[CT-CS1] Whoa. HUGE. (Litchi Basics Thread - New Players Start Here - UPDATED for CS)

[edizzl]

Yah you just have to learn the timing. Just do it as soon as you can. If you get the falling j.c right, you should have plenty of time to 5d -> 6c. If I hit a straight up haku in the corner, I'm going to do the new riichi combos. :D If I'm playing online and there's lag I'll probably just do the normal: haku, chun, 5b, j.b, j.c, JC, j.D (hold a little), j.c, 6c, tsubame, desired finisher

[Fafnir]

Okay, really new to Litchi, and I have no idea where to start. So many comboes and junk to learn. First, I'm mostly used to rushdown characters so Litchi's a fairly big change. How exactly should I be playing her? I mean, I think the basic idea is to poke and just chip away until you get a chance to get the enemy in the corner, and then go for a combo. That's the basic idea, right? Second, what are the basic beginner comboes to focus on? I see plenty of cool comboes in the first post, but some of them are way above me. What are some good, solid comboes to get started playing Litchi at a decent level so I can actually get used to playing as her before I utilize the really OMGWTF stuff. Right now, the ones I know for sure are: 5B->5C(2)->3C->[D]->dash->]D[->6C->623D->6C 5B->5C(2)->3C->[D]->dash->]D[->6C->2C/3C(depending on the opponent's location) 5B->5C(2)->41236D->C->j..B->j.236B->j.236C 2B->41236D->C->j.B->j.236B->j.236C (staffless)5B CH->6A->6B->236A->236B->236C They're all fairly basic, and they don't really do much damage at all, but they're easy at least. What would be some good practicing methods for getting better at Litchi's comboes? I'm used to Noel, and Litchi just seems a lot more confusing. I don't really have any concept of how to actually play her, and have even less insight on how to actually make use of the staff. Using Shishin is fairly obvious and all, but short of that, I don't really have any clue how to properly use it.

[individuals]

i think you should start working on more of her combos that involve tsubame. one i learned that helped me a lot is (near corner)5B, 5C(2) itsuuC, j.B, JC, j.B, j.C, D falling j.C, staff 2, (land)6C, tsubame, 6C, 3C. once i learned this i learned a lot of her other more difficult combos (6B/j.C CH, throw combos, and even staffless combos that end up with you and your staff on opp. in corner. this also introduced me into litchis pro corner game, i got a lot of wins with even the simpliest tech traps, and my friends were quite (GRAAAAAWRRR) until they figured it out. then i learned how to vary my traps. more (GRAAAAAAAAWRRRR.) etc. as for more ways to use the staff, Chun's thread has some neat info if you want to find more info out of this and some of the other threads.

[STenSatsu]

Learn the 5b, 5c(2hits), itsuuC, j.Chun combos. They do the best damage for her BNBs outside riichi combos. Usually you want to finish midscreen with 2c,J.BC,[D],]D[,AD.C,staff2,6c,tsubame,6c,3c. For the corner, you can do 2c,J.BC,DJ,[D],]D[,falling J.C,6c,tsubame,6c,3c. As far as gameplan, you kind of poke around until you get a hit, then you combo to the corner if you can and begin mixups there. Pretty much any hit will give you a good combo that will carry pretty far. (Most likely hits are usually AA CH 2c, 5b, or a CH tsubame so I suggest getting the basic combos for those down.) Once you have them on the ground and 3c'd in the corner, you can either use shishin or leave the staff there and just mixup without it. (Generally you leave the staff so you can riichi combo off of mixups, but just doing shishin is probably better for starting out.) Shishin will often catch people who don't know to neutral tech, so you can often just 3c,shishin and then do 5b,2c,3c,tsubame,etc. when they try to tech non-neutral and get hit. Once they start blocking, you can mixup with 6a or chun for overheads, 2b/2c/hakue for lows, or do the 6B feint and go for a throw. 5B is a good starter poke for these since you can go into all of them from it. You can use the staff to zone a bit like against Ara, but other than that you usually want it on you since her only defensive option requires it and it makes her pokes way better. If anything I said is wrong feel free to correct me, I'm certainly not the best Litchi out there lol.

[Cornix]

5B 5C(2) 3C [D] ]D[ iad JC haku staff2 dash JBC land tsubame 6C~

This is the combo that I always suggest starting with, it's easier than the ItsuuC j.Chun combo that sten was mentioning, though less damage and doesn't quite carry as far.

Litchi on a 'basic' level is her corner game. Her staff and interactions with it make her corner combos and mixups and pressure on wakeups. So as opposed to noel your major 'objective' is to get your opponent into the corner and then to keep them there and under pressure.

