AC: Matchup discussion

[Caer-caveral]

Okay, let's bring this discussion down a notch please. I can't speak other peoples minds, but I don't think anyone means that the matchup is/was really easy for HOS, but perhaps just not as hopeless as many people want to paint it as. I don't know much about the matchup really (which makes linking my vid a bit silly. I don't know how to play against HOS and the guy I'm playing doesn't know much about playing HOS.), but my general experience teaches me that if both players are good, you pretty much never get easy wins. And yes, warrant doesn't work against rock it. It's facts, make sure you know them. Also, I must agree that the notion of nets killing everything is something of an urban legend. Players have to work hard to get past them (along with other traps), but Testa also has to work very hard to make use of it. It's hard to see from the other persons point of view. When I meet someone whom I feel I have huge difficulties in keeping away, more often than not he finds it incredibly difficult to get in on me. Moral of the story: there are no free wins, and why the hell are we discussing Slash in this thread? It's confusing, since most of the time I don't know if we're talking Slash or AC. Please keep the games separate, there is an old thread for Slash still.

[pulsr]

I'm having problems controlling the air game against Eddie, Millia, and May. Testament's super jump is too low, so you can't really super jump and smack him with a slash, so I get confused as of how I should hit him. I've been super jumping hitting slash, and then mashing web's if it whiffed. Millia is just damn hard to stop when she is in the air, pretty sure her air dust will neutralize all of testaments air options. May seems like she can trade all day in her favor with random air dashes + hardslash. SO, i guess im just asking what freakin moves do i use against these three.

[Teyah]

Vs Millia, your j.D should work just as well. If you manage to land a CH j.D vs her j.D, you get huge damage + a setup. Whereas Millia only gets a setup, and only if she does it closer than halfscreen or so. Also, her j.D doesn't have all that great priority if approached from below - your 6K can CH her out of it at most ranges. Just watch out for the Pin... For ED vs TE, Arcadia says: "If Eddie starts using fly, try to hit with the tip of Testament's j.S, it's important to note that this should beat out every jump attack Eddie has." Sounds accurate. In match videos, I recall seeing Testament using running j.S dj.S-(H) xx Badlands (1-hit), etc etc. to punish flying Eddies.

[Hellmonkey]

For ED vs TE, Arcadia says:

"If Eddie starts using fly, try to hit with the tip of Testament's j.S, it's important to note that this should beat out every jump attack Eddie has."

Sounds accurate. In match videos, I recall seeing Testament using running j.S dj.S-(H) xx Badlands (1-hit), etc etc. to punish flying Eddies.

Does Testament's j.S even beat Eddie's j.S from below in the air? I can't test right now, but it's hard to believe that something outranges that move vertically.

since this is a matchup discussion how can I challenge shonen the great testament player I know im good enough to beat him i'm just looking for a great challenge

buy a ticket to Japan, qualify for a big tournament by yourself, get to the finals.

[Darkhonor90]

lol fourm trolls

[Zenpou Tenshin]

Okay, I have an hard time against slayer. His D step seems to counter all of my normals.

[recca4001]

@Zenpou: I have some experience at fighting a decent Slayer. There are 3 things that I've found that will keep slayer preoccupied. Net, Forward Exe, and 6k. Slayer has a really short air dash. A backdash and 6k will probably screw up his range. If you can 6k on reaction while he's in the air, thats even better. Slayer's j.hs pretty much clashes with everything Testament has in my case. Including Nightmare Circular. I find this pretty annoying. Nets will make him unable to teleport around and mappa. Whenever he gets stuck in the net, just punish accordingly. I find putting down a net and then a k curse a pretty good defensive setup. Now, back exe beast, unless you predict he's going to do a far dandy, will almost always whiff. Back exe is really unsafe so to speak. I find forward exe beast the most useful when trying to beat out someone who abuses short dandy into pilebunker. About Slayer's pokes, try not to punish anything other than a pilebunker & crosswise heel because he would immediately just dandy and pilebunker again for counterhit. Just wait his pressure string out and jump & dash away whenever he teleports. Thats all I learnt from playing a friend :x If anyone wants to add on, correct or offer a better solution. I'm all ears

[pulsr]

Any options against Jam doing an air dash mid pressure?

