Bad Habits

[Hollysmoke]

Hello peeps, I wanted to do an open discussion about bad habits. I'm referring to game habits that, while they may be effective in other games, doesn't really flow into GG and gets you blown up. How do you guys get over bad habits? How do you spot and identify your own? Most importantly, what are some bad habits you see character specifically that you guys recommend people try and stop doing? For example, I'm not a Venom player but I know what Venom is capable of, and maybe he's doing something s/he, the player, is doing that I shouldn't be letting him get away with. Or like when Sol players think it's a good idea to try and full-screen Riot Stomp against I-No projectiles.

[king of heart]

Don't play your main against weaker opponents even if you didn't have a sub that you are comfortable with.

And always try to play against top players in your region because the can expose these habits and use it against you and that's how you polish your gameplay.

I learned that the hard way.

[GSD-SPL]

I've been trying to challenge people too directly with my buttons as Chipp. Not taking advantage of his speed / mobility enough. If I get my ass beat enough and really think about it I'll pick up things I need to change, more so if i'm just learning the game. As for other game, some times a short break has helped with muscle memory based habits. It can feel a bit invigorating and refreshing.

 

I'm still real low level at GG, but for other players, I've noticed a couple players use Dust quite a bit during their strings. I'll Super their Dust and hope they get the idea.

 

Refusing to use mains against anyone weaker than you, while simultaneously seeking stronger players to level up against is pretty selfish imo. Sandbagging with characters you don't have near as much experience with or aren't even comfortable with kinda defeats the purpose of a weaker player trying to level up against you. Whatever bad habits you think using your main against a weaker player be damned, a little selflessness can go a long way for player growth.

[Hollysmoke]

Refusing to use mains against anyone weaker than you, while simultaneously seeking stronger players to level up against is pretty selfish imo. Sandbagging with characters you don't have near as much experience with or aren't even comfortable with kinda defeats the purpose of a weaker player trying to level up against you. Whatever bad habits you think using your main against a weaker player be damned, a little selflessness can go a long way for player growth.

 

This is pretty true. I was playing with Bob earlier and it helped me discover some bad habits of my own that he was punishing me for. Once I stopped, I was able to get pressure going without getting punished as often and even win a couple matches. Was good practice, even if netplay. 

[Pomparomp]

Every rando Ky, Sol and Sin love to spam their high risk/high reward crap and it's left me with bad habits like using raw carcass raid at unsafe spacings against someone good at those characters when they aren't handing me knockdowns on a platter.

[Hollysmoke]

Every rando Ky, Sol and Sin love to spam their high risk/high reward crap and it's left me with bad habits like using raw carcass raid at unsafe spacings against someone good at those characters when they aren't handing me knockdowns on a platter.

At least they condition you to read overheads. I've gotten used to blocking and punishing them.

[Layer]

Recorded videos and watching myself generally helps. Whether it's on the PS4 or on Stream, watching some playbacks makes me realize what a shitty player I am.

[Grimsley-San]

Keep playing until I see a lot of those blue arrows ._.

[Xtra_Zero]

I sometimes still burst like it's BB CT lol

[Pomparomp]

Keep playing until I see a lot of those blue arrows ._.

 

What do those and the 4 looking thing mean anyway? I can't find a legend for those things anywhere.

[rubedo777]

What do those and the 4 looking thing mean anyway? I can't find a legend for those things anywhere.

It's a skill icon. Blue down arrows mean they're lower level, red up arrow means they are higher level. The other symbol you describe is something like an equal sign...

 

The system seems pretty flawed...I can beat someone like 5+ times in a row who is a down arrow but if they win one match, they suddenly become equal...yeah no.

 

Anyway I'm very good at noticing bad habits of players...and it really makes me cringe to see the kind of nonsense being done by online players. There are many players in particular that keep holding upback (especially the Ramlethal players). I remember throwing out the bedman teleport ball into 2K and some people always getting caught low and I"m thinking "why does this guy never block low". I eventually do another mixup and they immediately jump out...and then it becomes clear to me. The problem I have is that people are not learning from these very obvious mistakes.

 

The problem must be that a lot of these "bad habits" work for them online (I'm talking strictly about online players now), because netplay allows them to get away with all kinds of things. The thing is that even if I get away with something due to netplay, it should be apparent that I shouldn't have gotten away with it. Why these players continue to center around tactics that work well online but fall apart offline, I don't know...looks like more interested in stealing matches they have no business winning instead of learning the game.

 

tldr, netplay sucks

[Hollysmoke]

It's a skill icon. Blue down arrows mean they're lower level, red up arrow means they are higher level. The other symbol you describe is something like an equal sign...

