[AC] May: Combo discussion thread

[Novix]

Quickly input 5S 5H (Just gatling the move as fast as possible. If you do it too fast then the game won't recognize both inputs) then hold down. Just try to do it standing first. If you need more help, watch this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBKDsp2zCBk

The vid has all (AFAIK) of may's common methods to starting up her lame loop, and the video conveniently has sound, so you can hear him tapping on his arcade stick.

[PhaethonH]

I just cannot find that time to charge I got the rest going fine....man I must really suck I don't get it.

Ever had your computer slow down massively, where what you're typing lags noticeably? There's an input buffer that lets the computer "store up" you what you press so that when it gets to where it can show stuff, all the "stored up" keys seem to suddenly flood through. But you can keep typing ahead, knowing that the sequence you press is the sequence they'll get through. So when you type 'm', 'a', 'y', you'll know that 'y' will show up after 'a' even if you don't see the 'm' come up yet.

A similar principle applies in S, H -> SVD: Gatling S into H without waiting/looking for hit sparks. Now, knowing that you have pressed , you can immediately hold even if you don't see May's upswing. The command you gave ("typed") was 5H, and holding the won't change the fact that a 5H has been committed to the input buffer. With the having been "queued up", you can start "queueing" the charge before you even see the starting. And when May's finally does hit (while you're holding ), the is fully charged and you give for the dolphin.

The timing between and is kind of tight. When I'm tired and fatigued, I tend to pull off S, 2H instead of S, H2, and miss the combo.

I can give a frame-by-frame commentary if needed.

EDIT: Oh, yeah, there's two ways to do this combo:

1) 5S[2], 5H~8S <- what Free described above

2) 5S, 5H[2], 8S <- what I described here

[Kyle]

Good find on the video. but there's an extra input I'm hearing that I don't understand. Plus, he's not Jump Installing. I feel like he's inputting 8, HS for the dolphin instead of 8HS.. You guys broke the combo down very efficently, but I'm going to paraphrase it really short to stress the point and hopefully Snoots gets it. Two tricks allow this to work 1- An input buffering system, which allows you to input [2] before you actually see the HS 2- A delayed special cancel between the HS and the SVD as you can special cancel the move later than the initial hit. This means that you can start earlier & Finish later. Together you have a comfortable window to input a full charge. Good hunting soldier, Kyle

[Snoots]

well, you guys are kinda awesome. I can't thank you enough, gonna get into the training room and figure this shit out. But, thanks for your constructive input, means a lot to me and well now i know that this site and you guys kick an amazing amount of ass.

[Kyle]

Big NewsFlash about combos. -When Dizzied, opponents fall faster. o.0 THIS is why it's so easy to drop combo's when they are stunned. Be on your toes with this everyone. -I also believe that I've found a more damaging punish.. I will verify this soon guys.

[Dogysamich]

-I also believe that I've found a more damaging punish.. I will verify this soon guys.

is it 5HS, 2D, Loop, cause if not it should be. XD

[blargster]

Big NewsFlash about combos.

-When Dizzied, opponents fall faster. o.0 THIS is why it's so easy to drop combo's when they are stunned. Be on your toes with this everyone.

-I also believe that I've found a more damaging punish.. I will verify this soon guys.

somewhat offtopic question on this one... now we all know how much we love the stun offa 6p <3... but if someone is already stunned.. does the stun from 6p apply at all still? cuz i got a beautiful corner combo on a already dizzied ky that involves 2x 6p's ^_^

[Kyle]

@Dogy-

5S, 2HS is much greater than HS, 2D BUT I've got something different than that. =P

@Blargster- If they are already dizzied there is really no point in doing 6P unless you want the tensionless non prorated launch, BUT, your going to have to spend tension to continue combo anyways... It does get lots of style point though.

If they opponent is dizzied and you have no tension than an OHK should be used.

If the opponent is dizzied and you have 25% your best damage option would be one of the following:

-6HS (Full Charge), RR, FRC, Loops

-5S, 2HS, FBSHD, Loops

-6P, 5S, JI, HS, HSVD, FRC, AirDash, J.HS, than the appropriate ender.

