AC: Combo Guide

[onemic]

What are some of the essential Johhny combos and gatling combos? The OP seems to only have combos off his throw.

Also what are some good block strings for Johnny?

Lastly how do you do this combo?

5K > 8 (ji) > 5H > KJT KJ > FRC > Air Combo

How do you know if you've done the jump install properly? Im a total GG noob so I have no idea how to do jump installs.

Edited October 29, 2012 by onemic

[qwerty]

What are some of the essential Johhny combos and gatling combos? The OP seems to only have combos off his throw.

This has already been gone over before, but I guess for the sake of people who may just be browsing this forum for the first time and don't feel like going through this whole thread, why not.

So you have three ways to score damage with Johnny, those being Level 2 Mistfiner, JI Killer Joker, and Mist Stance Dash Jackhound. The idea's that you want to get in a position as early in the round as possible where you can land at least one of those (ideally, at least two).

Easy ways to build tension include:

- Walking forward, then walking backward, and then walking forward again

- Instant blocking

- Hitting the other guy

Easy ways to land coins include:

- Trading with stuff that won't get you killed early on (Pot slidehead, Ky f.S, Roboky 6P, etc.)

- Ending a gatling with 2D and canceling that into a coin (5K c.S 2D coin, 2K c.S 2D coin, etc.)

- Landing coins after a throw

So why did I mention all of this instead of just list a bunch of combos? Because it's important to know why you're doing these combos in the first place (ie: why you'd opt for knockdown/recoin over damage, or spend tension instead of coins, or viceversa), because this all affects your options once you're done with the combo and you're either on the offensive or back at neutral.

That being said, damage combos with Johnny are fairly straightforward. It's all about getting as many S and H in the combo as possible. Knockdown is where things get more complicated, since it becomes a lot more spacing, timing, and character specific. There's a lot of combos listed here and all around these forums; but really, the best advice I can give is to just sit down, keep what I said here in mind, watch some combo videos, and practice.

Also what are some good block strings for Johnny?

It all depends on distance and who you're fighting. I take it you're talking about being in the corner and the other guy being knocked down?

After a corner knockdown, it's best to meaty with either 2K or 3HS depending on the distance. From 2K you have quite a few options, actually.

- 2K c.S: This is a good way to shut down a lot of wakeup options (reversal backdash and some reversal supers; as far as I know this doesn't work against DP's, though), and if you're fighting against someone that likes mashing wakeup throw you can stay just outside of throw range and get a nice counter hit. c.S is frame advantage so you can do a few things with that.

- 2K -> tick throw: Not a bad way to land a throw in the corner, if you're looking to score another knockdown.

- 2K c.S 2D: Will condition the other guy to block low, which will help you occasionally land...

- 2K c.S TK backwards Ensenga: Who the hell expects Ensenga here?

- 2K c.S 5HS: Probably the best overall blockstring off of 2K. It'll push you back a bit, but that's not a bad thing in this case since you were pretty close to begin with.

3HS doesn't gatling in to anything, so you just have to Mist Cancel it and keep the pressure on that way.

One thing you'll learn one way or another is that Johnny isn't like other characters in this game, in that he doesn't just keep you locked down in the corner forever and kill you with mixups; he waits for you to make a mistake and be your own undoing. Likewise, I suggest you spend a lot of time learning how to judge the spacing for landing airthrows after a blocked/FD'd 5HS in the corner; and the occasional JI Killer Joker to catch people jumping isn't a bad idea, either.

Lastly how do you do this combo?

5K > 8 (ji) > 5H > KJT KJ > FRC > Air Combo

How do you know if you've done the jump install properly? Im a total GG noob so I have no idea how to do jump installs.

I just tap 8 every time I do 5K, that way I never have to worry about it. The JI itself isn't that hard really, but if you want to make sure you did it just see if you can double jump after the FRC. The harder aspects of learning JI combos are the spacing (making sure you're in range so that it'll connect after 5HS) and later on when you're doing the more advanced combos, buffering the j.HS to come out immediately after the FRC.

Edited October 30, 2012 by qwerty

[onemic]

Thanks for the info.

Regarding blockstrings, I just meant general gatling pressure strings that you would use if your opponent is blocking. like high/low mixups or something.

Also can you do a followup or is there some sort of mixup you can do after throwing a coin or mist? (ie. 5K > 2D > coin/mist) or are you just stuck at neutral after?

[qwerty]

The best you get as far as gatlings go is just canceling in to 2K/2S/2D. None of your gatling options hit overhead, so you have to go low instead. But usually, people block low against Johnny anyways, so you'll have to get good at tick throwing to get them to want to either jump or attempt a throw tech.

