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PozerWolf

Ky Accent Core Matchup Thread

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vs. SL Mid-range: 2HS, JHS, K as mentioned above, Ky's choice can win these move are all high-risk, low return Okizeme: Ky's: Can be easily avoid by Inv.Jump + Fuzzy.G, 236D DOT both CounterHit ChargeAttack SL's: 6P, 6K, 632146P, 214P>HS, getting hit by any means 60%+ damage + down or even instant death >>TG efficiency to get back TG, it requires more VT and 214K being used in the combo but everytime Ky gets 25% back(nearly 10% back after FRC), it gives away SL 15%+ TG nothing can be more terrible than SL with 25%+ TG HSSE FRC does decent amount of damage, but SL with 25% can do much more than that >>char rank In fact, Ky is pretty bottom tier

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This forum appears to be quite dead, so to spur some discussion, I'm going to give my take on Ky's matchup chart. Although I don't think experienced Ky players will differ from my opinion by more than half a point, who knows, perhaps I can start some epic flame wars.:yaaay: I think it's also better to define the methodology (like what 4-6 etc. really means), so I'll give it a try: 5-5: Even. Both sides have equal chances, just like a mirror match. 5.5-4.5: Draw Odds/Pull. Essentially but for one or two minor details that swing the match to favor one side, it would have been even. Examples: Zangief v. Ryu in ST, White v. Black in chess, C-Chun v. C-Sagat in CvS2 6-4: Advantage. Underdog has his winning chances, but in general, the flow of the match favors one side. Examples: Ky v. Testament in GGXX, Ryu v. Sagat in SFIV, Ken v. Ryu in 3S 7-3: Severe Advantage. Underdog pretty much only gets one shot or one momentum run at winning per round, otherwise the round is lost. Examples: Guile v. Zangief in ST, Sol v. Ky in GGXX, Yun v. Q in 3S. 8-2: You can be one of the best players in the world for the underdog and do everything that could reasonably be expected of you, and still lose to merely competent opponents due to the mismatch. Examples: Ryu v. Honda in ST, Chun v. Alex in 3S, Toki v. Shin in HnK. 9-1: You block something or get knocked down and the round is over. Examples: Akuma v. everyone in ST, Toki v. Jagi in HnK. From that standpoint, this is what I think it's like (Ky v. opponent): 6-4: Bridget, Johnny 5.5-4.5: Anji, Order Sol 5-5: Dizzy, Ino, Robo-Ky, Sol, Zappa 4.5-5.5: Aba, Axl, Chipp, May, Testament 4-6: Eddie, Faust, Jam, Millia, Potemkin 3.5-6.5: Baiken, Slayer, Venom (though these are probably 4-6 in reality and just feel worse than they are) So, discuss...:psyduck:

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i disagree... i find slayer to be either even or 4-6 (disadvantage). the match to me is basically play perfect for a long time and win... mess up once and you lose.

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I will agree with stunedge and shtkn, and further add that from the inherent mechanics of the matchup, there's no way that it could be even. Granted, Ky will win the ground exchanges more often than he will lose, but one misstep and the round is essentially over. Plus, as soon as Slayer gets 25%+ tension, the whole game changes into something where Ky can't really do much except react to what Slayer does. There are just way too many ways for Ky to go wrong. If Ky did 2x more damage on average, it might be different, but as it stands Ky has to hit Slayer too many times for it to be even, and he doesn't win the ground exchanges enough to compensate for the poor damage (compared to say, the ground game vs. Jam, which I feel is a whole lot easier).

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really? HS slayer all day? how do you get away with that? and unless those 2ish hits are like... 2D > orb > combos, i don't see how you can do that much damage.

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5HS (ch) into 5HS, 2D, orb combo or 5 HS (counterhit) -> 5HS -> stun edge combo of your choice, though it's more like 3+ hits, not two. 5HS sorta works, until a good Slayer player nails you for using it with BBU, pile bunker, bluff into 2HS or super and you almost instantly die. It's too risky to throw out as an abare once Slayer gets his tension, so you are pretty much restricted to using it to punish or to react to things, and in those situations you might not get the needed counterhit. Which was my original point, you still don't win the ground exchanges often enough.

