Nerfs or Buffs each character should recieve, GGAC Edition

[shinquickman]

Cuz baiken obviously needs loads of buffs.......

Honestly, I think with a Bacon lady with a worse ouren and more opportunities to do damage is much easier to handle than the one we have now.

johnny:

- make jackhound do bbu damage

- give ensenga a really late frc (not for one hits, but for use as an overhead)

More damage on JH wouldn't be bad, but BBU damage is too much. And I think an Ensenga FRC would be kinda hard to place that doesn't benefit a 1 hit, but benefits an overhead version. Completely agree with the other changes.

Here's some more changes for Johnny:

-Return Jack doesn't increase Mist Finer level. +Return Jack replenishes 2 coins after hit. Johnny cannot gain coins over his normal stock of 8. I always find myself short on coins with Johnny, and I would gladly give away 50% tension for some more coins in some matches.

+After Johnny loses all his coins, he he gets some sort of boost. Something like slow tension regen, Jackhound becomes a normal move, whatever. Something that would still keep him dangerous, but still less dangerous than Johnny with coins. As it stands, coinless Johnny is far too handicapped. IMO slow tension regen sounds fair enough.

-CH 6K no longer wallsticks. CH merely adds a little more untech time. Of course, all you Johnny players should know that 6K is better on normal hit than on counter hit most of the time, so why not just keep it somewhat the same on CH?

Here's one I came up for Anji:

+2nd and 3rd hit of butterflies have more untech time, allowing Anji to followup a grab with a combo when the butterfly's over the opponent. I think it's kinda annoying how when Anji goes for butterfly pressure, most people would just sit down and eat the grabs all day knowing that they'll be taking crappy damage. If Anji is able to at least do 15% damage off a grab that leads to knockdown and mixup, that won't be so bad.

Oh, and a look back at one of Chipp's changes:

+Grab leaves opponent on the ground longer. No proration on followup. This change is exclusively for the Potemkin matchup, since you can only followup on him after a grab. Longer time is to make the follow up easier (but only a little, by a frame or 2).

I think he should have 80% proration. It would be scrubby and random for Chipp to deal 30-50% damage off a NORMAL GRAB.

[qwerty]

More damage on JH wouldn't be bad, but BBU damage is too much.

how? jackhound is arguably the worst forcebreak in the entire game.

johnny is (from what i can gather) supposed to be a high risk high reward character. right now the reward on most of his moves is moderate at best, and considering how risky it is to do a psychic jackhound (considering how easy it is to get hit out of it + the fact that it's 25% meter) i certainly wouldn't mind if there was more of an incentive for me to use it. return jack is only nice if you've ran out of coins and desperately need to land a match ending combo on a pixie character, otherwise it's basically poop.

And I think an Ensenga FRC would be kinda hard to place that doesn't benefit a 1 hit, but benefits an overhead version.

considering most johnny players end up rc'ing as soon as their tk ensenga gets blocked (assuming of course they have the meter), i think it's downright essential. most characters in this game get very good/their best options for 25% meter, whereas johnny has to spend 50% just to make one of his only mixup tools (albeit a shitty one) safe. if they just placed a testament 6H type FRC on it (one that changes timing when hitstop comes into play) towards the end of the move i would be happy.

Here's some more changes for Johnny:

-Return Jack doesn't increase Mist Finer level. +Return Jack replenishes 2 coins after hit. Johnny cannot gain coins over his normal stock of 8. I always find myself short on coins with Johnny, and I would gladly give away 50% tension for some more coins in some matches.

honestly, if you're running out of coins, you're doing it wrong. if you're using more than two or three coins for pressure it means you're not really attempting to mix up (be it with a throw or a hella gimmicky tk ensenga) and you're getting what you deserve. all you need to do to gain a somewhat decent pressure game is land one coin, though of course ideally if it's pressure you're after, you'll want to land two (again, which is why i think level 3 mist finers need to be hella buffed).