One of litchi's big strengths is in her ability to zone... she has excellent melee pokes (obviously she isn't a 'zoning character' like nu).

The first pieces of the puzzle to put together is to understand your pokes, get her basic midscreen combo(s) under your fingers, and to understand her basic corner game.

Practice those three apart from each other, and then all you have to do is string them together.

Practice either the combo I listed or the ItsuuC -> J.Chun combo.

Practice Litchi's corner ukemi game (LK explains it in the 4th post in this thread http://dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5791 )

Mess around with her pokes, 5B, 6B, j.B, j.C and understand how they act and when to use them.

Then link it all together, land a poke, do her combo, get her to the corner, and keep them under pressure with her corner ukemi and you'll have a solid, if basic, Litchi, and can move on to the fancy stuff after that.

[Fafnir]

Sounds cool. So I should basicly focus on getting my opponent huddled in the corner above all else then, right? One thing that's been really bothering me about Individuals' combo is the falling j.C. The training dummy always seems to tech out of it. I can get every other part of the combo down decently enough, but the falling j.C just seems to miss almost every single time. And I'm about as deep in the corner as I can possibly get too.

[individuals]

its probably the j.B, j.B, j.C, D. somewhere in there maybe you arent doing it fast enough. or, after itsuuC make sure u dash in before the j.B. i guess i should have mentioned that.

[Fafnir]

I'm getting it more often now. That combo feels really good when you pull it off. I can see why people use Litchi now :P But on a more serious note, the major difference with ItsuuC comboes that I see from Noel's... everything, is that it all comes down to just following through. With Noel, you can kind of wait forever to do your next action, since she takes forever to be all flashy(except for the obvious 6C loop). Not so much with Litchi...

[STenSatsu]

Try doing just J.BC, DJ [D],]D[,falling J.C instead of adding the extra J.B in there. If you don't want to get back the staff yet, you can do J.C,Kote,Falling J.C as well.

[Urkelbot]

I need some noob help with the BnB combos. Like, I can do the 5B 5C(2) 3C no problem... that doesn't take much skill... and after 3C I can hit them with the staff... but how are you supposed to iad after that? Is the D air cancelable? Also how long about should you delay the ]d[? I guess I just don't understand the combo at all after Staff2... can anyone give me some very noobish tips? Sorry, also what is JBC? I looked in the general info and couldn't find it... very new to this forum and to BB still...

[Cornix]

I need some noob help with the BnB combos. Like, I can do the 5B 5C(2) 3C no problem... that doesn't take much skill...

Good start.

and after 3C I can hit them with the staff... but how are you supposed to iad after that?

You IAD just like you normally do 956 (UpForward -> Neutral -> Forward)

Is the D air cancelable? Also how long about should you delay the ]d[?

Releasing the staff shouldn't even interrupt Litchi, only starting the process (when you first hit D she has an animation, but when you release she does not). Delay ]D[ until Litchi recovers.

I guess I just don't understand the combo at all after Staff2... can anyone give me some very noobish tips? Sorry, also what is JBC?

JBC is j.B -> j.C

The rest of the combo will literally just be staff2 hits, you jumpB then jumpC, then you'll land on the ground and Tsubame (623D) and then 6C to catch them on the way back down.

I looked in the general info and couldn't find it... very new to this forum and to BB still...

No problem.

[Urkelbot]

Awesome Cornix, thanks. After reading it I went back online and something just clicked with me and Litchi... I shot up from a level 1 to 13 in like 4 matches haha... My problem is still that I can't air cancel anything though. I'll do the combo and release the staff, but unless they miss the recovery roll, my combo always ends there. If they do miss it, I can usually dash forward on the ground and land a haku followed by the B and C version of that, ending with the 623D move. But I assume at higher levels nobody misses the tech roll... guess I just need to practice AC... btw, is her j.B awesome, or is that just me playing against other noobs? EDIT: haha, just read the What's a Litchi thread again... good to know this move is a staple, cause that's how I've been using it

[Cornix]

Awesome Cornix, thanks. After reading it I went back online and something just clicked with me and Litchi... I shot up from a level 1 to 13 in like 4 matches haha... My problem is still that I can't air cancel anything though. I'll do the combo and release the staff, but unless they miss the recovery roll, my combo always ends there. If they do miss it, I can usually dash forward on the ground and land a haku followed by the B and C version of that, ending with the 623D move. But I assume at higher levels nobody misses the tech roll... guess I just need to practice AC...

