AC: Lockdown and Pressure

[Shoto]

- Thread Overview -

Page 1:

- TK Bomber Input

- Uses of TK Bomber

Page 2:

- TK Bomber Input (continue)

- Slashback and 6H

Page 3:

- additional TK Bomber input variants

- Note on long range pressure

-------------------------

- Lockdown and Pressure -

CONTENT:

I. The Corner Rush

-1.) The Basic Patterns

-2.) Mixing in some Overheads

---a.) 6H

---b.) TK Bomber

---c.) Dust

-3.) Working with 3P

-4.) Including 5H in your rush

-5.) Throw setups

---a.) The rensen [FRC] run up method

---b.) Tick Throws

---c.) 63214S [FRC]

-5.) The Unblockable (Rashousen)

-6.) Spinning the chain

II. Adjusting your rush

1.) Dealing with pushback / covering distance

2.) Dealing with the opponent

III. Midscreen Variations

-1.) General Notes

-2.) Midscreen Cross Up Variations

---a.) Using 63214S

---b.) Using Koku

IV. Long Range Pressure

-1.) 2P / S(f) Mixup

-2.) 2H

V. Starting the Rush

VI. Last Notes

[Shoto]

I. The Corner Rush

1.) The Basic Patterns

a.) 5K, 2D, rensen [FRC] (has the most reach of all variations)

b.) 2K, 2D, rensen [FRC] (2K ducks under many attacks)

c.) 3P, 2D, renesen [FRC]*

d.) 5K, S©, 2D rensen [FRC]**

e.) 2K, S©, 2D, rensen [FRC]**

f.) 5K, 3P, 2D, rensen [FRC]

* The trick is to push 3P for just a split second, then charge back

**Those two add a little more pushback but S© opens the door for new mixup, so keep them in mind

These are the patterns that allow you to go directly into a B-Loop if they hit at any point. If not, the blockstun the FRCed rensen causes will allow you to run up and try something new without endangering yourself.

These patterns are completely safe due to the lack of any kinds of gaps if not IBed (but you still have to look out for Bursts, DAAs, etc). The down part is they can all be blocked low. Thus they alone aren't enough to build a successful rush on.

2.) Mixing in some Overheads

a.) 6H

6H has to be blocked while standing while it’s forward momentum and frame advantage allow you to go on with your rush (and saves you tension as bonus).

A 6H can be done after a S© (like in basic variation d. and e.) without endangering you too much (it becomes even safer after a 5H, but we’ll cover that one later). For some more mixup do the 2H after the S© every now and then before going on with the 6H. This adds two low hitting hits right before the 6H.

The main reason you should include 6H in your rush is because it forces the enemy to block high and still allows you to keep on rushing. Nevertheless as the guardstun it causes it not as huge as the guadstun form a blocked rensen [FRC] it cuts down the options you have afterwards and actually gives the opponent a gap to do something if he expects it.

Basically the only really save option to follow up with after a 6H is 5K, 2D (which even combo right away if the 6H hits on CH), but as soon as they have learned that there is no chance of getting away right after they blocked the 6H if you don't want them to, they should not be too willing to try anything fancy. This should allow some more stuff, such as 3P or 2K with all their possible follow ups.

Should you end up in a distance where you are too far away for a 5K to connect, so that the opponent should be aware he is in no direct danger, you can throw out S(f)* which still connects in that range and may catch incautious enemies off guard (for that case start charging back during 6H so that you can follow up with rensen after the S(f)). It can work wonders against some players, so be sure to not forget about this one!

*Go to the Long Range Pressure part of this post to learn more what else you can do from a blocked S(f).

b.) TK Bomber

aa.) Input

There are several ways to input a TK Bomber. While right now I would recommend method 3, all of those work if practiced for a while.

(1) 9623H: You input the jump, and try to end the input the instant your jump startup (4Frames) ends.

(2) 69874123H: The 360 method. Try to input it as fast as possible to keep the bomber as low to the ground as possible (still it seems to create slightly higher bombers)

(3) 6321473H: My favourite input^^. A bit harder than method (3) but therfore gets the bomber lower and feels more reliable than the first method.

(4) 62369H: The real TK Bomber.

bb.) Applications

Since the TK Bomber does not have a too good forward momentum it requires some very specifc setups. The only risk free way of integrating it into your rush is after an FRCed rensen, as the enemy will be in block stun for quite some time. Just run up and do the TK Bomber when you’re in reach. If your enemy is passive and anxious to break free you may use it in some other frame advantage situations like after a blocked 6H or you may even do two TK Bombers in a row (if the distance allows it).

