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DubiousDanzai

[CT-CS2] Carl vs. Bang

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I certainly mean whichever one makes Carl slide along the floor and go all high/med invincible. :v: If it's just 236A, wonderful. :d Is it really that bad recovery? jD's recovery with no blockstun guarding it is pretty miserable. Also, a different note but still guard points.. There's no reason at all to be afraid of bang's guard points on wakeup. 5D and 2D aren't active on the first frame, so a 'clever' bang wakeup is 6D.. well, 6D is high vulnerable and unbearably slow, so you can either meaty frame 1 overhead to force Bang to block, or, you can literally just mash through it if you're smart with Carl's normals. If you see the guard point, pretty much mash as many lows as you can and you should get a counter hit + free combo. Really, the only time you need to respect Bang's wakeup is if the Bang is quick on his toes and down-tech 5A's you or has enough meter for Ashura.

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Meaty frame 1 overhead to force Bang to block

lol how? 6c (Carl) 2d (doll)? What if bang rolls? Both moves arent fast enough to hit on reaction to a neutral tech.. so if they hit meaty your pretty psychic knowing when they neutral tech.

Meaty throw is a far better option (throw OS into a move is gone remember?), it also beats both autoguards without fail (no need for that silly high low game). Its also 7 frames.

If you ever catch bang with a mid air blockstring (j.a x n) land and 6a, you'll beat j.d mash. Otherwise, dont fuck with that move... let it whiff, crouch block (its not an ovehead), chicken block, 236b.

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Nirvana can cover the roll, can't she? Wakeup games are never flawless. :psyduck: I'm just trying to give you the most dangerous for Bang wakeup stuff. Grab on wakeup doesn't account for simply blocking, which is what most Bang's will do on wakeup. So, most often, you grab him, he techs, and he's out for free.

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Uhhh. Okay. I'll just call the Carl's in japan and send over the message, grab on wakeup is the perfect oki. They don't get it. Look, I'm trying to be patient and helpful, and I know that I'm not wrong in this situation. You want to force Bang to block. Teching a grab isn't hard when all you're doing is blocking. Perhaps a meaty overhead is not always the best scenario, but it's certainly viable, particularly in corner. If not meaty overhead, meaty something else. Just make him feel the pressure, Bang is horrid on defense. EDIT: Another reason not to grab wakeup is down-tech is perfectly grab immune, meaning if he ever down-tech 5A's you're eating 3-4k

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Once again, thanks for the tips. I don't fight people who fully take advantage the down tech. Its so good and has gotten me out of situations. I'd hate to fight a bang player who uses it properly. Its hard for me to keep him locked down anyways.

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Neutral tech can't be grabbed on reaction so people whiff throws on down teching? making me lol. Since you play the matchup im sure you know the situation you are when Carl gets his KD and how he can force a tech (2b otg into 2d or stuff + 3d which im not fond of). If they just neutral tech its okay, its positive.

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Alright. So your strategy, despite Carl's incredibly unbelievable pressure, is to grab. That's great, go ahead and do your thing. You're right about the down tech though, I just felt it was worth noting. Not everyone knows that, and it did manage to slip my mind yesterday while conceptually thinking about Carl (Even though I meaty 2A on wakeup every time to option select punish rolls/dtechs or recover for the neutral. Just not thinking well)

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If you instant block bang's sweep, you can vivace his next move usually (namely his firepunch special move). If he does the fire punch special after a sweep, you can IB the sweep and gear super him (saw it in a vid).

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I certainly mean whichever one makes Carl slide along the floor and go all high/med invincible. :v:

If it's just 236A, wonderful. :d

Just to clarify, vivace A is 100% high/med/low invincible.

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I'm not sure about that. "/

But anyway, don't rely too much on it.

Frames 1-8 are invul.. but there are something like 23f total before you recover.

Also, vs. Bang - FCH j.B is one of your best friends.

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Also, vs. Bang - FCH j.B is one of your best friends.

Is it really fast enough to do off of reaction ?.? iv noticed Bang players tend to spam J.a before actually doing an actual attack like J.C or J.4B

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Is it really fast enough to do off of reaction ?.? iv noticed Bang players tend to spam J.a before actually doing an actual attack like J.C or J.4B

Just get it out first. Meet them air to air with it.

If they block it, it reverse beats to j.A so you'll be safe.

Also, stuff like j.B > j.A > j.A > j.B gives you air blockstrings, and high low mix up on landing.

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Carl vs Bang:

Standing: 5B, 5C, 6]D[, J.2C, J.B, J.C...

Crouching: 5B, 6B, J.2C, Alle~can...

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If you are downfalling, is there any air normal that can beat 5a?....

Jesus crist im sure that J.C, or J.B dosnt beat 5a...

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You can j.2C it for style points if you want.

Basically you never want to be falling with Bang standing under you.

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So has anyone else noticed that doing the standard unblockable loop on Bang ranges from hard to impossible?

I've started ending my combos with

j.2C > j.B > j.A > j.2C > (slight delay) j.A > j.B+3D

omitting the second j.A at the end, but introducing a delay before the first one. This still beats Ashura if you're blocking, but I haven't tested to make sure it still beats everything else.

EDIT: to clarify, I can still get the normal ender to connect from a 2A 5B 623C 2C 236A ... combo. But if I start with, for example, a throw, I can't get the normal ender to connect, so I started testing this instead.

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I noticed this too and so I watched some vids to see what other carl players do and they go for the old school 2D 6B approach (ie they do a couple of bounce loops and then land and go the unblockable); Of course that is not reversal safe. :I:

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