Again, I can't emphasize enough that this is not the character to play if you want to kill people by hitting them with mixups. Being able to do stuff like this is something you'll be able to do some of the time in specific situations, but it's not something to base your game around. Becoming a setup-dependent player is a good way to never improve.

As for the mist, it kind of sucks in AC. Without FRC'ing it, you can't use it most of the time. Even with FRC'ing it, you need a significant frame advantage knockdown like a one hit Ensenga in order to use it properly. This will change once +R hits, though.

After a 2D -> coin, I'm afraid you can't do anything unless they decide not to tech. (Well, okay, I guess that's not entirely true. You can wavedash up and throw them, or DBT/KJT which is more gimmicky. But again, not something I'd bet on being able to do often because of the gimmicky nature of such things)

Edited October 31, 2012 by qwerty

[Flubsy]

Hey guys, new Johnny player here. I'm hoping someone could give me some tips on some johnny air strings. Specifically my issue is with jKSSH Killer joker. I can consistently land jKSKS Killer joker, but post FRC they are always positioned badly, so I've been trying jKSSH killer joker, which from what I've read is a better choice most of the time anyway. The problem is that every time i do KS -> doublejump -> S it either whiffs OVER them or they tech recover too soon. Am I just not mashing out the S fast enough after the double jump? I realize this could be hard to diagnose without video. Its like i'm too much above them for the jS to hit after a jumping KS. I'm kind of expecting i just need to do it faster but I'm sort of hoping there's some brilliant tip that will explain everything for me.

[Chrome Homura]

It depends on your opponent's weight class/hitbox, as well as what launcher you're positioning them in the air with. Vs Anji for example, I believe jKSSH off a throw is impossible, and unless you're on point even just doing j.KS,KS the second slash can whiff... the same goes for the mirror I think. If you're just jump canceling a ground hit 6P, KSSH doesn't work on anyone. If you're Mist Canceling and following them up after a 6K or hitting them with high MF lvl 2, it works against just about everyone (timing dependent of course.) I'd recommend trying throw or simply jump canceling after low MF lvl 2 vs. different characters... it should be easiest to connect the j.S after the jump cancel vs. characters such as Baiken or Jam, moderate vs. Slayer or Faust, hardest vs. Axl or Sol, and it won't happen vs Venom, Testament, Anji, etc (I forget who else)

I hope this helps.

[qwerty]

It's much easier to do KSK before Killer Joker than KSKS. Try something like this instead:

KSK KJ SKSDE

Or, for the burst safe variant:

K KJ (hold 4) SKSDE

[Flubsy]

It depends on your opponent's weight class/hitbox, as well as what launcher you're positioning them in the air with. Vs Anji for example, I believe jKSSH off a throw is impossible, and unless you're on point even just doing j.KS,KS the second slash can whiff... the same goes for the mirror I think. If you're just jump canceling a ground hit 6P, KSSH doesn't work on anyone. If you're Mist Canceling and following them up after a 6K or hitting them with high MF lvl 2, it works against just about everyone (timing dependent of course.) I'd recommend trying throw or simply jump canceling after low MF lvl 2 vs. different characters... it should be easiest to connect the j.S after the jump cancel vs. characters such as Baiken or Jam, moderate vs. Slayer or Faust, hardest vs. Axl or Sol, and it won't happen vs Venom, Testament, Anji, etc (I forget who else)

I hope this helps.

Mainly I'm doing it off of a MF lvl2 low, but anti air 6P and occasionally MFlvl2(edit: MFlvl2 High) are used as well. I'm disappointing that Axl and Sol are some of the hardest, as in my local scene of 5 players, we have an Axl and a sol player. At least that means I'll need to get good at it. As far as throws, most of the time I just use them to get a coin on and follow up with pressure.

@Qwerty I'll give those other strings a try, see if they seem easier.

Thanks for the input guys.

[Chrome Homura]

I forgot to mention in my last post (kind of spaced it) but also worth considering is the option of a well-timed and well-positioned (close) 5S between low MF lvl 2 and your air string. This also makes the KSSH string possible against some of the characters that you otherwise wouldn't be able to hit it on from low MF lvl 2... however, the 5S connecting doesn't necessarily mean you can do KSSH, as the 5S can hit too late to keep the opponent high enough in the air for KSSH to work. Timing the 5S properly varies depending on the range at which you hit with the MF, so it's kind of tricky. If you're too close (point blank 5K,H,MF) it won't work period, but at least in that case you can jump forward after them and do KPSSH. the j.P cuts into your damage a bit, but for the consistency it adds to combos it's worth losing a bit of value every once in a while.