Should the bomber get blocked you still hold the advantage, but due to the pushback you are somehow limited in your options. Depending on your distance you should be able to continue with 5K/2K, 2D, rensen. If your too far away the only option to continue rushing is 2D, rensen [FRC] or a S(f) whith its possible follow ups (see the long range pressure part).

Nevertheless against cornered oppoents this move is extremly valuable, as if it hits you can go into a tensionless and extremely damaging b-loop (and that even from an overhead^^).

Note: The higher you do the bomber the more distance it travels (at least if you go with option 1). While generally you should do it as low as possible (since it takes less time and thus gets harder to block and harder to escape), if it is just about that little edge of range more, simply delay the H input a fraction. One example: run up, 5K (next to the opponent), 2S, TK Bomber

c.)Dust (5D)

There are actually only a few real setup for Axls 5D, and they are indeed pretty weak as 5D is just too slow. So to make it work you must "suprise them".

2H has two hits, both have a gatling into 5D. So basically he has to decide if he has to block 2 hits low before the overhead comes or only one. Nevertheless it would end your rush where a 6H would allow you some more pressure. So even that it is safe it stays some sort of lucky shot that will only work if you enemy is not prepared for it. If one of the hits of 2H hit the stagger allows it to combo, depending on your opponents ability to mash.

Another setup is doing a 5K in near max range (where only a 2D, i.e. a low hitting move, would connect if you would go with the "usual" pattern) and then go for a 5D. Ends your rush as well.

3.) Working with 3P

This one works a bit different. The most useful (for a rush) gatlings after 3P are into 2D (which comboes) and into 6H (which covers distance and has to be blocked while standing). Furthermore it has a gatling into 2H with its two low hitting hits which both have a gatling into 6H. So the enemy has to decide if he has to block one or two hits low until the overhead comes (nevertheless usually it is better to go with the two hits, as the second hit drags the opponent in again which means you can follow up with 5K instead of only S(f)).

Nevertheless, the high frame advantage of 3P and the fear your opponents should have of getting hit with rensen [FRC] combo or a CH 6H should allow you some more stuff:

Doing another 3P right after the first 3P (or after 5K into 3P) work as a sort of frametrap (but causes more puspack and may cause a follow up 2D to whiff).

Doing a short dash after 3P then following up with a second may help you to improve your position and may catch impatient players of guard if they believe you running up may give them the chance to escape (but if they actually await it the gap is actually big enough to break free).

DW: The gatlings into f.S and 2H are also very useful:

-2H, while not a faster low option than 2D, is DEFINITELY better in terms of range, guard bar, and blockstun, and the FRC can be used to set up frame traps or tick throws (Also note that 3P in and of itself is semi-viable as a tick throw), as well as other shenanigans, such as an IAD or raeisageki (not recommended against Sol). In addition, 2H's pull-in effect can make a 6H attempt more viable, and the move gatlings into dust after either hit at any point.

-f.S as a gatling is more for longer range attempts, but, if cancelled late, can also probe attempted jumps (getting your sweep jumped over is terrible, since it has so much recovery) AND attempted pokes after IBing the 3P, without committing to a 6H (The latter nets you stagger into rensen). At far ranges, this is also VERY safe, as the end of the move isn't a hittable box for Axl. I've also found that, from up close, the combo into rensen seems more hit-confirmable from this than from sweep.

4.) Including 5H in your rush

The greatest advantage of 5H is that if you cancel it or follow up with a gatling afterward, is that the blockstun it causes is greater than S©, which makes the gap for non comboing follow ups smaller. The follow ups are the same as for S©, exept for 2H.

If done right after a S© this will double the stress on you opponent. He was just looking out for all the possible variations you can do after S© just to have to realize that he is now again in another mixup situations. Nevertheless the pushback is a little higher, which means if you follow up with 6H, you won't be able to follow up with 5K, 2D from there. Nevertheless you still have the mixup from S(f).

Another way is going from 5K or 3P directly into 5H. In both cases 5H doesn't combo but it creates a gap that is just a little to small for a character to do something and it deals less pushback than doin it right after 5K/2K, S©. If your opponent tries something nevertheless he will likely end up being hit by the 5H.