Ky only: 6P, 5S, JI, HS, HSVD, FRC, J.RR, Loop

More to come in the morning

UPDATES

I've spent 4 hours in training mode doing combos. My hypothesis was wrong... oh well.

@Dogy- 5HS, 2D is more damage at the start yes, but when it comes to the final loop it will not allow 5P, 5S, HSVD. Alternatively if you start with S, 2HS you can get the extra damage on the third loop. So, 5S, 2HS is more damage and has a MUCH bigger window to charge your dolphin.

[shinquickman]

If the opponent is dizzied and you have 25% your best damage option would be one of the following:

-6HS (Full Charge), RR, FRC, Loops

-5S, 2HS, FBSHD, Loops

-6P, 5S, JI, HS, HSVD, FRC, AirDash, J.HS, than the appropriate ender.

Ky only: 6P, 5S, JI, HS, HSVD, FRC, J.RR, Loop

If the opponent is not light and you don't got tension, then an ID combo is best, or even a dust fake combo might be good.

If opponent is dizzied and you got 25% tension:

VS Ky, Robo, Po, Anji, Test*, Eddie*: *(extremely time/space specific)

-6H (Full charge)>SVD, FRC, j.h, land 6H(slight charge)> loop. 80% damage for 25%.

Vs everyone (except Jam and Baiken AFAIK, difficult on Sol, HOS, Ky, and Robo):

-6H (full charge)>SVD, FRC, j.H ([2] after hit), land SVD, loop.

Still looking for a good way to punish ABA after 3 KDs. 6H tends to miss if you're too close, so if you do it further, you can't follow up!

I usually go for 2H>2D>SVD FRC, j.H, land to loop, but there should be stronger stuff out there.

Oh, BTW, 6P combos prorate 90% O_o

[Kyle]

6P prorates...damn that sux. Jorge, try this against ABA- S, JI, 2HS, 2D, FBHSVD, Airdash, J.S, J.HS, Land, SVD, P, S, SVD, P, S, SVD Half life and knocks down. With no tension 5[D] is your best damage combo guys.

[Dogysamich]

@Dogy- 5HS, 2D is more damage at the start yes, but when it comes to the final loop it will not allow 5P, 5S, HSVD. Alternatively if you start with S, 2HS you can get the extra damage on the third loop. So, 5S, 2HS is more damage and has a MUCH bigger window to charge your dolphin.

maybe that's why i dont notice it.

I tend to end with 2P, SVD, 6HS, FRC P_HS Hoop.

I like your idea better, because i like saving tension for more loops. >.>

[ArcLord_KisekiU]

6P prorates...damn that sux.

S, JI, 2HS, 2D, FBHSVD, Airdash, J.S, J.HS, Land, SVD, P, S, SVD, P, S, SVD

For that P, S, SVD, I know those are 5, but... u pre-charge 2, neutral 5p, 5s, then SVD like u do for the 5p, SVD loop ender? I didn't think u'd have enuff neutral time before u lose the charge, o_O. I haven't tested it yet.

[Kyle]

No pre-charge for this one. Actual, input is exactly like S, HS, SVD but much tighter. P~S~[2], Delay, 8+S

[ArcLord_KisekiU]

Ah ok, i'll try it out later, thx Kyle.

[shinquickman]

Version 01-28-09

::blows dust off:: Woah this thread is in need of a little brushing up.

I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this combo: the 2D>VHSD frc combos. when you go for j.2H okizeme, I think it's fairly practical since you no longer need to add 2P to hit confirm and to give you extra charge time. On average, these combos deal an extra 10 damage, and I think some of these are easier to land than the FB dolphin combo on some chars. Note: the following combos MUST be started from a jump-in or some means to JI or JI preserve. So, you can't do these if you double jump or air dash.

Also, there are many, MANY more variations to these combos. I am listing the ones I feel are more optimal damage wise and execution wise. All of them are guaranteed knockdowns unless otherwise stated.

Out of brevity, I'll just list the combos as Type A or Type B.