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I mean zone with 5H. It's pretty much my force field against Slayer and seems to work pretty well. Even doing the Clayton combos it will be 2ish combos. I assume you are hitting Slayer a couple times with random hits or stun edges along the way. Sweep works pretty well too.

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Hmm. Usually sweep or 5HS eventually get smacked the heck down by the aformentioned crap. I think Ky can use either poke (along with stundipper, SE and greed sever) effectively 65% of the time as a zoning tool, but the other 35% just makes him eat a retarded 80% combo. Which is why I'm not really convinced that the matchup is even or better for Ky.

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I been playing a worse reload Ky vs much better reload Slayer a bit so perhaps the matchup is slightly different but I do know that I can use the same idea as far as zoning goes. And yeah, stund edges and SD and GS are good tools in some situations. Air fireballs are great if you can shin akuma as well. Aside from the fact that you can't AA reload slayers jH with 6P and that BDC is soooooooooooo much better. I really forgot how good that shit was, always BDC mappa into all your life. And it was super invincible. In AC it was much easier to bait and had a lot less invincibility.

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I actually think that the Reload matchup is much easier to deal with. Yeah, BDC Mappa was pretty broken, but that's pretty much it. You don't have 2HS, BBU, or that stupid juggernaut headcrush like super to deal with, each of them potentially leading to 80% life. And 6P doesn't really work too well against Slayer's J.H in AC most of the time anyway.

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I was always under the impression that this match character-wise is easy for ky (zoning and such), but Slayer has so much damage output that it's more like 5.5-4.5 for Slayer. Against BBU, the best thing I could advise is create pressure where he wants to do it, and either block or do moves that stuff it when appropriate (2s works, doesn't it?)...Doing strings into s/hs stun edge when in BBU range is a bad idea. It'd be far better to end a string with 2d or a JCable move and pause for a sec with FD or back away.

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I was always under the impression that this match character-wise is easy for ky (zoning and such), but Slayer has so much damage output that it's more like 5.5-4.5 for Slayer.

Against BBU, the best thing I could advise is create pressure where he wants to do it, and either block or do moves that stuff it when appropriate (2s works, doesn't it?)...Doing strings into s/hs stun edge when in BBU range is a bad idea. It'd be far better to end a string with 2d or a JCable move and pause for a sec with FD or back away.

Zoning is easier for Ky up until Slayer gets 25%+ tension. Then the game turns retarded.

The problem is that the pokes that stuff BBU will lose outright to 2HS, and vice versa. Guessing wrong at either juncture leads to a ridciulous loss of life. Blocking BBU correctly doesn't lead to much since you get pushed just a little too far back (think of 3S of what 12 can do after blocking Chun's hoyokusen). Risk/reward is just completely unbalanced in Slayer's favor.

Basically you're forced to resort to a Mitsutoshi like Ky strategy of keeping everything tight and proclaiming THOU SHALL NOT PASS THROUGH MY CIRCLE OF DEATH once he gets tension. Unless you have the reflexes of God like Buppa and can punish BBU/2HS on reaction with the correct poke while rushing Slayer down like a maniac.

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My opinion on Ky match-ups from the little character experience I have/and match videos...

(Ky vs. opponent)

6:4 - Bridget (not really sure on this one)

5.5:4.5 - Johnny <-according to BLEED)

5:5 - Sol, I-No, Dizzy, Order-Sol, Robo-Ky, Anji, May, Chipp (not really sure if Ky doesn't have an advantage against Chipp)

4.5:5.5 - Millia, Baiken

4:6 - Testament, Eddie, A.B.A, Potemkin, Axl, Venom, Slayer <-according to a japanese player, Slayer is supposedly 6:4)

3.5:6.5 - Jam, Zappa, Faust

^_^

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Are you that Hawaiian chick with the sister that went to evo? The only two girls I saw playing GG said they were from Hawaii I think

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Are you that Hawaiian chick with the sister that went to evo? The only two girls I saw playing GG said they were from Hawaii I think

Not to derail this thread or anything, but yes, I'm from Hawaii, went to Evo, played Guilty Gear and has a twin sister (lol).