[fragile]

1) Block. 2) If it's possible do a preemptive 6K but be aware of her flaming kick above it. 3) 5P if it's possible.

[zand]

More on slayer, never, EVER do sweep->net/tree or whatever on block, as most of your normals canceled into tree/net are actually punishable by CH dead on time (that 632146S super of slayers) and you will take like a billion damage for it

[ansem]

Any options against Jam doing an air dash mid pressure?

Use warrant:eng101:

[McDOOMHeart]

Use warrant:eng101:

Doesn't work. A majority of her Airs are too safe including her fire kick. Best thing that Warrent can be used on is a read Puff Ball. Of course I'm only talking from personal experience. Best thing to do as far as I can tell for Air Dash attacks is 6K

[recca4001]

More on slayer, never, EVER do sweep->net/tree or whatever on block, as most of your normals canceled into tree/net are actually punishable by CH dead on time (that 632146S super of slayers) and you will take like a billion damage for it

I'd say to cancel into a net occasionally. It would really really be bad if you do it all the time. What I try and do is either cancel into HS exe and play around with the timing on that such that he is forced to block. Then once in a while to keep the pressure up more, you just throw a net out. Stops him from teleporting forward through a forward exe.

[pulsr]

found that against jams random airdash, dashing forward and pressing 2k works wonders

[ShinDVDz]

found that against jams random airdash, dashing forward and pressing 2k works wonders

What the hell? 2k? Mind elaborating?

[McDOOMHeart]

lol I do the same sometimes but instead of 2k I do 5k. Surprisingly it clanks or stuffs with her. Now I wouldnt mind some tips on beating her stupid fire kick. It seems pretty fast. Fast enough to just flip over j.S when I try going air to air with her and nail me with a counter hit. Any tips? I have baited it out before just by empty jumping and blocking it but mix ups are preferred.

[pulsr]

airthrow ;0, you can also take the opportunity to super jump out

[EasyModeNub]

Slayer is an easy fight for Testy, remember that forward barney > slayer.

[Nehle]

Slayer is an easy fight for Testy, remember that forward barney > slayer.

slayer iad > forward barney though

[EasyModeNub]

slayer iad > forward barney though

that's what nets are for, but you are right so I stand corrected.

ground slayer <<< forward barney

Air slayer <<< net and skull

[ansem]

How to fight a great eddie player what would be better to rush him or play defensive eddie is a tough character to fight I can't beat him

[pulsr]

use the exe beast whenever he summons. if he pressures you and tries to summon mid do a forward or backwafds exe beast. (if you do back you can get a CH on eddie sometimes). when he is in the air msah jumping slash and try to get a little bit above him. the match is pretty even though

[fragile]

In addition to what pulsr said- This is matchup is all about getting and keeping your momentum since when has each side gets initiative it can destroy the other. From my experience, the best way to win this is by being patient and zone Eddie , use your nets and trees to limit his movement along with wise pokes usage. Remember that your zoning is way more superior than his. Once you nailed a hit into knockdown that's the moment to rush him down, and force your mixups, just watch out from reversals and stuff like that. When Eddie is in and gets his shadow [he will eventually] you can't really do much except blocking his mixups or dead angle at the right time. In addition, you need to minimize your mistakes since one mistake = Eddie knocks you down and unblockable[x1~3 depends on his meter and setup] and that's an easy 40~70% of your life right there. So don't overuse risky moves since Eddie can punish it hard. Pretty even match imo too, each has its own bullshit to destroy the other and can do it well once it gets the momentum.

