trippies Report post Posted October 20, 2007 Ok, I seem to have trouble with my friend's HOS. I rarely get to play him so I don't have a chance to adapt to his style but that shouldn't be necessary anyway. Opening round I'm usually pretty good, i'll either go for a 2s, cr/sa if i think he's going to backstep i'll do a S-DHM, if i think he's going to dash back i'll do a H-dhm. I can't seem to have the advantage in any situation. Anyway, this is a rundown of what happens. We distance up, i start throwing balls, he slowly closes distance with his slide and other moves, as we close in i'll get a knockdown, and as i try to do any oki setup. A couple of things happen. If i do kball, j.k dash, i get uppercut, uppercut eats my ball, and pops me in the face. if I try to do a ground ball, follow behind, and then stop, his uppercut eats the ball, and when i try to hit him, he stalls with the charge move in the air and lands as i'm recovering to smack me in the fact. If he sees i'm not attacking he FD-lands, and I can't pressure him. by now he has level 2 and he can use that fireball punch to eat my ball and slam me on the ground. now he's pressuring me. I can't poke him because all of this attacks, (the high attack, the hardslash attack and the fire punch) all have better priority and he ends up CH me, or even each other, where i'm boned and he recoveres and screws me. From here he spams fireball punch, overhead attack for distance and forces me into block where he fakes into grab and thats a 70% combo right there... PLEASE tell me you guys have experience fighting a HOS. >.< Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rift Report post Posted October 21, 2007 I have a fair bit of experience vs HOS. To avoid getting DP'd on oki, you have to make your oki meaty. Here's what can happen on oki vs HOS: -HOS wakes up in a meaty projectile, blocks it and you pressure. -HOS Storm Vipers through a projectile, you block the Storm Viper, and punish with big combo. -HOS gets hit by oki (probably attempting a wakeup storm viper), you combo Make absolutely sure that if you're going to use Dark Angel on oki vs HOS, you make it meaty, because he has absolutely no trouble Gunblazing under it. I have used it slightly early a few times on purpose though, so HOS uses gunblaze to go under DA and gets thrown. Basically just be cautious against any character with a DP, and make sure you have the option to block when they're getting up. I try to avoid K ball, j.K on oki if the enemy has a DP. AFAIK you can't do ANYTHING against Rock-it (I've tried sweep, it eats me alive). It has insane priority and is completely safe. Try to IB that shit, then dash in and get a pressure going. He can't Rock-it unless he already has an offense going, because it has kinda slow startup. If HOS starts charging, you start summoning balls, or send a projectile his way to stop him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hatred Edge Report post Posted October 21, 2007 Rock It has insane priority? Over what? Since when? 5D beats Rock It. You make it sound like Rock It is like Mach Punch or Pilebunker.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mitsurugi Report post Posted October 21, 2007 Just my 2 cents, don't know for Venom's normal, but Johnny's 5K beats Rock It very easily during its active frame and HOS users amongst friends also agree to say it has little "priority" since they say it gets stuffed by many normals. I used to be poked to death with it until I noticed this simple standard kick works like a charm. EDIT : just tried and with some timing, VE's 5P and 5K beats it, though it is harder than for JO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rift Report post Posted October 21, 2007 hmm, I seem to always get beaten by it. I'll try 5K I guess, but during the dash motion of it, it always seemed like there was nothing I could do. I know it beats 2D, 6P, 2S, 5S (maybe not if the timing is just right, though...). But 5D? Is that really a practical way to beat Rock It? It seems a bit...too slow to effectively react with. I would think that it would only happen if you were throwing a random 5D out and HOS just happened to use Rock It by chance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hatred Edge Report post Posted October 21, 2007 I was dusted out of Rock It(LEVEL 1) yesterday by Venom....during the dash-in punch. 5D may not be the best option, but then again I've been dusted out of Rock It at least 3 times.... And doesn't Double Head Morbid beat Rock it? And what about Dubious Curve(if you're fast enuff)? I don't know about lvl.2 or 3. I don't use those as stand alones. ....This is bad. A HOS player helping Venom players:gonk:. Then again, I was thinking about picking up Venom myself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rift Report post Posted October 21, 2007 Aren't dubious curve and 5D slower than rock it? I would have to be just throwing those moves out randomly to make that work, I think. Unless my enemy was really repetitive and easy to predict. S DHM might work, I'll try all of these later today. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hatred Edge Report post Posted October 21, 2007 S DHM has a startup of 9F whereas Rock It lvl.1 has a startup of 16F, HS DHM startup is 15F You guys ever tried 6P? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hatred Edge Report post Posted October 22, 2007 Okay... So I did some tests against Rock It myself. Wow. It didn't know Rock it was that good against Venom. The most I got was Venom has to hit Order-Sol at the startup of Rock It(when he pulls back). 5K,2S, and 2k is what I found to be best to deal with Rock It AT IN YOUR FACE RANGE. 6P seems to trade on both ends(or Rock It wins) for a CH during the fire punch phase. At point blank range you have to hit him before the flames come out. If it's used in a block string like 2K,c.S,5HS>Rock It, well I guess you just have to block the entire thing. Warp can work but then you have to worry about the Storm Viper problem.... Dubious Curve, I must have been some jackass to think that could work. I got CH by HOS everytime. Well I must say I got a higher respect for you Venom players. All I can say is to beat Rock It you have to hit HOS before he starts the dash.... If he doesn't do it point blank then S DHM can work or f.S or the other normals listed above. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ky0n01 Report post Posted November 4, 2007 how to beat rock it? = FD Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ky0n01 Report post Posted November 5, 2007 Counter to POTEMKIN's 6HS: 1.After guarding you can back dash for 1-4 frames with or without instant block. 