+After Johnny loses all his coins, he he gets some sort of boost. Something like slow tension regen, Jackhound becomes a normal move, whatever. Something that would still keep him dangerous, but still less dangerous than Johnny with coins. As it stands, coinless Johnny is far too handicapped. IMO slow tension regen sounds fair enough.

believe it or not, johnny already has the fastest tension pulse in the game. it's just a shame that he has to spend meter for just about everything he does.

again, i don't think anything about the core of his character design (his coins) needs to be changed. i would just like to see more options that rely on either tension or coins, not both (again, why i would like auto jump install on kj so it's easier to score corner knockdown off of random hitconfirms).

-CH 6K no longer wallsticks. CH merely adds a little more untech time. Of course, all you Johnny players should know that 6K is better on normal hit than on counter hit most of the time, so why not just keep it somewhat the same on CH?

this i can get behind. also, more upper body invul so it's actually useful.

[shinquickman]

how? jackhound is arguably the worst forcebreak in the entire game.

Actually, that title goes to Pot's FB.

I don't have too much of a problem with JH as it stands. What bugs me more is that you can't deal damage after a JH on most characters, and this is more because of KJ's faults and not the force break.

johnny is (from what i can gather) supposed to be a high risk high reward character. right now the reward on most of his moves is moderate at best, and considering how risky it is to do a psychic jackhound (considering how easy it is to get hit out of it + the fact that it's 25% meter) i certainly wouldn't mind if there was more of an incentive for me to use it. return jack is only nice if you've ran out of coins and desperately need to land a match ending combo on a pixie character, otherwise it's basically poop.

BBU damage JH would help for psychic JH, but would be scrubby for other situations. 5K>5H JH, 5K>5H JH, 5K>2D would deal 55 to 60% damage, keep knockdown, and doesn't cost a coin. Add in lv 2 MF combos, and the damage can go pretty high from there. Granted, Johnny's spending 50% tension, but I don't think making Johnny a Slayer with coins is the way to go. I think the damage cap for Johnny should be 40% w/ lvl 2 no tension, 50% w/ 50% tension no coins, 60%w/ lv 2 25% tension.

considering most johnny players end up rc'ing as soon as their tk ensenga gets blocked (assuming of course they have the meter), i think it's downright essential. most characters in this game get very good/their best options for 25% meter, whereas johnny has to spend 50% just to make one of his only mixup tools (albeit a shitty one) safe. if they just placed a testament 6H type FRC on it (one that changes timing when hitstop comes into play) towards the end of the move i would be happy.

Johnny should stay the way he is in terms of mixup; he should have little mixup tools. What he really needs is more opportunities to mix up. Read my first post about the change to 3H.

honestly, if you're running out of coins, you're doing it wrong. if you're using more than two or three coins for pressure it means you're not really attempting to mix up (be it with a throw or a hella gimmicky tk ensenga) and you're getting what you deserve. all you need to do to gain a somewhat decent pressure game is land one coin, though of course ideally if it's pressure you're after, you'll want to land two (again, which is why i think level 3 mist finers need to be hella buffed).

I added that change mainly cause Return Jack sucks ass as it stands. I just want to give it some bang for its buck is all. And actually, there are certain matchups where you can be conservative with coins and still be short. Any zoning characters come to mind.

believe it or not, johnny already has the fastest tension pulse in the game. it's just a shame that he has to spend meter for just about everything he does.

again, i don't think anything about the core of his character design (his coins) needs to be changed. i would just like to see more options that rely on either tension or coins, not both (again, why i would like auto jump install on kj so it's easier to score corner knockdown off of random hitconfirms).

Yup, Johnny does have the fastest pulse in the game. Tension regen would make his tension gain that much faster

And again to repeat what I said above, there are certain matches that you will run out of coins earlier even if you're playing smart. Even with changes that give him more options with coins or tension, there's still the problem that Johnny blows against zoning characters. He can only compete when he has them locked down with coins, but once it's out that's it. Increasing his damage output will help against his weaker matches, but now he's too strong in matches he already does even.

With the tension regen, Johnny can JH spam almost as much as he did in XX/, wake up super more frequently, and DAA out of more crap. This is all stuff that would help him significantly vs zoners, and still keep him in check with characters he didn't do too bad .

this i can get behind. also, more upper body invul so it's actually useful.

