wake up Elphet supers for half my life. No way around it.

[Poultrygeist]

The thing with Hellfire is that it means I'm guarenteed in any long set to eat multiple wake up Elphet supers for half my life. No way around it.

What Elphelt worth anything is gonna use meter on wakeup supers?

[Destin]

I will absolutely end a combo early if I can get them right to 51% and then reset into Buster. That is a thing I think about.

That makes me happy.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

The thing with Hellfire is that it means I'm guarenteed in any long set to eat multiple wake up Elphet supers for half my life. No way around it.

 

Bait and punish. If you eat one every ten matches or so, you're still coming out on top, IMO.

[StylisH]

What Elphelt worth anything is gonna use meter on wakeup supers?

 

None. Trust me on that.