Chars which you can do Type A combos: PO, SL, ED(less damaging), TE, VE(difficult), CH(difficult)

Chars which you can do Type B combos: (Everyone on type A list, and) JA, BR, SO(tricky), OR(tricky), MI, IN(difficult), AN(difficult), MA(?), AX(tricky), BA, FA(difficult), ZA

Impossible:AB, DI, KY, RO, JO

Type A combos always starts like:

jump-in j.2H[2], land 2D>VHSD FRC, AD j.S>j.H[2] land whatever

Try to do your air dash and j.S as early as possible, or else you land too early and j.S won't link to j.H.

Type B combos always start like:

jump-in j.2H[2], land 2D>VHSD FRC, AD j.S(slightly delayed)>j.K(slightly delayed)[2], land VSD whatever

You have to time your j.S>j.K so that you land exactly after your j.K connects. The timing may be kinda tricky at first, but it's possible.

For every chars, the more optimal combo is listed above.

vs. Pot:

-Type A, VSD, land c.S[2]>5H>VSD, land 2P>c.S[2]>5H>VHSD

vs. Testament:

-Type B, land c.S[2]>5H>VSD, land 2P>c.S[2]>5H>VHSD (sometimes, the 2P is ommitable if launched high enough. Guaranteed knockdown if you time the 2P later)

Type A, VSD[2], land 5P VSD, land 5P>c.S[2]>5H>VSD, land 2P>VHSD

Type A, VSD, land c.S>5H[2]>VSD, land c.S>5H>VHSD (extremely spacing dependent. The opponent's gotta be dead in the corner)

vs. Eddie:

-Type B, land c.S>5H[2]>VSD, land 2P>c.S>5H[2]>VHSD (same as Testament)

-Type A, VSD[2], land 5P VSD, land 5P>[2]c.S>VSD, land 2P>c.S[2]>5H>VHSD* Italicezed part is only possible if Eddie is launched high enough. Either way, guaranteed knockdown.

-Type A, land c.S[2]>5H>VSD, land c.S[2]>5H>VSD, 2P>c.S[2]>5H>VHSD. More Damaging. Guaranteed knockdown.Extremely space specific.

vs. Slayer

Type A, VSD[2], land 5P VSD, land 5P>c.S[2]>5H>VSD[2], land 2P>VHSD (exactly like on Testament)

Type B, land c.S[2]>5H>VSD, land 2P[2]>VHSD (less damaging and trickier to do than Type A. skip it)

vs. Venom

Type B, land c.S[2]>5H>VSD, land 2P>c.S>5H[2]>VHSD (knockdown not always guaranteed. Seem to have a 50% knockdown)

Type A, VSD[2], land 5P VSD, land 5P>c.S>5H[2]>VSD[2], land 2P>VHSD (tricky, j.H sometimes launches too high)

vs. Chipp

Type B, land c.S[2]>5H>VSD, land 2P>VHSD (if high enough, you can replace 2P with c.S>5H)

Type A, VSD[2], land 5P VSD, land 5P>c.S[2]>5H>VSD[2], land 2P>VHSD (difficult. Chipp techs too often)

Type A, VSD, land c.S>5H[2]>VSD, land c.S>5H>VHSD (lands more than Testament, but still butt hard)

vs. Jam and Bridget

Type B, land c.S[2]>5H>VSD[2], land 5P>VSD, land c.S[2]>5H>VSD[2], land 2P>VHSD (whole lotta dolphins!)

vs. Sol, O-Sol, Axl, and Faust

Type B, land c.S[2]>5H>VSD[2]. land 2P>VSD (Kinda weird to land on these guys. I say just stick to the old FB dolphin B&B. On Axl, possible to replace 2P with c.S>5H>VHSD if high enough)

vs. Millia and I-No

Type B, land c.S[2]>5H>VSD, land c.S[2]>5H>VHSD (difficult on I-no. 2D>VHSD chain often misses on her)

vs. Anji and Zappa

Type B, land c.S[2]>5H>VSD, land 2P>c.S[2]>5H>VHSD (difficult on Anji. 2D>VHSD often misses on him)

vs. Baiken

Type B, land c.S[2]>5H>VSD[2], land 2P>VSD[2], land 2P>VHSD.

