[CT] Ragna Block Strings and Mix-Ups

[HurricaneDennis]

Can we have a thread dedicated to block strings?

I'm really looking how to end it...

Hell's Fang is -4 on block. People like Tsak and Prototype say it is bad to end with it.

Death Spike is +3, which looks good, but it's startup is longer than the blockstun on any of Ragna's moves, so you can end up eating a 2A or something before it comes out.

here is some move data:

http://s1.zetaboards.com/blazblue/pages/ragna_data/

The DC lasts 22f and the 5D gives a -26 adv. I would think that gives you a +4 when you DC, but I tried it in training mode and I don't think that's the case... (the Block first hit is so bd in BB training mode... ). How unsafe is this dc? can you run up and throw or 5A to stuff attacks? or 6A to stuff a jump?

Anyway, any other ideas? Tsak suggested jumping out form a 3C or 6A, but then what?

214A RC is probably the best, but you don't always have or want to waste the meter.

i think 6D, JD will net the most guard libra, but it is unsafe.

[Crymsonwulf]

yea this Tsak is correct cuz 3C and 6A is Jump cancellable. and u can follow up, assuming that you are close enough and they dont barrier block, with an cross-up JB. but in general you can follow up with an JC or JB or JD. Also, i was in training mode and noticed that on block Ragna's first hit of 6D i believe, u can create your own knockback that sends u flying back in the air jus far enough to still be safe and not get punished. and i did this by pressing 7 after the block stun on the first hit i believe. and if it wasnt the first hit cuz i think i might be mistaken then its the JD after the 6D. I use this as a sorta reset type of move it keeps u safe but downfall is u have to start over with pressure. IMO i dont understand why some people on these boards are thinking that Ragna will become more defensive as the games life grows. I think u have to be clever with ur mix ups and telegraph some of his moves like the 6As and 3Cs which if they think you'll jump cancel you can mixup with 214A (hopefully get a counter with the 214A or a death spike which gives the +3 frame advantage you mentioned) or frame trap other moves, and keep em pinned with the simple 6A 3C jump cancels as well as his 5D dash cancels and 6C dash cancels. Also 6B is a great mix-up from an 2B or 2A, just remember to mixup certain strings to keep safe i like to use the 6A and 3C and i throw in 6D and 5D with dash cancel into 6C dash cancel on first hit on block into 5B -> 6A jc. -> JB,C, or D. try telegraphing the jump cancel moves more to set up delays with the Hell's Fang into the 214D delay or Rapid cancel it into the desired pressure string if they still blocking. IMO, try to end the pressure sring when their Libra is almost broken with 214A or 6D, JD. that gives me a more comfortable attack position on my opponent into whatever.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

