Let's have a calm and honest discussion about Blitz Shield

[Destin]

Yeah the best reason I could think of a reason to put it in is Pot for his horrible matchups, and to give a way out of eddie's unblockables. 

 

I had thought perhaps it should blowback on hit or something like that instead of put in combo state?

[HardSlash]

It sounds like most of the discussion has turned into BS being too strong, and I was kind of racing my brain on how to make it less so, and an idea came to me rather than change the meter it costs or the damage proration or the active window, perhaps it could change the hitstun of the follow up attack to only allow one hit.

I'm not sure how they'd do that for grounded moves, but if the opponent is airborne it could let them recover very quickly. This way it becomes less of a "now I get a combo on you" move, and something a notch or two above DAA on terms of risk/reward.

[Nyaa]

BS would cover a situation where someone set up a projectile OKI and jumped in (not safejump) with FD to beat a wakeup DP.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

Blitz was most likely added as another way to help out newer/weaker players by giving them a way to deal with the strong offense in GG.

[D.R.F.]

Blitz is nice to have, but the grotesque punishment for messing up keeps me from using to much. Which is nice

[Hollysmoke]

I'm of the opinion that it was put in just because ASW felt like they needed to change things up somehow.  For the ENTIRE SERIES, characters without reversals have been designed specifically to play around that weakness by being strong in other areas.  It was how the game was balanced and part of what makes the characters different from one another.  It's not as if these characters suddenly needed a reversal, or even SlashBack, in order to remain competitive, which is pretty obvious when you look at Zato, Millia, and even Venom.  Hell, look at Axl.  One of the best reversals in the fucking game (god I fucking hate that move) yet he's not considered that great.  Utility-wise, the characters with good reversals don't need BS because they already have something equivalent, and the characters without good reversals don't need BS either because that's their punishment for good rushdown, doing gigantic damage, having amazing buttons, having screen-filling moves or what have you.  

 

Yes but YRC didn't exist either; when you're given so much freedom for offensive options, BS exists as a counter-measure to all that freedom as a defensive option. I feel like people will learn to play around BS; baiting it out to punish (and it is quite punishable) or timing it quite well for their advantage. I, personally like BS because it has visible play and counter-play mechanics attached to it, and I think removing the tension refund is a huge step in the right direction to toning it down in the right way.

[GSD-SPL]

Blitz was most likely added as another way to help out newer/weaker players by giving them a way to deal with the strong offense in GG.

I feel like the newer/weaker players are too scared to use it, myself included. Some of them flat out forget it's there too. I think you have to do some homework on your match-ups to really use it confidently. It really only seems more newb friendly on left/right based mix-ups, like Chipp FDC drop and Wall Cling oki.

[Xtra_Zero]

Am I the only one who doesn't see how BS balances YRC??  YRC isn't punished by BS, BS is punished by YRC.  BS punishes slow moves and certain types of predictable pressure and frametraps, but this is not anything new.  You could already do that up till now.  YRC creates more mixups, but not really any more BS-applicable pressure than was already in the game with FRC, with a few exceptions.  You know what punishes YRCs?  More YRCs.  Yeah that's right, the mechanic balances itself, because you can use it to bait moves, but also to cancel your baited move.  That back-and-forth is already built into the game, it doesn't need a separate mechanic.

[GSD-SPL]

Am I the only one who doesn't see how BS balances YRC??  YRC isn't punished by BS, BS is punished by YRC.  BS punishes slow moves and certain types of predictable pressure and frametraps, but this is not anything new.  You could already do that up till now.  YRC creates more mixups, but not really any more BS-applicable pressure than was already in the game with FRC, with a few exceptions.  You know what punishes YRCs?  More YRCs.  Yeah that's right, the mechanic balances itself, because you can use it to bait moves, but also to cancel your baited move.  That back-and-forth is already built into the game, it doesn't need a separate mechanic.

Is the start-up of BS affected by YRC? The Wiki doesn't list any start-up frames, so i'm assuming a standing BS is active on frame 1, for 12 frames. Is that 1 frame start up affected by slow-down like other stuff? If so, how many extra frames for the start-up of BS when someone YRCs, and other stuff in general. I think that'd be important to know.

 

I understand nothing about the RC slowdown other than "it slows you down".

[BagLunch]

BS is like Negative Penalty, except for Offense.

[Hollysmoke]

Am I the only one who doesn't see how BS balances YRC??  YRC isn't punished by BS, BS is punished by YRC.  BS punishes slow moves and certain types of predictable pressure and frametraps, but this is not anything new.  You could already do that up till now.  YRC creates more mixups, but not really any more BS-applicable pressure than was already in the game with FRC, with a few exceptions.  You know what punishes YRCs?  More YRCs.  Yeah that's right, the mechanic balances itself, because you can use it to bait moves, but also to cancel your baited move.  That back-and-forth is already built into the game, it doesn't need a separate mechanic.

 

No, you're not; I was just explaining what the intention behind the mechanic is. That's why its so janky at the moment.

[Xtra_Zero]

No, you're not; I was just explaining what the intention behind the mechanic is. That's why its so janky at the moment.

Was it explicitly stated somewhere?

[Destin]

The thing that gets me is I don't feel like blitz shield is poorly implemented, just unnecessary.

When AC had slash back, force breaks, wall sticks and ground slides, everything felt just kinda slapped on. Now that xrd has many of the same mechanics, they did a very good job of not making it feel just thrown in. Bs is a bit bs, but it doesn't offend my senses.

My other idea besides just blowback (full screen knockdown) would be blowback on just 6h and really big moves like bandit bringer.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

i'm surprised people aren't aware of the YRC os to beat Blitz-backs (blitzing while rejected), it's pretty dumb imo, same problems as yrc burst os

 

 

i haven't seen blitz used much in high level japanese play, idk why

 

After some experimenting, I'm surprised this isn't a bigger thing either. I had my suspicions when I saw a Millia player do it in a match (used BS as an anti air, went for 2HS after and YRCed when the other player tried to Return), and after testing it a little more, it's not only legit, but really powerful. Essentially, if you have the right amount of meter, it makes BSing at certain junctions a no-brainer, because you get guaranteed damage either way, and if the opponent attempts a Return, they take a much heavier punish than they would otherwise AND they lose the meter.

[Dude Butts]

For the ENTIRE SERIES, characters without reversals have been designed specifically to play around that weakness by being strong in other areas.  It was how the game was balanced and part of what makes the characters different from one another.

 

this too, in a big way.  

[Destin]

After some experimenting, I'm surprised this isn't a bigger thing either. I had my suspicions when I saw a Millia player do it in a match (used BS as an anti air, went for 2HS after and YRCed when the other player tried to Return), and after testing it a little more, it's not only legit, but really powerful. Essentially, if you have the right amount of meter, it makes BSing at certain junctions a no-brainer, because you get guaranteed damage either way, and if the opponent attempts a Return, they take a much heavier punish than they would otherwise AND they lose the meter.

How does it work?

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

Pretty much the same way the Burst OS works. Here's a vid.

 

http://youtu.be/FZ8fs-nEnYM

[daymendou]

Guaranteed 20% damage right here

 

http://youtu.be/6Ed5dzdFl6E

 

IKs can be rejected but the Hellfire Activate probably gives time to react