5.) Throw setups

a.) The rensen [FRC] run up method

Another method is to get your opponent into blockstun with a FRCed rensen (see the Basic Variations) then run up (FD-brake if necessary) and throw him right after he gets out of blockstun (and the 5 frames of post blockstun throw invincibility have ended). As this will only work if your opponent is expecting a high / low variation use it very seldom or you'll get counterthrown!

b.) Tick Throws

They center around putting the enemy in blockstun / hitstun then run up (FD-brake if necessary) and throw them as soon as the stun and the follow up frames of throw invincibility are over. There are two suitable moves. The first is 2K. Even that it is the faster one and has less pushback, thus giving the enemy less time to react to the throw. This one is the more obvious option as you only can either follow up with the regular pattern or run up and throw. After a knockdown or a rensen FRC where it should be no problem getting right next to your opponent since he will be in blockstun long enouch you can even do a running 2K and then directely go into a throw without having to run up again.

The other option is 3P (or even 5K, 3P). The pushback is higher and it gives you frame advantage, leaving your opponent in blockstun for longer, so that they have more time realizing what you're up to. Nevertheless as you have you have more options after a 3P than after a 2K they should need more time to make their decision, and won’t be that suspicious if you start running after connecting the move.

Which one works better is player dependent. Beginners may be ignorant of the different options you have after 3P and just mash throw as soon as they realize you're running up, while an experienced player may always be aware of an throw attempt after a 2K, as it is a rather obvious setup.

As soon as your opponents get used to your tick throws, just instead of throwing after you ticked them, run up until you are nearly in throw range and then pressure again. If they awaited the throw and tried to countherthrow you they will now end up in a combo. If not you'll get your pressure attempt anyway. Just be cautions when they start trying to poking you out of it. Then go back to the safer patterns.

Keep in mind that Axls short range pokes are genreally slow, thus tick throws don't work as good for him as for other charas.. but you have to work with what you got.

c.) 63214S [FRC]

One last method for landing a throw is using the FRC point of Axls 63214S. This is an move that has to be blocked high, and usually crosses up the enemy (not in the corner of course [exept if you do it after 2P, as it drags the enemy out of the corner; can be combined with this setup as well^^]). You can FRC it right before it would normally hit. The first reflex of an opponent who sees this move is usually to block high. If you now FRC the move and simply land and throw, chances are good he won't react to it. Good points to use it are after a blocked 2D or 3P or 5H or S(f). Nevertheless, If your enemy awaits it he can counterthrow you on reaction once he sees the FRC, so use it sparingly (it basically is a gimmick, so don't rely on it).

5.) The Unblockable (Rashousen)

Your opponent already needs to decide whether to block high or low after he spotted the S© or a 5H. If you take the unblockable ([4], 6H) in the mix, he'll have one more option to worry about. In most cases he will block low while trying to spot the 6H after he spotted the S© or 5H.

A few other things may help to improve the success of you UB setups: Try to do it close to the opponent. The more distance there is between you and the blocking enemy the faster he will expect a gap (while this is often an advantage for Axl, in this situation it isn't). Try to do something "unusual"; like run up after a rensen [FRC], just do 5H, UB or start with a 2K tick then short dash, pressure into UB. It just has to look "diffrent" even that it is nothing special. If you actually scored a hit with the pattern before it comes to the UB, chances get even lower they will jump out (as they believe they are already in a combo), but that is usually out of your hand .

Furthermore it works better on charas with increased jump start up (such as ABA, Pot, Slayer, R-Ky).) or those whose players are used to block a lot due to lacking defensive options (for example: AX, JO, FA).

The golden rule: Never let the opponent get used to it and never overuse it.

A few words about the feint: This near the feint isn't the best idea. Your point is to deceive your opponent into blocking, so only use the UB if you actually want it to hit, not to force a jump reaction. If he is near enough to hit you out of it with a fast attack, he is not likely to jump anyway. If you want to use it anyway in this situation, do it after some pattern that leaves you with a little distance and is quite obvious: a S(f), UB [feint] may be a good idea as well as doing it after any of the basic patterns instead of the rensen. As soon as they jump catch them with a 6K + follow up combo.

Should they start to just sit and wait since they get used to the feint, just mix in some real UBs (but don't overuse them; the only thing what keeps them from attacking is the fear that you may have feinted and the jump right into your anti air combo).