2.Guard then you can do dubious curve :D and yes you dont have to IB just to escape :D waa sorry for double postin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Etirann Report post Posted November 10, 2007 Anyone have any tips on Jam? Pressure is really difficult when she can FB Puff on reaction to so many different things. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vercengetorix Report post Posted November 14, 2007 Man...Jam is tough... OK, here's what I do. First, no short-range poking...Jam's pokes are better than yours and she will FB through your pokes anyway. If you're going to poke, make sure you're at enough of a distance to recover. Second: if you must summon balls outside of okizeme, make sure you are as far away from Jam as possible. Sometimes, rarely, you can get away with summoning balls in the air, but it's not something to get predictable with. The match is similar to Baiken in that you have to abandon the usual lockdown patterns in favor of some more keep-away finesse business. The point of all this is that keeping pressure on Jam is not advisable unless it's Potemkin air-tight. NO CR pressure (unless it's off of a max-range 2s, and not in a pressure string that starts up close), and no DC pressure either. I mean, you can throw them out once in a great while (maybe once a round) but they are risky and may get you killed. Having said that, here are things you CAN do: Jam likes the air. A lot. Use this knowledge to your advantage. after her pressure strings, she may try to IAD at you--make sure you 6p or 6h that stuff if you get the chance. Even 2h can work in a bind. She'll be more cautious or she'll die. Once she gets smarter, you'll have to get smarter, too. Go for the meaty Stinger Aim wakeup (use Carcass Ride for a change in the corner)--even if she parries and burst rushes, you'll still have the advantage b/c you can rush down or throw if you see her running through your SA randomly. You NEED electric balls if you want to rush Jam down because it's harder to parry three hits than one. Make it happen. Also, like Baiken, throw her a lot. Other than that, just block a lot. I mean, this is a Slayer-esque matchup where one random mistake leads to a K.O. Come to think of it, a couple of characters do this to Venom. Maybe that's why he's not top-tier. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boss Report post Posted December 6, 2007 Counter to POTEMKIN's 6HS: 1.After guarding you can back dash for 1-4 frames with or without instant block. 2.Guard then you can do dubious curve :D and yes you dont have to IB just to escape :D waa sorry for double postin need more tips/strats for PO!!! also need strats for CH!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tigerofthewind Report post Posted December 6, 2007 Chipp is a hard matchup for Venom I find. He's just really fast and runs around like an annoying fly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boss Report post Posted December 6, 2007 STRATS PLEASE!!! yeah chipp sux, his normals come out so fast that they interrupt pretty much all of urs if not all and that freakin teleport:psyduck: :psyduck: ........ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tigerofthewind Report post Posted December 6, 2007 For teleport, I'm told the best strat against that is to jump. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boss Report post Posted December 6, 2007 it's only used when i ball summon and if i jump and summon.....air throw:gonk: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nooj Report post Posted December 6, 2007 For a teleport just at the top/back of Venom, the best thing to do is a close slash. The 3rd hit will hit chipp quickly as he's in the air. It's very effective and the chipp player will stop doing teleports every time you summon a ball. But yeah, Chipp is a hard matchup for venom. You should maximize your damages on every combo rather than trying to knockdown every times. You can also make a lot of j.D as chipp is always jumping. And don't summon too many balls, it's often useless except for a pressure in the corner. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ky0n01 Report post Posted December 9, 2007 it's only used when i ball summon and if i jump and summon.....air throw:gonk: try to air throw him or use 6p and standing close slash. i advice you to spam the following moves... 6p[duh!!] 5S[if hits do ball summon] 6HS[you can ball summon after this or teleport to your ball, but don't teleport all the time or your opponent will anticipate your teleport and air throw you] ball summon 1x and let it stay, if chipp loves to teleport ball summon 2x if chipp noticed his life is chipping away every teleport you anticipate ball summon 3x if chipp player can't guess your move anymore ball summon 4x you can surround your body with balls then 6P if chipp still wants to teleport near you T_T one more thing, don't train yourself summoning balls then hitting it in front of chipp subconciously. remember chipp can always teleport near you so i think* you should save your balls after he teleport. after a couple of games chipp won't be teleporting too often anymore. that's the time you can hit *massive ball formation you created Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hatred Edge Report post Posted December 11, 2007 Who are Venom's best 2 worst matchups? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ky0n01 Report post Posted December 12, 2007 Who are Venom's best 2 worst matchups? Slayer Millia HoS Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dark_Rage Report post Posted December 12, 2007 Who are Venom's best 2 worst matchups? i think is chipp and axl Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ky0n01 Report post Posted December 12, 2007 i think is chipp and axl Axl can't poke with Venom's balls around bouncing around ^_^ You just have to find the right timing when to summon balls ^_^ tip: Air ball summon As for chipp I think it'll be hard as well but the matchup would not be as bad with millia and hos corner raping.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Digital Watches Report post Posted December 14, 2007 i think is chipp and axl Actually, I'd call venom Axl's worst matchup. Though there's nothing I'd say here about it that I didn't already put in the Axl forum thread. But basically, you outzone Axl completely with projectiles beating out chains, and Venom's rushdown/lockout game just doesn't leave gaps big enough for a slow character like Axl to get out of reliably. It's not like, the worst matchup ever, but it's definitely 6-4 or so for Venom unless I'm horribly mistaken. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites