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Camo

[AC] Slashback to Punition

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Listing (to complete) of some usefull SlashBack during opponents pressure VS Aba -2HS(2hit)>Rekka/... SB on the 2nd hit -> CH 2P/2HS guarantee -> Combo VS Millia -S>HS(2hit) (unsafe) >2D/... SB on the 2nd hit : CH K>HS>... guarantee, (S(f) whiff a 80%) K ji >HS>KJT KJ > S jS... easy (25% for 70% of dammages) VS Sol -SB on the 2nd hit of the jHS Throw only guarantee above all VS Venom -6P>6HS>Summon SB on the 6HS : S(f)/HS, HS better punisher than S(f) in this case, S(f)'s hit box too much approximative (partial whiff) S(f) CH > KJT KJ easy, CH HS > MC Dash K>HS sweet, CH HS > MC JcK > K>HS> KJT KJ.. Great

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never, and I do repeat NEVER, slashback the second hit of ABA's 2H. she has way too many options to wreck your fucking face with. 2H(1 or 2), DANZAI; 2H(2) jc j.S fuzzy or j.H COUNTER HIT oh god my lifebar; 2H(1), rekka; etc. etc. slashbacks on normals, especially multi-hitting/jump/special/false roman cancellable normals are just not a good idea.

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never, and I do repeat NEVER, slashback the second hit of ABA's 2H. she has way too many options to wreck your fucking face with. 2H(1 or 2), DANZAI; 2H(2) jc j.S fuzzy or j.H COUNTER HIT oh god my lifebar; 2H(1), rekka; etc. etc. slashbacks on normals, especially multi-hitting/jump/special/false roman cancellable normals are just not a good idea.

Satou does it.

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it's just not reliable though because she has way too many options afterwards, though. also, what works in Japan does not work here because we always have time to adjust. best of 3/5/7 gives ample time to adjust if you slashback a certain setup, unless the player you're up against is a total scrub. slashbacking stuff like EX drills, CSEs, doobie curves, etc actually is useful, but sacrificing yourself on what you think they're going to string into is just uselessly risky.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvzkTVO2il8

7:02 Slashbacks second hit of FB Danzai (think that's what it's called)

8:02 Slashbacks second hit of 2HS.

I'm honestly not too big a fan of slashback, though. It's obviously very dependant on spacing and timing and slashbacking moves that can be JC'd or RC'd/FRC'd is really risky and not worth it unless you have really been practicing your SB and know what the fuck you're doing. That's why you don't slashback when you THINK they're going to string-- it should be reaction based, not anticipated. Anticipating with slashback is just fucking retarded. I agree.

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I love how that ABA jumps out of 2H. this move is totally awesome to slashback. I really don't think anyone should ever try it because of how good 2H is, but whatever. Johnny needs whatever he can get. Slashbacking Danzai isn't a bad idea for other characters, but Johnny has a ton of other punishes with or without it.

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slashbacks != third strike parries you have to commit to that shit and you don't get a guaranteed punish in a lot of cases instant blocking is superior, imo

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Good players can see the 2nd hit and punish. its a very good option too stop aba's infinite pressure. even you can visualy confirm if aba cane his 2hs (denzai absolutly unsafe of course) Never say never if the possiliti exist and can give you the victory. Qwerty, ib the 2hs dont give you the advantage on it SB do it.

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It's not about can or can't see the 2nd hit of 2hs, the option ABA has after 2hs is too much, if Johnny commit 2p/2h after sb'ing the 2nd hit of ABA 2h, she can score j.h(ch) or Danzie, this two wrong guess is ABA most painfull punishment u can get on any circumstances, "never to do this" is too much word on this term imo, but if u do this on regular basis, u'll get ch to death everytime If u want to sb, sb something that has a very limited option, like ABA 2nd hit of Rekka

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Seems you don't know SB's option Select. She has many option after the 1st hit ? or the 2nd ? It's not the same thing. Usually, a good ABA don't break the 2HS on the 1st hit or know how to time at oki only the 2nd hit. Apparently many of yours didn't understand the meaning of this kind of list. It's not "you have to SB each time but "it's possible to SB and to stop/punish the pressure by a lot of dammages". And of course, you make your opponent in a state of fear when he press you. It's an important psychologic point. He can make you win.