6.) Spinning the chain

An enemy that knows Axls rush, will know that after a non FRCed rensen, you won't be able to rush anymore. So he usually will try to escape the corner or try to attack after he sees one. But actually there is one last option left that Axl has after the rensen: the tap 2 follow up. So If he will try to break free to early, he'll get hit. This follow up actually hits low. So even If he's still blocking after the rensen itself, you may nevertheless score a knockdown if he doesn't block while crouching.

Nevertheless this is not a very strong setup. This is your only remaining option after an unFRCed rensen, so your opponent just has to wait a split second longer while blocking low.

This makes it an setup you should use very sparingly (more sparingly than any other setup listed here) if you want it to work.

Should the last hit whiff (what can be easily happen if your opponent FDs it) you end up with a frame disadvantage (but only few charas will be able to punish you with more than a fast long / medium range poke; but watch out for fast projektils; especially if they knock you down [like Eddies Drills]). As long as the last hit gets blocked the disadvantage is so minor that it usually shouldn't endanger you.

II. Adjusting your rush

1.) Dealing with pushback / covering distance

Usually, a FRCed Rensen should always give you enough time to run up and try something new. Nevertheless sometimes this isn't an option. So you have to come up with methods to cover some distance in your rush.

The good thing: These methods will add to you're mixup and may even help you save tension. So keep it in mind even that you're still near enough to do other stuff.

The bad thing: They creates gaps that your opponent may utilize to escape. So to speak it's always some sort of mindgame, even that the risk involved is usually not that high (no instant punishment, but you loose the initiative).

One method of reducing distance is doing short dashes between some moves. For example do a 5K, then a very short dash, than 5K again and now follow up with the actual pattern. There is a gap, but it's hard for the enemy to actually utilise it, as he will await the rest of the pattern after the first 5K.

The same works with 3P (or even 5K, 3P), usually even better, as it gives you frame advantage and they have to look out for more stuff after a blocked 3P.

A third variation is rather plump: Right after the rensen [FRC] simply do a dash and cancel it into 6H. This should bring you near again. But if expected things like a simple 6P will hit you out (nevertheless in most cases you should be able to go on with something if the FRCed rensen actually hit so doing a 6H in this situations is maybe more of a mixup thing).

Then there comes the wacky stuff. If you know your opponent will not go for any fancy stuff you can do things like two 6H in a row or do thinks like 5K, 3P then short dash and a go on with another pattern (even that that such things only work if you've connected the 3P right next to your opponent). This stuff leaves relatively large gaps, but as you end your first pattern with a frame advantage move you can succeed with it, as your enemy knows that there is no chance of escaping if you go for a fast pattern. Never use such patterns against scrubs, as they won't aware of that in the first place. So or so this is nothing that you can throw out on a regular basis (but it actually helps getting overly passive players with good defence to actually try something and finally get hit by one of the safer patterns).

One last thing: Even that you eventually can extend your rush, don't push it. If the rush is over, it's over even that you got tension left! Go back into long range poke mode and catch him off guard.

2.) Dealing with the opponent

a.) General Weak Spots

Actually except the gaps you leave to deal with the pushback and such obvious risk stuff as tick throws or the UB the only real weak spot is the 6H. You can't do it from to near or you’ll get thrown afterwards and If you do it from to far away you may be hit out by a 6P or any other fast or invincible move on reaction (what may also happen if you’re just too predictable with it).

You need to get a feeling for the distance and adapt to the behaviour of your opponent to minimize these risks. Furthermore, even if you follow up with 5K after the 6H, there is still a gap big enough for a backdash. So be aware of this if you connect the 6H midscreen and even in the corner if you face characters with a very good backdash. It won't endager you, but it will end you rush.

b.) Faultless Defence

FD will kill your rush completely. If the enemy will hold down FD the whole time, even using pattern with rather little pushback won't allow you to build up a proper rush for long. But actually your enemy is wasting his tension with it, so this isn't such a bad thing to happen. A good player on the other hand will just push your rush over the edge with a short period of FD at the right time. Actually you can't do anything against it, but to recognize it and stop rushing. In some cases you can still go on, by running up a bit longer (thanks to FD he will be a bit longer in blockstun) and selecting patterns with less pushback. But the moment a move won't connect (most likely the 2D or the rensen) stop the rush!

c.) Instant Block

As said before, 6H can be IBed "rather" easy*. Well that's it. If you see that your 6H has been IBed, get away from him. Best thing is to try a backdash, since that's the fastest method off getting out of throw range.