5D is a level 4 attack, which means each hit inflicts 18F of blockstun respectively. So if you dash cancel the second hit on the first active frame that it connects on, you will be at -4 frames (18F-22F = -4F). This is on normal guard, if they Instant Guard the second hit, you will be at -9 frames (13F-22F = -9F). -4 is generally safe in BB. You're at disadvantage, but you cannot be hit back. The reason ending strings with Hell's Fang is not recommended is because the move is very easy to IG and doing so renders it punishable at -9. It is also possible to IG the moves before Hell's Fang and then interrupt the move itself. However, if your opponent doesn't IG the move, yet realizes that you are at disadvantage, you can play a small mindgame by doing C Inferno Divider after it to hit them if they try to attack you. Since it's invincible for the first 21 frames, there's pretty much no chance of them interrupting you out of it, and you get a free combo if it hits (but if they block or backdash, you're screwed, so be careful). In the case of 5D dash cancel, again, if they don't IG the second hit of the move, you are at -4 and can run a similar mindgame to the one above. However, you also have the option of cancelling the 5D into one of your specials if you anticipate them trying to attack you out of a dash cancel, which may result in a counterhit and big damage for you. There is also the option of dash cancelling before the second hit of 5D connects, which usually leaves you closer and may catch your opponent off guard. However, dash cancelling before the second hit connects leaves you at a whopping -20, so this is really only if your opponent is totally frozen on defense and isn't paying attention. Jumping out from a blocked 6A or 3C isn't for continuing offense, it's for safety. Most moves in BB are negative on block and often punishable if IGed. Using moves that are JCable on block lets you protect yourself. However, you have the option of doing a TKed Gauntlet Hades off of a blocked 3C or 6A, which is fast, must be blocked high, and leads to powerful combos on hit. It's unsafe if blocked though, and you have the option of chaining into 6B from 6A for an overhead hit anyway. You can add low options to this mixup by cancelling into 3C from 6A or into 2D from 3C. 6D-j.D is advantage on guard if you delay the j.D (not sure if you cancel ASAP into it), it's one of your best options for pressure. The problems with it are speed (6D is slow to start up and can get interrupted) and range (the j.D will often whiff from further away). Your opponent can IG the 6D to interrupt between the two moves if you delay the j.D, but 6D is JCable on guard so you can protect yourself this way. You can do a high-low mixup by landing and going low or cancelling the j.D to an air Gauntlet Hades. There are a lot of options available to you, but you have to keep your opponent in mind at all times and try to predict what they will do. It's often better to play safe.

[Crymsonwulf]

yea titanium said it best bro keep mind games going as much as possible with Ragna. i find that he works best for me when imtrapping then into thinking im doing blockable moves that they can guard low all the time while being safe from mid and high while crouch block then throw in some overhead mix-ups like tiatnium suggested which if they are caught of course they start bloccking high which can set up some 2D~2B ->5C, Inferno divider combos.

[Queue III]

what in the world??? can someone explain these numbers.

[mrninjaman]

I could be wrong on this one but i'll give it a shot, when they say that 5D leaves you at -9 frames that means that you are stuck in recovery for 9 frames meaning you can't act for 9 frames while your opponent can, aka 9 frames of disadvantage. once you get that the rest of the posts make sense I think, hope that helped ^^

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

-9 means your opponent returns to neutral and is able to act 9 frames before you can. -9 is punishable in BlazBlue, though the situation is important.

[Milln]

I've been mulling over an idea in my mind while on vacation. What about Dash cancelling the first hit on 5D? What's the frame adv/disadv? If it's decent, we can use it for surprises; especially since by the time you can cancel, it looks like that second hit is on its way.

[Ragnarok]

yes, can use it for surprise. but that's all really. if your opponent is paying just a very little attention, he gonna break your teeth :/

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

Mentioned this in my post above, DCing 5D before the 2nd hit connects leaves you at -20. You WILL be punished if your opponent is paying attention, and if they anticipate you're gonna do it, you'll eat a pretty big punish.

[Yggjrasil]

I've been mulling over an idea in my mind while on vacation. What about Dash cancelling the first hit on 5D? What's the frame adv/disadv? If it's decent, we can use it for surprises; especially since by the time you can cancel, it looks like that second hit is on its way.

DOES NOT WORK! I don't know if its just natural like that or my online opponents are exceptionally talented at predicting when I'm going to Dash Cancel the 1st hit of 5D.but everytime I do, I take a beating.

[Milln]

Gross. Back to the drawing board, then.

[Yggjrasil]

good attempt though :3 I like your style of thinking.

[superclack]

What's a good string to barrier crush someone? I've been using 5axn 5b 5c 5d 214a RC 6d j.d 5b 5c 214a 214d, it does pretty good guard crush for 50%, but it takes a RC and it doesn't even break the whole way by itself. I'm not sure if it's totally safe either.

[VR-Raiden]

What's a good string to barrier crush someone? I've been using 5axn 5b 5c 5d 214a RC 6d j.d 5b 5c 214a 214d, it does pretty good guard crush for 50%, but it takes a RC and it doesn't even break the whole way by itself. I'm not sure if it's totally safe either.