Also, despite my username, I don't main Ky :).

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Lol, we talked for a bit I think but I was super drunk and was talking to everyone during some sf4 match in the final 8. I don't know which one it was that started the convo though :p

Also, my shit toward clayton wasn't off topic! I am the drunken master! Nothing I do is wrong says I.

I once used Ky at a friends arcade and Ky said something to me. He said, "Only the drunken mater can posses the powers of the Sun of Edges and can posses the power of Edges of Stun. You are the chosen one and all you say is so. You will also be the dictator of the world." One day it will happen sir, and when that day comes I will rid the world of evil...

On a serious note.... Jam is bullshit of a matchup. They should have given Ky a move that eats puffball and farts out super charage stun edges like gold ky.

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wait what about off topic? Also someone give me programable pads so I can cheat to finish those GG Combo videos from a year ago. I havn't touched them since. I probably should try and finish them some day... shrug

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On a serious note.... Jam is bullshit of a matchup. They should have given Ky a move that eats puffball and farts out super charage stun edges like gold ky.

I kinda forgot about this thread until now.

I use to think that Jam was a horrid matchup until I saw a vid on Nico Nico douga between Machabo and some Jam player. Unfortunately, I can't seem to find that vid again for the life of me. What was interesting was not so much the match as it was the subtitled commentary that some seemingly very high level GG player appended to the match.

Basically, it boiled to Machabo creating a so-called "Machabo wall" with 2s. The subtitles (in Japanese, unfortunately) went along the lines of "Machabo will build a wall with 2s. Jam will try to come up with answers to 2s." Machabo pretty much spaced himself for the entire match so that the tip of the 2s would be just outside of Jam's hitbox, and then he would intermittently hit 2s. The Jam player tried really hard to force her way through, but kept getting counter-hit. Flying kick sails straight over Ky. Normal puffball gets counterhit. That hop over flaming kick gets TK air thrown, or chicken-blocked into combo. Forcebreak puffball can be blocked in time provided you spaced it correctly. The subtitles went into great detail as to why Jam failed, or why Ky got hit, and it was some pretty remarkable insight.

So I started to try everything the subtitles suggested, and yes, it works remarkably well. Jam doesn't really have a good answer to a well timed/spaced 2s.

BUT....at the correct spacing, you can't combo off the 2s except for maybe stun dipper off counterhit. So you are pretty much trying to kill her by hitting her to death one 2s at a time, while one mistake causes you to lose 80% of your life. So it's still a 4-6 matchup in favor of Jam, but certainly a lot more bearable than most of Ky's other bad matches.

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Any advice on how to handle the axl match-up? I just started to play gg again after a few years and I have a friend who uses axl, but I am completely unfamiliar to this match up.

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The Ky thread in the Axl matchup forum is a pretty good start. For general tips, I wouldn't really add all that much to it other than:

- Try not to jump, unless it's either an IAD to punish a whiff recovery or you're coming in at an odd angle.

- Manage your tension well so that you have 25% on you at all times if possible.

- Dash break into IB a lot.

- Your useful stuff in order: 5s, 6p, 2s, 2p, SE/Air SE, j.d, force break j.d.

- Axl matches can be broken down into three game states: the 3/4-full screen away neutral game, Ky on offense in Axl's face, Ky on defense with Axl in Ky's face. Avoid being on defense, but if you are play it safe. If you're on offense, go for an all out blitz. In the neutral game, try to make Axl get counterhit and floating in the air into knockdown by zoning out with SE, j.d and 6p to start your offense.

I'm kinda too lazy to actually do a full writeup atm, but I'll answer specific questions if you have any.

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