More on KPSSH: Vs. Axl in particular (or Testament, also this can be done in addition to the 5S route) you can do KPSSH regardless of the positioning/jump timing. Since low MF lvl 2 causes that weird situation where depending on the spacing at which you hit with the MF, jumping right after can put you either in front of or behind the opponent when you start your string, it's worth noting that while j.K and j.S connect on either side of JO consistently, j.P only connects behind him against certain characters. Thus, if you're fighting Sol the KPSSH string will only work if you hit with the MF close enough that you're facing Sol when you jump after him.

Or you can just go with Querty's suggestions, which work against literally every character regardless of spacing and/or timing. So unless learning tighter matchup-specific combos in order to maximize damage is on your list of goals to accomplish at this point, I suppose you'd probably be better off disregarding this post

[Donutholes]

So after figuring out how to emulate this game on my laptop so I don't have to boot up my ps2 to go into training, I'm playing this game again.

But I have a more fundamental question, you could say: what is a pressure string? is it the same as a block string? And what separates a good pressure string from a bad one?

[qwerty]

This is the combo thread, but whatever. It's not like anyone cares about this forum anymore. :P

Blockstrings are just as they sound: a string of moves used to keep your opponent in a disadvantageous position. It can be a gatling cancel like 5K 5HS, or linking moves that inflict heavy blockstun (in Johnny's case, this would be Mist Canceling S and HS normals), or whatever. Johnny has pretty decent blockstrings in AC, but things are going to get much better in +R thanks to faster MC, faster dash and upcoin.

I've said this before, but Johnny is not the character to play if you just wanna throw out mixups and win. You have to be able to think about what your opponent might do to get out of a bad situation and punish them accordingly. This requires not just a lot of knowledge of the game, but also a knack for knowing how people react to certain situations. For example, after a blocked/FD'd 5HS, many people like to jump out of the corner. As Johnny, it's your job to make sure they can't do it for free. So you have to either hit them with Upper Mistfiner, rising j.D, airthrow, or 6P if they somehow got low enough.

As you can see, this is a very complex topic, and it's one of the biggest reasons Johnny is as hard to play in AC as he is. I was thinking of making a thread on it awhile ago but with +R just around the corner, things are gonna be changing a lot, so I decided against it.

Edit: Re-read your question and realized I only answered half of it.

I like to think of blockstrings and pressure as separate, but related concepts. Obviously, any series of moves that your opponent blocks qualifies as a blockstring. Pressure, though, is something different, and I touched upon what constitutes pressure a bit already. In short, pressure is the ability to make your opponent to make a mistake. Note that I didn't say force your opponent into making a mistake, since that's more along the lines of a mixup.

Eddie knocking you down and putting you in a 50-50? Mixup. Keeping your opponent cornered and baiting normals/jumps with Mist Cancel blockstrings? Pressure.

Edited February 19, 2013 by qwerty

[N8 DMN]

This has been bugging me for awhile-It's about the training mode air recovery options. What else do I put besides back air recovery and frame1 or 0? I just need the dummy to flip. I've wasted some time learning some big juggles that look totally legit until my friend just flips out at certain points.

Edited May 6, 2013 by N8 DMN

[InWithTheAshes]

Front and back recovery is slightly quicker than neutral. Go set it to that. If that's what you've already been doing, of course, then I'm not entirely sure what the problem is.

[excelence]

Back / Front air recovery(which ever is ok as long as it isn't neutral) and frame 0. u can see your Juggle legit just by looking at the "beat" counter, as long as it didn't darken, then your combo is legit.

[N8 DMN]

Thx I thought it was like in alpha3 where the dummy would actually flip if the juggle was no good but I'll just keep an eye on the beat.

[Tsukahara]

Hi all, a few questions to enlighten the new guy.

I'm definitely a beginner when it comes to GG and Johnny, as I really only started down the path of the gentleman maybe a month or two ago, so i figured I could bounce some stuff off you more experienced Johnny players.

1st. Is there a KJT KJ (FRC) combo that works across most of the cast? Something like the fairly generic j.KSdj.KSDE off the other launchers, which covers most people. For example 5h KJT (KJ) j.S dj.SHDE ? or can you fit another KJ~blah blah after the j.H on most characters? I've kinda got down what to do for each character off of 6P,LMF(2), and throws but KJT combos seem by far the hardest for me to nail down. Maybe it's just my timing and I need to keep working at it, or maybe it's spacing but I whiff a lot of falling S' when I try to use it. Mostly practicing against Sol and Zappa as those are the main characters played locally.