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Camo, I am completely with you on this one. People really need to look at serious SB options when fighting characters. I usually stick with SBing moves that don't have immediate followups unless RCed. Don't be scared to SB because no one is expecting almost ever, and even if you make a habit out of it. The person would usually have a hard time approaching you when they know you are efficient at it. Also I do it out of anticipation, out of pure reaction all the time is suicide, in my opinion. Here are somethings that I slashback often. -The Second hit of Rekka is probably a better option but I like to SB the third part. Even if they do the other option you can see it and get away from it. -Venom's Dubious Curve -Johnny's OD -May's Whale OD in the air and airdash in to combo her -Eddie's Mawaru 2nd hit (rarely) -Slayer's It's too late followup and Air OD -Jam's FB puffball (rarely) -Ky's Charged Stunedge last hit at point blank range, Slide Kick 2nd hit, Greed Sever, or plain stunedge -I-no's OD in the air last hit, and OD on the ground last hit only on some occasions and you can't punish her but you can punish the move she decides to follow up with. Had a lot of practice on I-no, they are really hard, don't do them unless you know. -Pot's Reflecting Projectile (rarely) -Sol's last hit of Grand Viper, 2nd hit of Tyrant Rave, and Gun Flame -Order Sol's Tyrant rave 2nd hit and/or 3rd hit -Anji's Rin followup Mynus SBs it, I never did it personally. His On (rarely) -Dizzy's j.2S-j.HS SB the J.HS but if a good dizzy player sees this they will switch to J.K as a followup. -Chipp's 236 S first hit, or 236 K followup. -Zappa's 236 P with Ghosts, 2nd hit of 236 S-S with swords, and last hit of 632146 HS OD. -Millia's 236236S OD Last hit Attempting to SB -Second hit of Axl's normals How do you SB option select? Someone told me it and lied. Then someone told me it wasn't possible, so I believed it wasn't.

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I play an ABA all the time, and I barely ever see 2H, rekka. not only that, but he's rather good at getting the 2nd hit to be meaty (seriously, it's active for 11(!?) frames man). ABA CAN MIXUP AFTER 2H LIKE CRAZY. sure, you can try and slashback it, but if she jumps, Danzais, FRCs, etc. what good did that SB do? absolutely nothing. and you probably got hurt for doing it.

A3's list is a much better and more realistic list. slashbacks are very useful against guaranteed followups. that does not include anything ABA does after 2H, venom's 6P, etc. slashbacks should never be anticipatory.

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How do you SB option select? Someone told me it and lied. Then someone told me it wasn't possible, so I believed it wasn't.

Probably holding S while blocking and tapping 4+HS when you want to SB. Though, I haven't tried it out.

Some stuff that's easy/good to SB, generally hit exactly when you think they will or are easily timeable.

Venom: normal balls (any speed)

Dizzy: dagger projectile

Millia: pin

Jam: Choujin (Jump into, SB and throw). FB puffball (watch for the flash)

Testament: 2nd hit of badlands, 2HS

Ky: Greed Sever, all stun edge attacks

Baiken: chain

Slayer: Pilebunker and BBU both have terrible recovery, but I only rarely SB his PB.

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Ky: Greed Sever, all stun edge attacks

greed sever was actually the first move i learned slashbacking on.

i could do f.S 6H jackhound/mistfiner without it since he's still in landing recovery even on normal guard. i see little reason to slashback it when it's just as easily punished on normal guard, unless there's something i'm missing here.

also, i 6P through ground stun edge. air stun edge i'll try to air throw if i'm close enough, but if it's fullscreen i'll either ib or jump.

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greed sever was actually the first move i learned slashbacking on.

i could do f.S 6H jackhound/mistfiner without it since he's still in landing recovery even on normal guard. i see little reason to slashback it when it's just as easily punished on normal guard, unless there's something i'm missing here.

I'm not sure if there's much difference between instant blocking and slash-back against greed sever, but I'll check it out. If nothing else, you have more time to decide what to do, better chance at a CH and the OH SHIT factor.

We should compile a SB checklist, feel free to add.

Is this attack:

-High or low

-a block string ender

-minus on block

-Multi hitting (How many hits are left?)

Can they:

-Cancel this attack in any way besides RC

Do they have:

-Super armor

-50% or more tension

And of course, your comfort level of knowing when the attack will hit.

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Thanks A3 to give us some other exemples.

-Venom's DC is very interesting and easy on the corner.

-But Sol's last hit of Grand Viper is totaly useless, you can punish wuth a 6HS on normal Block so.. For the GF, it's just interesting to SB if the Sol miss the FRC in the HS/S(f) range

-Axl's normal like 2HS is very important and permit a good punition

A3 you list lot of attacks already unsafe, no need SB on it (Millia's OD, etc..)

BUT if you can perform it at 100%, the opponent will be mentally destroyed. It's important in a contest for exemple.