[Digital Watches]

Okay, I'm bored, and this is a matchup I have a lot of experience with in the past year, having played against probably 6 or 7 testaments, at least 3 of which were very good... and this is arguably Testament's worst matchup, so... here are some problems Testaments tend to have, and some misconceptions I see in this thread as well:

Testament v. Axl

1. While 2H is fairly safe to warrant, it's not guarunteed, and if you see a 2H coming, you should go for an IAD counterhit if possible, since that'll do more for you and is more likely to happen (The FRC and gatling into 6H both make warrant unlikely to hit if the Axl is paying attention). The real situations in which you should be warranting is when Axl tries to throw out a rensen at max or close to max range. This is a good zoning tool in most matchups for Axl, but he can't FRC it and still connect at that range, and warrant will get in very easily. Basically, you want to make Axl afraid to use that.

2. Unfortunately, TK badlands becomes less of an option for Oki against Axl, as he can reversal housoubako on reaction, or simply attempt to throw, scoring a 5H on wakeup, which also beats out badlands (For a nasty aerial counterhit) if timed properly.

3. Hitomi is still useful, but is also very much a danger to Testament in this match. In addition to the myriad of options Axl has to clear these off the screen, he can also use them to activate housoubako, which is invulnerable, unblockable on the ground, and scores Axl a combo on CH or for 25% meter with the FB followup, or just a free knockdown if neither happens. If you can set up situations where a low is hitting at the same time as the tree, Axl loses this option in this situation, but since the counter comes out on the second frame after input, doing this will usually give Axl ample time to block.

4. Backward EXE Beast blockstrings, much like Eddie's Mawaru blockstrings, have a few problems against Axl, due to his narrow hitbox. Especially if the Axl can IB well, expect to be unable to connect with certain things, and to occasionally have to abort the blockstring in order to block something. If you don't pay attention and know when your attacks will connect and when Axl is or isn't still in blockstun, you're going to be eating combos in the middle of your pressure game. Don't let this happen!

5. Obviously, against an Axl who watches where you set them and knows how and when to perform screen maintainence, Zeinests lose all purpose as hitting moves for the most part. However, they can still be useful to drain active frames from moves, giving you more time to react. Keep that in mind when using them.

6. Range is not the only thing Axl has on Testament. Up close, there are many moves Axl has that give Testament a hard time, and may come unexpectedly. I'm mostly referring to 6H, 5H, 2K, 2S, Housoubako, and 3P. Specifically keep in mind that:

-Even though it's not listed in the frame data, 5H has some upper-body invulnerability, which will net Axl counterhits against aerial attacks, including Badlands and any jump-ins. It is also level five, which, while not specific to Testament, is a nuissance when forced to block it.

-3P hits from a lot farther away than it did in Slash, and is a fast, low poke that doesn't leave Axl at much risk. It is, however, very easy to jump over.

-2K is a problem for Testament because it can go under several of his ground zoning tools while not coming into throw range.

-6H will go over a lot of Testament's lows, and I've even seen it go over S EXE Beast several times. A counterhit or meaty loses you a lot of life, and it will also often hit Testament out of badlands if spaced properly.

-Again, Housoubako only needs 1 frame of startup before it becomes active, so much like Jam's parry, Axl does not need much time to react in order to pull one out randomly, but unlike Jam's parry, Axl can cancel into it from most of his normals.

7. Forward EXE beast is your friend. Usually, Rensen won't kill it, and since it comes out on the first frame, it is extremely difficult to counter or beat, and it will net you a trade almost any time Axl is trying to attack from up close, and trades tend to work out in Testament's favor.

8. USE MARKINGS: this was the one piece of advice Mint gave Jamie when she was having a hard time beating me at Evo. Axl is very weak in the field of fast moves and defensive options, and therefore having the crows on him can shut him down almost completely. In my personal opinion, Axl's best option here is to wait out the crow patterns, and maybe try for a random poke against Testament occasionally, but this still means that Axl will be forced to be on the defensive, and that's where Axl is weakest.

[Kyle]

Sup 's,

I have written a guide to tackling your hoe and I would appreciate some of your guys input.

Did I cover what needs to be said?

Does May have any advantages I didn't point out?

Guide HERE.

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3666

Post Replies HERE.

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3120

Thanks Everyone,

Kyle

I'm expecting to hear from you Jamie, <3.

Good job beating me at NEC, next time, I win. =)