[Kyle]

"SkyPirates Unite"

1- Ryock, Ky <3's J.RR

J.S, J.D, Delay, J.RR, FRC, 66, S, HS, SVD, FRC, S, HS, SVD, S, HS, SVD

2- Nhur, DDU Relaunch

CH-2HS, S, HS, SVD, S, JI, HS, HSVD, FRC, Air Dash, Early J.HS, Land, HSVD, S, HS, HSVD

3- Chuchulachu, Combo into S hoop-set

2S, 2D, FBHSHD, 41236S, SVD, S, JI, HS, HSVD, FRC, Air dash, J.RR, FRC, Land, S, HS, HSVD

4- Chuchulachu, Air Dash madness

HS, 2D, FBHSHD, S, JI, HS, HSVD, FRC, Airdash, J,HS, Land, HSVD, FRC, Airdash, J,HS, Land, HSVD, FRC, Airdash, J,HS, Land, J.K, J.P, J.K, J.D, J.HS, J.D, J.RR

5- Chuchulachu, Potty madness

2S, 2D, FBHSHD, 2P, 2S, FBHSVD, P, S, SVD, P, S, HS, HSVD

6- Chuchulachu, Big Damage

CH-2HS, S, HS, SVD, S, HS, SVD, S, HS, 236236S, 2D, Delay, HSVD

7- Chuchulachu, Force Break madness

K, S, FBHSHD, 2K, 2D, FBHSVD, J.RR, FRC, 66, S, HS, SVD, 2P, FBHSVD, S, HS, HSVD

8- Kyle, Dolphin Buffer Tricks-Tensionless Overhead

66S, 41236P, 63214[K+S+HS]~]K[, [P], During OHK ]S+HS[, FBHSHD, 66 underneath oppponent, S, HS, SVD, S, HS, HSVD, KD,

HSVD Whiff,K, S as wake Okizeme, TK J.RR, ]P[, 5D, J.HS, J.HS, Jump Cancel, J.HS, Land, HSVD, HSVD.

9- Kyle, Dolphin Buffer Tricks-Tensionless cross-up Overhead

66S, 41236P, 63214[K+S+HS]~]K[, [P], During OHK ]S+HS[, FBHSHD, 66 underneath opponent, S, HS, SVD, S, HS, HSVD, KD,

HSVD Whiff,K, SVD as cross-up overhead, 6HS charged, SVD...

10- Kyle, Modified GGXX:/ Combo

K, S, JI, 2HS, HSHD, FRC, AD, j.K, j.HS, HSVD (DDU), S, SVD, 2P, P, HSVD

11- Kyle, 6HS relaunch

S, 2HS, FBHSHD, S, JI, HS, HSVD, FRC, AD, Cross-over, J.HS, 6HS, SVD, P, SVD

12- Kyle, RK only

OHK, S, HS, SVD, S, HS, SVD, S, HS, HSVD, KD.

HSHD, Whiff, SVD as cross-up overhead, FRC, J.HS, Land, 6HS, HSVD, FRC, FBHSHS, IAD, J.S, J.HS, HSVD

13- Kyle, Ky <3's J.RR Tensionless

Late AD, J.K, J.P, J.D, Delay, J.RR, 66, 2P, P, S, HSVD

14- Kyle, OHK WTF Combo

Corner OHK, IAD, J.S, RC, J.HS, HSVD, FRC, AD, J.HS, J.K, J.D, J.HS, J.D

15- Kyle, cool kid combo, wish it did max DMG =(

Late AD. J.S, J.HS, S, 2HS, FBHSHD, 66, 6HS, HSVD, 214D, S, JI, HS, HSVD, FRC, SD, J.HS, Land, HSVD, FRC, AD, J.RR

16- Kyle, Massive Damage

CH-J.HS, 6HS, SVD, S, HS, SVD, S, HS, SVD, S, HS, HSVD

17- NamelessCounter, Anji Shitsu Pressure

SB, 2D, 214D, 66, S, HS, SVD, S, JI, HS, HSVD, FRC, AD, J.HS, 6HS, SVD, P, SVD

18, 19, 20- NamelessCounter, HOS Bandit Revolver Pressure

IB/Back Dash/SB, OHK, SVD (DDU), FRC, S, HS, SVD...