 

The system seems pretty flawed...I can beat someone like 5+ times in a row who is a down arrow but if they win one match, they suddenly become equal...yeah no.

 

Anyway I'm very good at noticing bad habits of players...and it really makes me cringe to see the kind of nonsense being done by online players. There are many players in particular that keep holding upback (especially the Ramlethal players). I remember throwing out the bedman teleport ball into 2K and some people always getting caught low and I"m thinking "why does this guy never block low". I eventually do another mixup and they immediately jump out...and then it becomes clear to me. The problem I have is that people are not learning from these very obvious mistakes.

 

The problem must be that a lot of these "bad habits" work for them online (I'm talking strictly about online players now), because netplay allows them to get away with all kinds of things. The thing is that even if I get away with something due to netplay, it should be apparent that I shouldn't have gotten away with it. Why these players continue to center around tactics that work well online but fall apart offline, I don't know...looks like more interested in stealing matches they have no business winning instead of learning the game.

 

tldr, netplay sucks

 

This is what I wanted to start this thread; I was curious as to what people have noticed or do themselves so we can avoid it. We could even be doing it unintentionally but someone else may notice. For example I like to badly space bandit revolver sometimes and get thrown. Then do it all again

[madigawadesperate]

my bad habit is thinking someone is not going to spam dp on wakeup and get with it 3 times in a row because i expect them to have a fucking brain 

[Hollysmoke]

my bad habit is thinking someone is not going to spam dp on wakeup and get with it 3 times in a row because i expect them to have a fucking brain 

 

Maybe they conditioned you to think they were going to DP? Dun dun duuuuuuuuun. I do this sometimes. Then the 3rd time it's something else and throws them off. 

What you kno' bout me, whatcha whatcha kno' bout me. They said my DP is on fire, my DP be poppin', I'm standin' in the corner, all the Ky's be blockin'.

[Dude Butts]

ending all my pressure strings with jump cancels on block, easily my worst habit.

[Xtra_Zero]

For example I like to badly space bandit revolver sometimes and get thrown. Then do it all again

Don't worry, in Japan even if you space it properly you'll still get BSed.  Just don't use the move. *shrug*

[madigawadesperate]

Maybe they conditioned you to think they were going to DP? Dun dun duuuuuuuuun. I do this sometimes. Then the 3rd time it's something else and throws them off. 

What you kno' bout me, whatcha whatcha kno' bout me. They said my DP is on fire, my DP be poppin', I'm standin' in the corner, all the Ky's be blockin'.

 

No, it's just constant knockdown dp

[rubedo777]

I'm not one of these people but there's many that are mashing throw, like constantly. They seem to abandon blocking entirely if you are anywhere close to them. Even if you space your normal just outside throw range, you still see them get hit or in some cases even whiff stand H.

 

To be honest I think too many people read Digital Watch's article about throws and got the wrong idea...I think the article was overexaggerated and sensationalized and now we got tons of people mashing throws. I think it's really scrubby and also shows a lack of awareness (atleast the way they are doing it). The chance of mistiming your throw and eating a 2K, or getting baited with jumps or whatever other methods, makes throwing a big risk in a number of situations. It still has uses, particularly if you are able to react to someone's misinput/misspacing of their meaties or jump attacks, but players need to block more overall.

 

Edit: Mashing throw also works better online, because it's easier to mistime/misspace your pressure, whereas mashing throw is not affected by online lag. People get away with this even in the slightest bit of lag messing up your pressure.

[Hollysmoke]

I'm not one of these people but there's many that are mashing throw, like constantly. They seem to abandon blocking entirely if you are anywhere close to them. Even if you space your normal just outside throw range, you still see them get hit or in some cases even whiff stand H.

 

To be honest I think too many people read Digital Watch's article about throws and got the wrong idea...I think the article was overexaggerated and sensationalized and now we got tons of people mashing throws. I think it's really scrubby and also shows a lack of awareness (atleast the way they are doing it). The chance of mistiming your throw and eating a 2K, or getting baited with jumps or whatever other methods, makes throwing a big risk in a number of situations. It still has uses, particularly if you are able to react to someone's misinput/misspacing of their meaties or jump attacks, but players need to block more overall.

 

The throw game has always been around in GG. That's why they're nerfing the YRC Command Grab OS. Getting baited into wake-up throw and punished for it is part of the game.

[APinkBuny]

I have 4 tips about breaking bad habits. I hope these tips give the OP the help he/she wanted and helps others.

1. When picking a main or even a sub. Spend 1 month in training mode. No online matches, no real matches. Understand the characters spacing, speed, and put combo's into muscle memory.