I was thinking also that you could control the distance it travelled a little by holding > or <.

[4r5]

lol at tension regen on zero coins. Doesn't 2009 reward bad play enough as it is? Nah, Dizzy has THE worst Force Break. A bubble that does what all her other bubbles do, but at 25% meter. At least Potemkin got a new move. What Dizzy's force break should of been, was a bubble that could also detonate from your opponent's attacks. Or maybe only from your opponent's attacks? EZ-mode burst bait? Lol, a FB like that would almost be like a free Fish summon for Dizzy. Which I guess would be inline, with alot of the other good FB's in the game.

[rtl42]

should've gotten Michael Sword as an FB.

[shinquickman]

lol at tension regen on zero coins. Doesn't 2009 reward bad play enough as it is?

Eh I was just throwing some ideas out there. Seems like an unpopular one so I'll drop it. I don't get what that last last sentence is about though.

Nah, Dizzy has THE worst Force Break. A bubble that does what all her other bubbles do, but at 25% meter. At least Potemkin got a new move.

What Dizzy's force break should of been, was a bubble that could also detonate from your opponent's attacks. Or maybe only from your opponent's attacks? EZ-mode burst bait? Lol, a FB like that would almost be like a free Fish summon for Dizzy. Which I guess would be inline, with alot of the other good FB's in the game.

Well, Potemkin has an FB that was no tension and bad, yet now costs 25%.

And you know, I was about to make the same suggestion for Dizzy's FB. Though I think it's a little cheesy that it completely prevents someone from attacking for like 3 whole seconds and it homes on enemies like crazy, so I'd say that the bubble should travel slower.

[4r5]

if you really wanna give johnny something wacky, then have his normals do chip damage when the opponents guard meter is flashing. And I guess have specials do x2 chip.

[rtl42]

maybe FB bubble should've had properties like Millia's bubble, including directional input rather than homing?

[4r5]

unless they do to dizzy what they did to slayer in ac, completely change her, I can't really see Dizzy ever needing a bubble that can go multiple directions (or homes). yeah, I always thought that Michael Sword should of been her FB. Or a Sogetsu shield-bubble. But now we're talking about new moves.

[shinquickman]

One for Johnny: +CH Divine Blade Slides opponent. One for Faust: +41236K force prorate 90%. ~41236K>236P force prorates as much as the pull-in does now. This gives the FRC and the FB on the pull a little more merit. One for Robo: +When going overclock, the heat gauge goes down slowly at a fixed interval. During the duration, no moves can make the heat gauge go higher or lower. The heat gauge resets to 0 when overclock ends as normal. So if your heat gauge is near max and you go overclock, you can take advantage of the heat while in overclock for a little while and not worry about overheating. If this proves to be too ridiculous, overclock timer goes by faster.

[faultydefense]

- Slayer's 6P doesn't hit below his waist, so he won't be beating out moves like anji's 2D + Sol's 6H does not extend his hitbox past his arm and is overhead, don't care if it has to be slower

[Senkei]

Faust don't need that shit. He is perfect the way he is. He would only need changes if some other cast members have things he can't get around, besides that he can beat anyone in the cast, He doesn't really have very bad match-ups at all.

[TGS]

Give I-no a real useful FB outside of combos like FB Puffball or something, kthanks.

[excelence]

Here's some more changes for Johnny:

-Return Jack doesn't increase Mist Finer level. +Return Jack replenishes 2 coins after hit. Johnny cannot gain coins over his normal stock of 8. I always find myself short on coins with Johnny, and I would gladly give away 50% tension for some more coins in some matches.

+After Johnny loses all his coins, he he gets some sort of boost. Something like slow tension regen, Jackhound becomes a normal move, whatever. Something that would still keep him dangerous, but still less dangerous than Johnny with coins. As it stands, coinless Johnny is far too handicapped. IMO slow tension regen sounds fair enough.

NO ... i zone the shit out of him to make him waste coin, since 3coin combos = death to Dizzy, and slow tension Regen, with tension rate he has? that's like 2x worse than when he has coin, free jack hound is Ok thought, he runs out 1 option but given another option afterward >_>

lol at tension regen on zero coins. Doesn't 2009 reward bad play enough as it is?