21- Blargster, 6P goodness

6P, S, 6P, SVD, P, S, JI, HS, HSVD, FRC, AD, J.RR, 214D, 63214S~P

22- Blargster, Tech Trap

5D, FDC, J.HS, SVD, Air Throw

23- FrankTheTank, Corner relaunches

S, 2HS, FBHSHD, 6P, HS, HSVD, FBHSHD, S, HS, HSVD, FRC, FBHSHD, S, HS, HSVD

23- FrankTheTank, Corner Potty

2S, 2HS, 2D, FBHSHD, S, HS, HSVD, FRC, AD, J.HS, Land, 6HS, HSVD, 214D, FBHSHD, 2D, HSVD

24- Ryock, Ky Rape

S, HS, RR, RC, P, S, SVD, S, HS, SVD, FRC, S, HS, SVD, 2P, P, HSVD

25- Chuchulachu, RR Rampage

2HS, RR, FRC, J.RR, Land, RR, FRC, J.RR, land, RR, FRC, J.RR, FRC, TK J.RR

26- Chuchulachu, RK Stuffz

5D, FRC, J.HS, 236236S, 5FS, HS, SVD, S, HS, HSVD

27- Kyle, Dolphin buffer tricks

TK J.RR, FRC, S, 2D, 41236P, (K+S+HS)FRC, [P]

2D, 214D, S, HS, SVD, S, SVD, S, HSVD

2D, ]P[, SVD, S, HS, SVD, P, SVD, 2P, SVD

28- Kyle, Dolphin buffer tricks

2K, 2D, 41236P, (K+S+HS)FRC, [P]

5D, IAD, J.HS, HSVD (DDU), SVD, S, HS, HSVD

IAD, J.RR, ]P[, S, HS, 2D, 41236P, (K+S+HS)FRC, [P]

29- FrankTheTank, DDU on Jam o.0

236236S, FBHSHD, IAD, J.S, J.HS, HSVD (DDU), HSVD, FRC, AD, J.HS, Land, J.HS, J.D, J.HS, J.D

[NamelessCounter]

Wow just got inspired by a video. Off ground grab, 1 step forward 66 j, deepjs, jumpcancel jhs, RR frc, 5k, 5s, 2d, BNB. If they successfully block the string and 25% more tension left then 28s ex iad jk jhs bnb after 5s, 2d. If still blocked RR after jhs and then ohk. :D

[Kyle]

Found a sweet/pointless combo. Tall characters standing only. MAX RANGE-6[HS], FBSHD, IAD, J.S, J.HS, 5P, 2D

[NamelessCounter]

Found a sweet/pointless combo. Tall characters standing only.

MAX RANGE-6[HS], FBSHD, IAD, J.S, J.HS, 5P, 2D

Can that be done from charged or non charged 6hs? Also what characters do u mean, pot and jo only?

Kyle, here is the input for tiger knee RR FRC IAD. After 321473hs FRC656. though im still experimenting.

[Kyle]

I'm gonna play around with this tonight.

I prefer input of 6321478963HS, FRC...

I presume you have to input really slow because of the "air dash clearance" will prevent May from AirDashing too low from the ground. Hence,. I assume the opponent has to be standing.

I wonder if this will force a fuzzy guard. ?!?

Nameless, honest question for you. Do you have "GG" Guilty Gear mode turned on?

[Frank The Tank]

Found a sweet/pointless combo. Tall characters standing only.

MAX RANGE-6[HS], FBSHD, IAD, J.S, J.HS, 5P, 2D

ROFLROFLROFL

It starts with an overhead but must hit a standing character. Kyle, this is truly a masterpiece.

:yaaay:

[NamelessCounter]

I'm gonna play around with this tonight.

I prefer input of 6321478963HS, FRC...

I presume you have to input really slow because of the "air dash clearance" will prevent May from AirDashing too low from the ground. Hence,. I assume the opponent has to be standing.

I wonder if this will force a fuzzy guard. ?!?

Nameless, honest question for you. Do you have "GG" Guilty Gear mode turned on?

I got no idea what u mean by GG mode turned on. I play and practice everything at the arcade in toronto.