10Stars, I checked out your video of KJ stuff, and I definitely want to start using this more because of it. A 200+ dmg combo off a 5k with no coins is a pretty powerful too that I really wish I had at my disposal all the time.

2. Same question as above, but situation. If you K mist finer (2) someone into the corner but are too far away for the dash followup is there a general KJT combo that you can use to pick them up off the ground? I've seen it done in some video's, but not that often.

3. How many wallbounces is too many wallbounces? Almost every time I see Satou hit a PMF(2) he always does 2 before the followup. Is that just the best proration you can get off most PMF's? I tend to follow suit and do 2, but was curious.

4. Do you guys ever use MSJH for unblockable setups? I still have a super super iffy time landing 1 hit Enkasu's on the majority of characters, so I have been wondering if I can do stuff like 2D MSJH Baccus Sigh if I need to and can't seem to get the 1 hit. I know that I really really need to learn those 1 hits to get close to Johnny's full potential, but wondering if there was a workaround till I can get them down well enough that I feel like I can pull them off in a tournament setting.

Thanks in advance guys.

[Chrome Homura]

I'll let the real smart people answer the rest of your questions, but I at least felt like nabbing this one:

3. How many wallbounces is too many wallbounces? Almost every time I see Satou hit a PMF(2) he always does 2 before the followup. Is that just the best proration you can get off most PMF's? I tend to follow suit and do 2, but was curious.

The additional coins used by pros in the combos you refer to aren't really for damage in this case. The reason you see him do it at least twice is in order to set up proper positioning for the IAD chain into enkasu, which is crucial because it's the only way to get the knockdown for the unblockable setup. It's possible to confirm a knockdown into mist without using the extra coins, or otherwise in a way that nets more damage, but I assume Satou does it the way he does because it's the most reliable confirm.

[Tsukahara]

Ah gotcha, thanks for the quick reply Chrome. I will have to double back and check video's to see what exactly he is doing to get that knockdown.

[qwerty]

Is there a KJT KJ (FRC) combo that works across most of the cast? Something like the fairly generic j.KSdj.KSDE off the other launchers, which covers most people.

Yes. 5K (8) 5HS -> KJFRC -> j.SKSDE. Or, you can learn how to buffer j.H so it comes out right after the FRC, and you can start doing stuff like j.HD -> land -> High Mist Finer.

If you K mist finer (2) someone into the corner but are too far away for the dash followup is there a general KJT combo that you can use to pick them up off the ground? I've seen it done in some video's, but not that often.

You can do a standard KJFRC from transport -> land -> c.S -> whatever. Or you can wavedash -> 5/6H (depending on distance) -> coin -> High Mist Finer.

Do you guys ever use MSJH for unblockable setups? I still have a super super iffy time landing 1 hit Enkasu's on the majority of characters, so I have been wondering if I can do stuff like 2D MSJH Baccus Sigh if I need to and can't seem to get the 1 hit. I know that I really really need to learn those 1 hits to get close to Johnny's full potential, but wondering if there was a workaround till I can get them down well enough that I feel like I can pull them off in a tournament setting.

It can be useful for midscreen unblockables, but you're gonna have to FRC Bacchus Sigh for best results. I'd only go for it if I had at least 50% tension.

[Tsukahara]

Ah ok then it is just me mucking up, I will play around with spacing tonight and see if I can nail those down.

And yeah I thought I might have to FRC the Bacchus sigh, although its not as good, I will make due with ll I nail down those 1hits.

Thanks for the info qwerty! I will practice those tonight then.

[Tsukahara]

A few more questions.

What do you guys tend to use if you want to combo and keep your Lvl 2 midscreen? I have been practicing the heck out of working on kjt ones, but they still aren't as reliable as I'd like. I can do them in practice mode fairly well, but seem to always try to FRC to fast, or whiff the falling S when im playing actual matches. So I was messing around trying to find other ways that I could do damage midscreen but still keep my lvl 2. I started trying to 5k > 2d > MSJH > 5k > 5H > highMF > coin > highMF > coin > iad ksd Enkasu. I can land it on sol fairly well, but lighter characters seem to launch too high. I tried it on jam, and just could not get the 2nd coin to hit, and if I tried to follow up the 1st coin I never managed to get the iad k to connect with her.

Any tips on keeping recoining combos with decent damaging combos/Enkasu? And any advice for doing the high mist finer loop on different character weights?

Edit: Oh and in the air, does j.s dj.s not connect after so many hits? It seems like if I try and get over 10 hits or so it seems to whiff no matter how tight I try to make it.