I was wondering about this too so I tried some things, borrowing from the string you posted. That one is escapable at the 5D though. They can DP/backdash before the 5D, or if they IG the 2nd hit of 5D they can DP/backdash the 214A. It seems safest if you can avoid using 5D, 2B, and 6D (outside of being guaranteed block from an RC) in the strings. There's nothing completely inescapable if they instant guard but here's what I came up with;

I could only break the full guard meter without using an RC or more than one 6D on characters with 100% or less guard libra rate.

Without RC

80% (Taokaka, Carl):

2A, 5B, 6D, j.D, dash 5B, 5C, 3C, 214A > 214D

90% (Arakune):

2A, 5B, 5C, 6D, j.D, dash 5B, 5C, 3C, 214A > 214D

*both escapable before 6D. You can change when you want to use the 6D on 80% though.

100% (Ragna, Noel, Bang, v-13):

2A, 2B, 5B, 5C, 6D, j.D, dash 2A, 5B, 2B, 5C, 3C, 214A > 214D

*escapable after both 2B, before 6D, and before the dash 2A. Also they have to block 6D crouching or the j.D will whiff, for whatever reason.

Using a RC gets rid of more escape points, and allows you to break a full meter on anyone.

With RC

110% (Rachel, Litchi) or less:

2A, 5B, 5C, 3C, 214A (RC), dash 6D, j.D, dash 5B, 5C, 3C, 214A > 214D

*breaks 80% at 5C, 90% at 3C, 100% at 214A, 110% at 214D

120% (Jin):

2A, 5B, 2B, 5C, 3C, 214A (RC), dash 6D, j.D, dash 5B, 2B, 5C, 3C, 214A > 214D

*escapable after both 2B

or

140-150% (Hakumen-Tager)

2A, 5B, 5C, 6D, j.D, dash 5B, 5C, 3C, 214A (RC), 6D, j.D, dash 5B, 5C, 3C, 214A > 214D

*escapable before first 6D. Breaks at 214A on Hakumen, 214D on Tager, 5C on Jin.

Obviously the most reliable one is the 110% or less block string using the RC. The only way out of that is IG'ing. If they IG 3C they can escape the 214A. There are probably other holes made by IG but that's the main one that would be a problem I assume.

Remember you can be hit out of 6D, so any that don't use it in a guaranteed block situation from an RC are escapable that way. Using 2B (like in the first Jin block string) allows them to DP/backdash after it but it's a pretty tight window.

and these are only any good after they've bursted or used up their Barrier gauge (duh)

[Nehle]

Here is something I've been working on. In corner: 6C(2-hit) IAD j.C j.D land 5B 6D j.D 5B 5C 214A 214D Of course you'll have to figure out how to get to that 6C sine the only thing it chains from is 5C on hit, or A/2A, but almost any character can land a poke in between It gives a guaranteed guard crash on Noel, but it has an approximate 6f window between 6C and j.C (if you time it perfectly you should have 16f blocktun -4f jump startup -6f IAD startup -12f j.C startup) so anyone with decent reflexes and a good AA will get out of it, but it might surprise someone if used sparingly. You might also be able to mindgame them with an ID instead of j.C for sweet counterhit or guaranteed death if they block it Since I don't actually have my own PS3 yet, it's a tad hard to do extensive testing. But hopefully someone can build on it. Or maybe it's just total crap ;(

[Queue III]

can someone explain what these numbers are? What are the positive and negatives in comparison too. From what I'm getting, negative is bad, it seems like if a move has a negative it takes a while for it you to recover leaving you open for attack (like a blocked hell's fang or something). but can someone explain the numbers a bit more in depth please.

[KatanaDash]

read the guide, it has many important concepts in it, I'll be nice and explain this question...