Nah, Dizzy has THE worst Force Break. A bubble that does what all her other bubbles do, but at 25% meter. At least Potemkin got a new move.

What Dizzy's force break should of been, was a bubble that could also detonate from your opponent's attacks. Or maybe only from your opponent's attacks? EZ-mode burst bait? Lol, a FB like that would almost be like a free Fish summon for Dizzy. Which I guess would be inline, with alot of the other good FB's in the game.

That'll make her straight up A+ tier lol

[shinquickman]

Faust don't need that shit. He is perfect the way he is.

He would only need changes if some other cast members have things he can't get around, besides that he can beat anyone in the cast, He doesn't really have very bad match-ups at all.

Exactly. The change is not that big a deal. It just makes 2 meh options he has now slightly better is all.

More changes later.

[Kyle]

May J.HS NOT launch on CH. Jackhound active a hair sooner. Testy & I-no usually miss. put a huge scaling on 5HS so her most damaging stuff isn't S, HS, SVD. zzzzzZZZZzz

[4r5]

I'm all for less Z's.

[shinquickman]

May

J.HS NOT launch on CH.

Jackhound active a hair sooner. Testy & I-no usually miss.

put a huge scaling on 5HS so her most damaging stuff isn't S, HS, SVD. zzzzzZZZZzz

Well that would make May more balanced against chars she does too good against but now she's gonna suck vs zoners. The only reason she even comes close to a 5-5 vs Ky, Venom, Faust and has a 4-6 vs Testament is because she does high, spontaneous damage. Now she has less combo opportunities, less damage and gets nothing in return.

[WUT]

He didn't say what it would do. Could revert to pre-^c and still be huge hit stun allowing for a followup. You'd just have to spend tension for the damage rather than get a free loop. It would definitely make fighting may much more interesting. If you were going to buff may, I'd say jackhound is the way to go. Let it deal more damage. Either speed up her 5s(f) or raise the attack level. If she can pick up a decent combo with tension from it that's fine. Mostly just want it to be less h spam and more damage options.

[ilikeusingdizzy]

Well, Potemkin has an FB that was no tension and bad, yet now costs 25%.

And you know, I was about to make the same suggestion for Dizzy's FB. Though I think it's a little cheesy that it completely prevents someone from attacking for like 3 whole seconds and it homes on enemies like crazy, so I'd say that the bubble should travel slower.

that fb buble would turn dizzy into onslaught!

[Zerite]

Make zappa start the match with a summon. Give FB invuln against projectiles. Make summon randomly be safe.

[whytesakura]

make vcl-lvl 5 6hs not a part of I-No's hit box & less start up. unthrowable Longing desperation

[Effenhoog]

I just want a good ground overhead for Dizzy. It just seems like, as a character who specializes in pressure/mixup, she should be able to do the same thing that other characters like Millia/Testament can do simply by hitting forward and a button, instead of being forced into the more awkward IAD 2S mixups. They could even make it prorate like Testament's 6P if they wanted to, that way IAD 2S mixups would still have a purpose. And while they're at it I suppose they could buff her supers and give back her old 2D range. And maybe even bring back the 2H>2D gatling.

[Digital Watches]

Make summon randomly be safe.

Gross. Safe DP = Broek. Spend some meter if you want that shit safe, guy.

I just want a good ground overhead for Dizzy. It just seems like, as a character who specializes in pressure/mixup, she should be able to do the same thing that other characters like Millia/Testament can do simply by hitting forward and a button, instead of being forced into the more awkward IAD 2S mixups. They could even make it prorate like Testament's 6P if they wanted to, that way IAD 2S mixups would still have a purpose.

Also gross. I agree dizzy needs some buffs, but if you're going to give her a ground overhead, at least take away that absurd throw range.

[DoomieJ]

Also gross. I agree dizzy needs some buffs, but if you're going to give her a ground overhead, at least take away that absurd throw range.

Please, this. No reason she should be out throwing most of the cast with that insanely dumb hitbox of hers.

Testament : switch BL to the FB and GD to the special. #Reload has me wanting more GDloopz.