Nevertheless in most situations the risk for your opponent is quite high as he has to concentrate on high low mixup and on IBing the 6H (exept maybe after he blocked a 2H).. so if the player is not realy experienced with IB (or your mixup sucks :P) he is not too likely to try such stuff. If he goes for it anyway, use more 2D after S© /5H /3P.

d.) Slashback

There is one situation in which a Slashback is quite easy to do. If your enemy has blocked a 2H the “natural” follow up is 6H, so the only thing he has to concentrate on is this move which furthermore has lots of active time and is quite slow, making SBing it even a bit easier; SB is still a risk, but good players who know the matchup will be knowing of this. So don’t rely on the gatling into 6H too much and mixup with going for nothing at all or doing the 6H after the first hit or going for a 5D.

III. Midscreen Variations

1.) General Notes

a.) Greater Pushback

Outside of the corner, the rensen will push your opponent away increasing the distance you have to deal with (also the pushback of all other moves will be greater too). You could heavily rely on 6H in your pattern and use the things I wrote about dealing with pushback to extend your rush, but don't push it. This is especially true for the TK Bomber, as you have to run up longer after the rensen [FRC] and the pushback of the Bomber itself is greater (furthermore if you don't score a CH you won't be awarded much damage even if it hits) which in most cases allows less mixup afterwards.

Generally spoken your enemy will get more chances to interrupt you due to the greater gaps and FD will work twice as good for him.

b.) Throw setups

Running up after an FRCed rensen to throw just takes too much time if done midscreen thanks to the greater pushback. It's just that split second longer a player needs to figure out what you're up to. The 63214S [FRC] won't do, as you're not likely to end up in throw range afterwards. Tick throws work as good (or as bad) midscreen as in the corner.

2.) Midscreen Cross Up Variations

a.) Using 63214S

This is rather easy, use one of the basic patterns and instead of the rensen [FRC] do 63214S or do it directly after 3P or a S(f). This will cross the enemy up. If you hit follow up with a rensen for extra damage. Even if it gets blocked you stay absolutely safe as long as there is some distance between you and your opponent.

If you want the 63214S to cross up against a - cornered opponent - your only chance is 2P. Either do it standalone or after a S©. It drags the opponent just a little bit away from the wall, so that the move will acutally cross them up. Nevertheless if it doesn't hit you are near enough for your opponent to punish you.

Keep in mind that if expected it is possible to air throw you out of it before it gets active(this is especially an issue in longe range mixup as there your opponent has to worry about few diffrent options). To make that harder for your opponent you can use moves with deal much block stun and cancel them into 63214S. Works best with 5H, but even there at least charas with 3 frames (or less) startup on their jumps will still be able to air throw you (even that it is damn hard and if they fail they will be hit, so this may work in your favour). Nevertheless, characters who have more than usual jump startup (ABA, Pot, Slayer, R-Ky etc.) shouldn't have a chance.

b.) Using Kokku (63214S while airborne)

This is easy to explain, but somehow hard to execute. You use one of the basic patterns, and do an IAD right after the S© which is JCable. After you just crossed the enemy you input 63214S [FRC]. If you hit go on with a short air combo. If you score a CH, you don't even need to FRC. If you don't hit, you still have to FRC to be save afterwards, so this pattern should only be used if you have 25% Tension ready. (Btw.: Koku [FRC], Kokku hits more often than it should ^^, but in general Koku crossups setups are not that reliable, as they are rather easy to spot and of course they cost you tension with no real gain if you don't succed).

IV. Long Range Pressure

1.) 2P / S(f) Mixup

The two hits of 2P give you enough time to get a charge for the rensen or the UB. Furthermore a the second hit pulls them in again as long as you can connect both hits (every hit that is near max range) you have the following mix-ups available:

a.) rensen

b.) 63214S (follow up with rensen if it hits)*

c.) unblockable [feint]

d.) unblockable

Since your opponent only has to look out for few variations the chances are good that he will recognize the UB. So using the feint is your first choice. The sight of the UB should make him jump which you can counter with a 6K (which he has to block using FD). Depending on the distance you should be able to combo from the 6K. If you're too far away a short dash before the 6K could help, but opens you for attacks against aggressive players.