Ive done it quite low to the ground. Dont remember if i had the enemy blocking high or just eating it. However ive noticed the higher off the ground the easier it is. But i think this is something different though im not sure how exactly the function works. From what i understand about ino's exection its 6frc56 and between the first 6 and the second 6 it cannot be more than 6 frames. It was my understanding that this is the limitation on the execution and why so few people played ino. What i mean to say is that if you need more time off the ground it might be because your doing frc656 rather than instantly (or asap) dashing after the frc. The only limitation i believe to be part of this is the Airdash Startup time. Meaning that you have to do the RR off the ground high enough to allow the airdash start up time to kick in before her Y axis velocity causes her to touch ground.

Or are u saying that All characters have a universal hieght requirement to reach off the ground before iad input is even possible?

I tried looking thru the frame chart section and the system data. All i could find to possibly elude to this is Airdash VX. However i couldnt find any notation to explain what VX means exactly. It might mean velocity on the X axis.

Checking the frame data. If there is a 6 frame lenancy on the AD input and 6 frames in order to for the ad to start up. Then the best timing (and therefore height) you can get is 7 frames after the frc and worse is 12 frames after the frc. Anything later than that is a late input for AD and unnecessary air clearance, which will make your overhead attempt less likely to attain success since its more obvious to your enemy. Though creating really unnecessary air clearance would in my mind cause a fuzzy guard (if the moves after RR comes soon enough).

That reminds me i had this idea for oki mix up. Knockdown, early and slightly higher RR frc cross up and depending on the hieght of the RR will determine the distance traveled and therefore could allow between a OHK on cross up or 2d FBSHD.

[NamelessCounter]

Now i wonder what is the VY on a RR frc... my brain is exploding

[Teyah]

Ok I was asked to chime in here, and to me it looks like the issue is hitting with the Heavy RR high enough in the air to be able to AD afterwards. As you guys mentioned, there is a minimum height requirement on starting a jump, before an IAD is accepted by the game - but this is not the issue here. The issue is that there is also a minimum height requirement for an airdash upon landing from a jump (which is much lower than the IAD requirement, of course!). These two requirements don't overlap, from my experience with other low overheads like Millia's TK Bad Moon and Anji's B.day cake; it's possible to do a very low jump into overhead into RC/FRC, and then airdash based on the landing AD height limit. So if you're on your way down from a jump, you're subject to the landing limit only, and vice versa for if you're still going upwards.

Technical stuff aside: from playing against Mays / watching May vids, it looks like the Heavy TKRR overhead hits way too deep (low) to allow for a regular airdash afterwards, so in order to AD after it, it seems like you'd have to hit the enemy high enough to not go below the landing height limit for airdash. Not sure how feasible this is, since most crouching hitboxes are pretty low to the ground already!

[NamelessCounter]

Ok I was asked to chime in here, and to me it looks like the issue is hitting with the Heavy RR high enough in the air to be able to AD afterwards. As you guys mentioned, there is a minimum height requirement on starting a jump, before an IAD is accepted by the game - but this is not the issue here. The issue is that there is also a minimum height requirement for an airdash upon landing from a jump (which is much lower than the IAD requirement, of course!). These two requirements don't overlap, from my experience with other low overheads like Millia's TK Bad Moon and Anji's B.day cake; it's possible to do a very low jump into overhead into RC/FRC, and then airdash based on the landing AD height limit. So if you're on your way down from a jump, you're subject to the landing limit only, and vice versa for if you're still going upwards.

Technical stuff aside: from playing against Mays / watching May vids, it looks like the Heavy TKRR overhead hits way too deep (low) to allow for a regular airdash afterwards, so in order to AD after it, it seems like you'd have to hit the enemy high enough to not go below the landing height limit for airdash. Not sure how feasible this is, since most crouching hitboxes are pretty low to the ground already!

Hey teyah can you include a #R may sprite and then make a horizontal line where this invisible height requirement comes in?

If there is a 6 frame lenancy on the AD input and 6 frames in order to for the ad to start up. Then the best timing you can get is 7 frames after the frc and worse is 12 frames after the frc. However Y axis must be a min limit for the air dash, this is my next question. Does the height limitation act for the begining input for AD (meaning position at frame 1 of AD) or once the input actually takes place (meaning position at frame 6/7[6 being the frame the input goes through and 7 being the first frame the AD actually comes out])?