Static Difference, abbreviated SD, is the number your talking about, it refers to the difference measured in frames between when you recover from your move and when they recover from block stun. So negative SD means your opponent recovers first, positive means you recover first.

SD is measured based on the first active frame of an attack landing, and they don't faultless defend or instant block which will change the numbers. The important point about this is that if you make it so your attack hits later in the active frames, you can garner more advantage in your favor, this is usually done against some one who is waking up, and is called a "meaty" attack.

but seriously go read the guide, it will give you deep magics

[Queue III]

read the guide, it has many important concepts in it, I'll be nice and explain this question...

Static Difference, abbreviated SD, is the number your talking about, it refers to the difference measured in frames between when you recover from your move and when they recover from block stun. So negative SD means your opponent recovers first, positive means you recover first.

SD is measured based on the first active frame of an attack landing, and they don't faultless defend or instant block which will change the numbers. The important point about this is that if you make it so your attack hits later in the active frames, you can garner more advantage in your favor, this is usually done against some one who is waking up, and is called a "meaty" attack.

but seriously go read the guide, it will give you deep magics

thanks

[Queue III]

I have another question, are those numbers on hit or block? Because most numbers are negative, but wouldn't that mean the opponent always wakes up first, preventing combos? Looks like I have some reading to do tonight

[KatanaDash]

lol, the numbers are on block. Also keep in mind that the fastest moves in BB are on the order of 5 frames, so an SD of -4 is still safe, because you can block before the 5 frame start up of the fastest moves in the game. However, Instant block reduces block stun by 5 frames, so SD of -4 becomes -9 if they IB, which means it is very much not safe.

And combos are also possible because you are able to cancel the active/recovery frames of one move into the start of another. If you couldn't do this canceling, many combos would not be possible. Steps in combos that don't require a cancel are called "Links" and are generally much harder to do

Example of combo without links:

5b,5c,5d,GH,followup... every move in this combo can be canceled into the next move as soon as the attack lands.

Example of combo with a Link

5b,5c,6c (2 Hits), HG, (delay) followup, 5b, 623 D, 236C, 214C... the second 5B is a link, and requires fairly good timing to hit. every thing else here cancels.

[Queue III]

lol, the numbers are on block. Also keep in mind that the fastest moves in BB are on the order of 5 frames, so an SD of -4 is still safe, because you can block before the 5 frame start up of the fastest moves in the game. However, Instant block reduces block stun by 5 frames, so SD of -4 becomes -9 if they IB, which means it is very much not safe.

And combos are also possible because you are able to cancel the active/recovery frames of one move into the start of another. If you couldn't do this canceling, many combos would not be possible. Steps in combos that don't require a cancel are called "Links" and are generally much harder to do

Example of combo without links:

5b,5c,5d,GH,followup... every move in this combo can be canceled into the next move as soon as the attack lands.

Example of combo with a Link

5b,5c,6c (2 Hits), HG, (delay) followup, 5b, 623 D, 236C, 214C... the second 5B is a link, and requires fairly good timing to hit. every thing else here cancels.

ahhhh, thanks again.

[Tetsuro]

As more people online have gravitated toward tier whoring, using mainly Jin, Rachel, and Nu, I am having a very difficult time enjoying any matches. This is primarily due to the fact that almost everyone who uses these characters simply airdashes backwards and barrier block whenever I get anywhere near them. This leads to my main question, how is ragna, who is meant to rush down, ever expected to get in on anyone when the barrier reduces guard libra damage and pushes him away after two hits. It seems that barrier block lasts forever as well, even though it is meant to be quite limited.

[excelence]

Never Finish your block string just rush them dead and mix em up, if they whore barrier too much, they'll feel pain soon and iirc Burst activation start up longer with less barrier gauge, you can practically just avoid the burst and punish them for whiffing

[Tetsuro]

The problem with just rushing them is that I find they simply jump the first chance they get and and dash away, because jumping is apparently the shit in BB.