If the tension gauge of your opponent is nearly empty chances a good he will not even have enough to FD both hits (especially if he starts FDing as soon as he leaves the ground what some anxious player do) even if he should think of it making this setup bascially unblockable^^.

The "unfeinted" unblockable is not safe if spotted, but as the have to await the feint as well, a direct attack is not likely (if the player keeps attacking you in this situation, rely on the feint and 6K + follow up combo him to death).

63214S should leave you in a safe distance afterwards, not endangering you if it gets blocked. As already said an air throws are an issue here. If it hits, follow up with a rensen.

All these variations work for S(f) as well, but since you have to get a charge before the move connect for the rensen or the UB as the time the S(f) needs to execute is just not long enough. Therfore if you scored a CH with it the rensen will combo.

* For 2P this one works even against cornerd oppoents, as the second hit drags them out a little bit.. but as you end up right next to them if they block it you'll get punished.

As you can see there are only a few options that can be done in that range, so don't press it too much. Having them wait as they fear a follow up after 2P will give you a little advantage in your poke game and always going for mixup will get you killed so don't push the long range mixup stuff too hard.

2.) 2H

2H is quite staightforward. It has two hits which both have a gatling into 6H or 5D.

Used for mixup that means that your enemy has to decide if he has to block two low hits before he has to block high again. Not a too great mixup as both overheads can be blocked on reaction but quite worthy.

Nevertheless in many case the better choice is to go with the second hit of 2H anyway, as it drags the opponent in again, thus if you follow up with a 6H you end up in close range and have the frame advantage from the 6H. This even applies if you already have scored a hit on the opponent, giving you a little combo and a rushdown attempt*.

The gatling from 3P into 2H finally allows you to start pressure from a max range 3P.

* go to the "2.) Mixing in some Overheads" chapter to see what you can do from there

V. Starting the Rush

The most obvious way to start a rushdown is any sort of knockdown which allows you to get to the oppoent before he may get up. Look out for reversals but chose as a starter every option you like.

While at a distance a hit with 2H should allow you to follow up with a 6H, allowing you to start your rush from there. Through the gatling into 2H or 6H a max range 3P should allow some sort of followup pressure as well.

Jumping in with a proper timed and spaced j.S (both hits have to connect) should allow starting with a 5K, 2D, rensen [FRC]. If you time it right an already scored a hit with j.S this even leads to a combo. Furthermore as the oppoent should be aware of the frame advantage j. S works as a sort of mixup oportunity for itself (so if you exspect him to block you can use the UB / 6H etc.

If you do the j.S from some distance (so that the 5K won't connect) you still can go for 2P mixup.

Furthermore a jump In with an Axl bomber should give you enough frame advantage to follow up with some stuff as well.

VI. Last Notes

Remember, you have to mix up all the stuff you have, since if you only go for your most rewarding setup the enemy will await and counter it. Try to adjust to the behaviour of you opponent and change or adjust your patterns accordingly. If he is patient and blocks a lot, keep the mixup high. If he is offensive and wants to hit you out or to jump away, go for the save basic patterns that lead to the big damage^^.

If something needs clarification or is missing or you don't agree with me on some issues feel free to post^^.

[Kai]

So I've been playing AC all day, if you guys want me to confirm something let me know!

[Digital Watches]

Agreed with Kai, although it doesn't seem as bad as it was in Slash. Also: TK bomber as an overhead = Far too good.

[Kai]

Yeah, its definitely better than in slash with the addition of FRC. Also I noticed the best way to hit the tk bomber as close to the ground as possible is using the 6321478963 motion. Basically do a 360 starting from 6 but end at 3. Its really reliable.

[Digital Watches]

I dunno, now that the minimum height seems to be gone, I just do a standard TK, 6239H

[Kai]

I tried that method and yes it works, but the 360 method is much more consistent. I mean it comes down to preference, but try it out and let me know how it works for you. I got crazydaze to try it and he seemed to have a much easier time doing it with the 360 method.

[CrazyDazed]

I got crazydaze to try it and he seemed to have a much easier time doing it with the 360 method.

Confirming this. I was breaking my hand trying to do old style TKs (9623) until Kai told me to try 360s and I got it on first try and Axl did bomber with less than an inch off the ground. It is much, much easier, and it also lets me combo two (or more) bombers in a row with ease.

[axel]

Very interesting. I shall try it out tomorrow in the arcade against my friends. Speaking of which, anyone here thinks it's viable to do another TK Axl Bomber after a blocked TK Axl Bomber?