2. When fighting a person whether it be online or offline. When you get punished for doing a move its most likely unsafe. Stop this immediately.

3. Replays. Always, always, always re-watch your games after you done playing. Really look at what you doing and see what you could have done differently. Most importantly write down those changes on paper.

4. Frame data. Look at your characters frame data and now what is plus, minus, and really minus. Also look at other characters frame data and see what they are plus and minus on.

 

The biggest thing about bad habits is in general you don't know they are bad. If your losing say 80 to 90% of the time then 9 times out of 10. Your doing some thing wrong. There is some thing in game plan that is very unsafe and you MUST change it. The only way to do so is to do the steps above. 

 

I hope this helps.

[jimmy]

I have a couple very specific ones that I am aware of and working on. I play Millia and I think these are partially her fault :MIL:
 

When I'm pressured in the corner my default escape is to super jump straight up and then airdash out; the end result being that I'd land in the same place every time, and anyone who figured this out could sit at certain spots on the screen and punish either the airdash or the landing. Kinda problematic since Millia's airnormals aren't good enough to cover her landing, but I'm getting better with varying this.
 

Also, from about 1/2-3/4 screen away from the opponent I have a tendency to dash right in and try to 2K into a combo. I had to have someone tell me I was doing this all the time; otherwise I would not have noticed. I do this partially because it worked a few times in the past and I'm greedy and not satisfied with getting random fS hits into no damage but it's easily punished when predicted.

 

These are mostly movement and spacing habits where I fall into overusing a pattern that has worked in the past (including past games; both of these I think I partially got from F Arc in melty) and instead of playing mindfully, just doing things that my hands tell me to do. I think these kinds of habits are the hardest for me to become aware of because I too often think of fighting games in terms of buttons rather than movement

[Hollysmoke]

I have a couple very specific ones that I am aware of and working on. I play Millia and I think these are partially her fault :MIL:

 

When I'm pressured in the corner my default escape is to super jump straight up and then airdash out; the end result being that I'd land in the same place every time, and anyone who figured this out could sit at certain spots on the screen and punish either the airdash or the landing. Kinda problematic since Millia's airnormals aren't good enough to cover her landing, but I'm getting better with varying this.

 

Also, from about 1/2-3/4 screen away from the opponent I have a tendency to dash right in and try to 2K into a combo. I had to have someone tell me I was doing this all the time; otherwise I would not have noticed. I do this partially because it worked a few times in the past and I'm greedy and not satisfied with getting random fS hits into no damage but it's easily punished when predicted.

 

These are mostly movement and spacing habits where I fall into overusing a pattern that has worked in the past (including past games; both of these I think I partially got from F Arc in melty) and instead of playing mindfully, just doing things that my hands tell me to do. I think these kinds of habits are the hardest for me to become aware of because I too often think of fighting games in terms of buttons rather than movement

 

I've actually caught people trying to airdash out and Fafnir them right in the badonkadonkdonk. It's pretty satisfying, especially if they were pressing a button and it becomes a CH.

[indie_animator]

I have 4 tips about breaking bad habits. I hope these tips give the OP the help he/she wanted and helps others.

1. When picking a main or even a sub. Spend 1 month in training mode. No online matches, no real matches. Understand the characters spacing, speed, and put combo's into muscle memory.

2. When fighting a person whether it be online or offline. When you get punished for doing a move its most likely unsafe. Stop this immediately.

3. Replays. Always, always, always re-watch your games after you done playing. Really look at what you doing and see what you could have done differently. Most importantly write down those changes on paper.

4. Frame data. Look at your characters frame data and now what is plus, minus, and really minus. Also look at other characters frame data and see what they are plus and minus on.

 

The biggest thing about bad habits is in general you don't know they are bad. If your losing say 80 to 90% of the time then 9 times out of 10. Your doing some thing wrong. There is some thing in game plan that is very unsafe and you MUST change it. The only way to do so is to do the steps above. 

 

I hope this helps.

Sounds good, thanks.  I do 2 & 3 (except I don't write it down).  I picked a main around Christmas, when I got the game, and did all the various single player content (except MOM, which I'm still on) before online.  Tutorial was good.  And some missions.   I can only play on weekends, so one month of training...hmm. Not sure how much time I'd put in each Sat/Sun, but would feel odd refusing fight requests from PSN friends.  Frame data I see in character subforums sometimes, or I'll hear in video guides for characters.  I guess I can look it up in training this weekend, though.  I like improving in fighting games, but haven't done tourneys in a long time.

[APinkBuny]

You can find frame data for every character on dustloops wiki or 4gamer.

[susano]

...I still haven't played the game yet, even though I want to start learning. That's already a bad habit. ._,