Don't test it out online, do it in training mode and get it down... the problem with online is frame lag which means that when you input a move, the game will wait a few frames before executing that command. So you might be releasing D at the right time sightwise, but then the game will wait a little bit longer before it actually releases it.

So it may 'not' be your execution, you just may not be familiar enough with the combo and the game to automatically start adapting to frame lag. The game is very different between playing online and regular versus. I can barely do her easier combos consistently online.. and for some reason have a lot of trouble IADing too... when I'm doing harder combos with decent consistency (not good.. like... 50-60%) in regular versus.

btw, is her j.B awesome, or is that just me playing against other noobs? EDIT: haha, just read the What's a Litchi thread again... good to know this move is a staple, cause that's how I've been using it

Her j.B is amazing absolutely positively pee-everywhere amazing. But don't get in the habit of just throwing it out everywhere, that'll get you killed against some characters when they know what they're doing (Ragna and Rachel come to mind). Sometimes it's good to jump-in and spam j.B to hope for a cross up or something, while other times it's better to sit back and poke or block and punish, that's a big thing to learn.

[individuals]

Her j.B is amazing absolutely positively pee-everywhere amazing. But don't get in the habit of just throwing it out everywhere, that'll get you killed against some characters when they know what they're doing (Ragna and Rachel come to mind). Sometimes it's good to jump-in and spam j.B to hope for a cross up or something, while other times it's better to sit back and poke or block and punish, that's a big thing to learn.

good say, and remember depending on the character j.C is also a great air option. leads to combos dontcha know!

and her airthrow has the most range. (if not matched with someone else, i forget. but i was looking at the char data the other day.)

[Urkelbot]

So, can you combo after her j.B? My understanding is that if you hit with it right before you land you can combo into it with 5B... is this true? Also is there anyway to follow up a j.B or j.C when I hit them in the air with it?

[Spud]

I don't do it, but I've seen iad (optional?) j.BC land 5B... I'm unsure on the specifics, I just know it works on Tager and Rachel. It was in a combovideo somewhere, I can't say I do it outside of backthrow combos though.

[Ryd']

CH j.B is usually a free 5B to combo unless you hit it while rising or something. I believe you can combo 5B off a low non-CH j.B.

[Urkelbot]

Sorry, here's the situation I'm talking about: We both jump forward dash, and I j.B him out of the air. I land, and he pops up a little bit. What should I follow this up with? There's time before he can recover, so there's got to be something... I've just been doing 5C, but that's just one hit.

[Nakkiel]

After CH Air-to-Air J.B: 1. Tsubame and combo. (needs staff) 2. Jump up and do j.BC dj.BC (needs staff) 3. Jump up and do j.BCD or j.B dj.CD if in the corner. Follow up approiately. (staff set) 4. 2C and air combo (staff set) Those are the best I can think of atm.

[MiraclePizza]

and her airthrow has the most range. (if not matched with someone else, i forget. but i was looking at the char data the other day.)

It's tied for longest airthrow range with Tager which certainly explains why it looks like she would airthrow people from a mile away.

[Urkelbot]

Alright cool... is there enough time to Tsubame? Sometimes I try to follow up a 236C with tsubame and it's not fast enough, though maybe I'm just inputting it too late or something... One more question... does the j.B have to be a CH? What extra properties does this give the move?

[Nakkiel]

If you're using Chun (236C) in the air you won't get a combo after it unless you RC. You need to use Chun on the ground (unless you hit them with the top of the hitbox) in order to recover fast enough and combo. Counter-hit j.B gives more hitstun. All the followups I listed were for CH hits while both players are airbourne.

[Urkelbot]

Ah alright, so if it's not a CH then the hitstun won't last long enough? I guess the chances of it being a CH are pretty good though... if they're forward dashing they're probably ready to attack mid air...

[individuals]

well if its air to air and you dont think you can land and then get a tsubame or itsuuA fast enough, u can followup up an air to air j.B like.. (air)j.B>j.C>JC>j.B>j.C pretty easy to be able to hitconfirm into this even while in the heat of an airtoair, and its quite satisfying as its like a decently damaging combo for 4 hits and randomly happening in the air :D also, maybe you can hit D afterwards? and shinshin when you land for cover. i never thought of that but i think thats a good thing to try to keep the pressure going.

[Urkelbot]

Ok... I'm not sure what my problem is, but I CANNOT air cancel, which basically prevents me from completing most of Litchi's BnB combos... So, after you 3C, you then D... at which point can you air cancel? Do you hold D until Litchi recovers and then immediately release D and air cancel at the same time? This is my first fighter with AC, so I've never done it before... and it's pretty frustrating to not be able to do something that seems so simple for everyone else...