Edited June 28, 2013 by Tsukahara

[Tsukahara]

I guess to answer my own questions, to combo it onto lighter characters, don't lift them as high. After MSJH, only use 5k instead of 5k > 5H and then it doesn't launch as high and works. As well a nice reliable unblockable can be setup if you have another 25 tension, by MSJH after the 2nd coin hit.

Although I would still like to hear what you guys like to use midscreen.

And I re-skimmed through the thread and found confirmation about j.s dj.s link so ignore that too.

[Nattak]

Although I would still like to hear what you guys like to use midscreen.

For the mid-screen I would do combos that would give me the advantage in ALL or at least ONE of these:

*+LVL

*Knockdown

*+Tension

*Tech options (traps)

*Cornering

*Hilarious Damage

But i have got to admit i'm a sucker for recoins combos and the options that follows.

example

I have already hit Ky with a coin. Now i got level 2 mistfiner, but i don't have enough tension to get much out of it.

I'f i hit Ky with a poke, i would confirm it into:

[MFlvl2_Low(S), 5S.c, Coin]

Now i have at least gotten my coin back, some tension and the opponent can now recover in the air. Depending on which way he recovers lots of things.:

Neutral tech:

1) opponent forgets to FD right after recovery:

5p,(5S.c), MFlvl2High -> 2/3x coin loop (almost 50% meter gain) -> Coin, J.S,j.HS, KJ(frc), (AD, j.K,j.S,j.D,Ensenga (1-hit) [if far from corner] / AD, j.P, j.K,j.D, Ensenga (1-hit) [if "inside the wall" or very close]

If everything went as planned, i would now have 25% tension left (or more), and a knockdown with a nice unblockable setup. From this point on win will be yours depending on how well i can read your opponents wakeup game and my execution.

2) Now your opponent probably knows that it's best to use some tension to avoid loosing the round. If you can react to the green circle, airthrow the guy towards the corner.

Air Throw, KJT

Now you have got a knockdown closer to the corner, make the best of it .

Air throw, DBT>DB (jumpinstalled)(Frc)

*Lot's of blockstun on meaty, leads to mixup:

1. land 2k

2. j.k, land

3. AD, airstring [j.k,j.p....]

4. Block reversal

3) Burst bait.

5p, 6HS

Jo's hitbox become "flat" during the animation of 6HS. If the opponent gets a blueburst, he will eat a 6HS and from there you can do what you want.

Back tech:

1) opponent forgets to FD right after recovery:

5HS/6Hs (mix it up, opponent might not think of it as a threat if you color it with some variety), MFlvl2High -> 2/3x coin loop (almost 50% meter gain) -> Coin, J.S,j.HS, KJ(frc), (AD, j.K,j.S,j.D,Ensenga (1-hit) [if far from corner] / AD, j.P, j.K,j.D, Ensenga (1-hit) [if "inside the wall" or very close]

*If 5HS is blocked, mist cancel it into a 5S.f.At this point the opponent will be grounded. The 5S.f has a high probability of being a hit from here, so if you hit: throw or combo depending on how much tension you have got. If blocked then start some pressure.

Front tech:

1) opponent forgets to FD right after recovery:

5p / 4P (will become 6p due to the opponent changing sides)

(5S.c), MFlvl2High -> 2/3x coin loop (almost 50% meter gain) -> Coin, J.S,j.HS, KJ(frc), (AD, j.K,j.S,j.D,Ensenga (1-hit) [if far from corner] / AD, j.P, j.K,j.D, Ensenga (1-hit) [if "inside the wall" or very close]

2) jump back, air throw..

[Tsukahara]

Thanks for the detailed post Nattak. I pretty exclusively go for damage usually, but I hadn't thought of instant re-coining into an air trap for the throw. I'm going to have to mix that into my game for sure!

[LionHeartx]

How's it going people. Been playing GG for about a month now and Im reallying enjoying it. I've settled on Johnny as my main so you'll be seeing more of me here I'm finally understanding his combo paths better. I just had a question. So after the standard 5K, 5H xx KJT KJ FRC, j.H, j.D, 5H xx high mist finer starter is it possible to recoin on every character before going into j.k j.s blah blah blah? I know how important it is to recoin as often as you can so I'm curious.

I can do it on Dizzy and Sol but not on Millia. I tried walking back a little bit before the coin but even that doesn't seem to help. Maybe the timing is just really strict?

I also notice throw, coin doesn't combo normally on Millia. Again is this just a timing thing or what?

Thanks for the help.

Edited August 31, 2013 by LionHeartx