[Shoto]

Yeha, the TK Bomber Input is geiving me a headdache.. 9623H gets the bomber quite low, and comboing two of them against Dizzy isn't a problem with it. Nevertheless the "real" TK input 62369H should be the better way to do it.. I just not could make it work till now. I'll try the 360 Input^^. EDIT: ok, 62369H works.. finally fiured it out^^. Right now I'm looking for places to integrate the TK Bomber in my rush.. right now I just thought about doing it after a blocked rensen FRC, run up.. or maybe after a blocked 6H as there the enemy is likely to block anyway. The 360 input works.. but I have the feeling I get slightly lower Bombers with my 9623H input but that could be to lack of practice^^.. btw.: sorry for the mess in the starting post.. still editing ..

[ba_roto]

How about 923H? Ok i'll try the 360 input too.

[Shoto]

I always though that’s how I input the bomber in Slash but the Input display said that there seems to be a 6 input.. I think It just happens when you input the 9.. so it should work as well^^.

[Digital Watches]

Speaking of which, anyone here thinks it's viable to do another TK Axl Bomber after a blocked TK Axl Bomber?

I've done it once, but I think it'd only really be good if your opponent is REALLY expecting a low afterwards, has bad reaction time, and doesn't attempt to beat whatever you do next after blocking the first one (Which is fairly safe on block if TK'd low.)

[vegta12]

wtb easier TK with axl bomber. my only problem still ;(

[Digital Watches]

wtb easier TK with axl bomber. my only problem still ;(

I'd still say the easiest TK bomber is 62369, a standard TK DP.

[Shoto]

Personlly I like 9(6)23H best.. I'd say choose the method you like best and practice it.

[vegta12]

yeah 9(6)23H is what ive been doing which i can get low, but idk i still need to get use to it i guess.

[Wicked Cricket]

I do the 9(6)23 as well. Problem with it was for a long time the fact that I didn't input the 23 as a "23" but only as a 3. My hands just didn't want to do it. So everytime I use it now, I have to really think about the fact that I must do the last part of the motion in a fluid way. But hey that's what happened to me.

[Shoto]

Just a short note: I had to experience in VS that any 2H, 6H pattern allows to slashback the 6H easily and nearly riskfree, as the 2H in most cases allows no other mixup (which leads to an punishment combo).. so try to vary it (i.e. do the 6H after the first hit from time to time) or delay it (of course this means it is no real pressure trap anymore as he could jump out but if he focuses on SB he is not likely to do that anyway^^) and don’t overuse it in the first place :P (even that it is so good on so many levels^^).. will put a note in that in the guide as soon as I find the time..

[Digital Watches]

Just a short note: I had to experience in VS that any 2H, 6H pattern allows to slashback the 6H easily and nearly riskfree, as the 2H in most cases allows no other mixup (which leads to an punishment combo).. so try to vary it (i.e. do the 6H after the first hit from time to time) or delay it (of course this means it is no real pressure trap anymore as he could jump out but if he focuses on SB he is not likely to do that anyway^^) and don’t overuse it in the first place :P (even that it is so good on so many levels^^).. will put a note in that in the guide as soon as I find the time..

Or FRC the 2H occasionally. The FRC makes it a lot more viable for pressure games.

[Shoto]

hm.. since in AC Axl finally has enough tension to burn I should give that FRC another try in VS :P

[Shoto]

got a new method of doing TKs from a Baiken player: 6321473H.. my favourite input right now^^. Low and reliable^^.

[JEKKI]

I thought I saw in sum youtube video the input being 62393 or 623693 something like that... it works great on a sanwa cab for me!! I didnt think I saw those inputs in the other Axl thread with the whole strategy outline...

[Saros]

got a new method of doing TKs from a Baiken player:

6321473H.. my favourite input right now^^. Low and reliable^^.

I was just going to post that after reading the first two pages. That input has been around for ages in multiple games and I was surprised no one thought of it.

I do use that sometimes for Baiken for TK YZZ, but I find it comes out TOO fast and I can't double jump after that :X (for tech throwing)

In the context of Axl however, lower is better, so I second the recommendation for using 6321473H.

Please note that 321473H works as well, but use whatever you feel comfortable with.

[Digital Watches]

Actually, I've gotten 6963 to work, and hit very low, but don't rely on it.