Same things for Kadius, it's not a list to show all SB, but just some Specific SB on recurent safe pressure.

Kamui Moon

It's not he Aba's topic but I'll gonna exmplain some stuffs about his pressure

1st

2HS(1hit>cancel) : No block Stun, No Jump Cancelable, No delay

->2HS(1hit)>Denzai ? For what ? lose 50% of tension or just a free death ? Anyone will attack between the 2 hits...

->2HS(1hit)>Rekka ok but no mind game, no fear of that

2st

2HS (2hit) : Block Stun, Jump Cancelable, Delay possible with lot of mix-up (2HS Delay 2HS, 2HS Dash throw, 2HS>Rekka or Delay Rekka (horrible for the opponent because of the Speed/priority of the rekka), 2HS Delay Denzai if you fill a counter attack from the opponent, 2HS>jCjS (crazy vs big char like Pot, Joh....

Now you see why it's important to SB the 2nd hit ?:eng101:

For the SB's Option, perform your SB 1~2F after the impact,->IB if the SB miss

SBing after the impact but never before of course or --> CH :vbang:

It's not about can or can't see the 2nd hit of 2hs, the option ABA has after 2hs is too much, if Johnny commit 2p/2h after sb'ing the 2nd hit of ABA 2h, she can score j.h(ch) or Danzie

Just Bullshits

->2HS(2hit)> Denzai/jC

-SB>2P2P break the Denzai

-SB>2P avoid the jS

-SB>2P~K break the Denzai EX

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my only competition is one of the best damn ABAs in the US. so believe me, I know ABA better than the back of my hand. this is becoming one giant theory fighter battle and I can't really get anything out of your broken English, so whatever. if you want to get yourself killed against ABA, go ahead and slashback 2H. meanwhile, better players will be ib'ing and reacting instead of guessing with a highly risky slashback.

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Ah sorry, my experience in japan can't compete with your world Best US players.:kitty: As you know I'm right, just say nothing and go back in your section. Don't pollute this one please.

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I really don't agree in even the slightest with any of your choices for "good" opportunities to slashback because they all heavily rely on anticipation, but it's not like I'm telling anyone to never use it in other situations. ABA's 2H is a good example of a move that you should react to, and not just try and slashback in anticipation. like I've already said, she has too many options after it. block the 2H and wait and see what happens. if she decides to go ahead and do rekka, punish from there. slashback the 2nd hit and stuff the 3rd or whatever you want.

here's a list of what I think players should practice slashbacking against ABA

421H ABAs use it as a sort of meaty attack to frame trap with. it's +frames when spaced correctly.

2nd/3rd rekka. preferably the second since it doesn't have an FRC. not sure on the timeframe for that, but 5K/2H/2P or whatever should work.

j.H during fuzzies. throw.

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The reason why the 2nd hit of Rekkas, unlike Chip if ABA commit to do the 2nd hit, she must execute it on the same timing everytime. u can easily practice this particular SB on training mode to get your execution right like the 2nd hit of her 2h or danzai whatever.

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The big problem with the 2nd rekka, iit's delayable or Aba can choose not to do it and go on his pressing with an other attack. Rekka's 1 hit is a Frame trap.

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lol. I like you, Camo. Don't take offense to what I posted earlier in the thread-- if you can SB like a beast then by all means, take care of business. People should just get used to what they should be SBing. I know one of the early moves I learned I should SB was Baiken's S FRC thing after her chain pulls you in (I don't know the command for it, all I know is that move gives you hitstun like a bitch). Slashbacking that move would give me the opportunity for a standing far 5S > low MF2 > combo for good damage. That move is a good one to SB (to me anyway, even though it does have an FRC). Slashbacks are really fast and you recover way faster than your opponent can react (seems like it anyway). Unless your opponent has godly reaction time, I don't see them snuffing your SB counter attempts right away. Sounds pretty impossible.

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jo, you're talking about baiken's Sakura ? You can attack even if she does the FRC ? You will force her to keep his guard. Interesting, I'll gonna check.

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lol, what guard. Baiken players are notorious for their lack of defense! I used to do it when I realized BA could pressure me pretty easily if I got chained-- I'm not entirely sure if you can attack even if she FRC's. Obviously if she doesn't, you can wreck her. I need to practiiiiiice. But yeah, that move is pretty rough for Johnny to deal with. :/ So much blockstun.

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Nothing is guarentee after a Sakura FRC ->Guard > Sakura FRC~P If you SB jo's 2P trad. But at 95% after the FRC, Baiken's player prefer a dash so it's a good option for joh.

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