Reviving tournaments

[IronTager]

Well, I'm not sure if it'll be too productive to make this thread, but I'm hoping it will be. Anyhow, as we all know, Blazblue is the "spiritual successor" of Guilty Gear. I've seen that Guilty Gear tournaments have died down a bit because "Blazblue is the new Guilty Gear." Personally, I don't think this is really a true statement and that both games have small similarities, but in actuality are two complete different games. In my personal opinion, it's like comparing apples and oranges. They're both fruits, but they're two totally different fruits. I don't want this thread to have any real comparison just because that's not why this thread was made. I love both Blazblue and Guilty Gear (Guilty Gear more, I'll admit my bias now), but playing both in depth, they are two totally different games. That's one big problem in my opinion, people try to compare the two games and think "Well, Blazblue is here, you can play that instead." But Guilty Gear =/= Blazblue. Again, I think the mechanics work almost completely different.

Now then, the tournament scenes been down in Guilty Gear from what I've seen. They play them at some big tournaments at times, but it's still not as popular as it use to be. Does anyone run any tournaments around their countries? Any ideas on how to revive this wonderful series? I wanted to try to go to a tournament in Michigan and play Guilty Gear there, hopefully run it back up (I couldn't make it due to technical difficulties). Is anyone else trying to run it back up?

[Hi-C]

Unfortunately as far as I know for the EC, there are unnoticable local tournaments and conventions. Then again thats Northern VA/Maryland. T_T

[4r5]

Grassroots, yo. We've been blasted back to the stone-age. Square-one, baby. Build up your local scene.

local scene -> local tournaments -> regional tournaments -> major tournaments

But most importantly, keep playing (and make sure people know you're playing)

It'll be harder than the first time around. We're competing against online-play and Killian-powered marketing. But if you believe GGAC is a game worth playing, then just keep playing and other people will see it too. (p.s. it's going to be slow, think years. Hang in there baby!)

Alternatively, you could go top-down. Shoot a stim in the arm. Get everyone to converge in on a major and produce a big tournament and a big crowd. And maybe the hype will snowball.

Northern VA/Maryland. T_T

Since restarting these tournaments at our new, and better venue. We've had our biggest GGAC tournament yet! 13 entrants!

(shameless plug: http://www.youtube.com/user/XanaduGames#grid/user/CA48346D1E10437E)

[Narcowski]

Yeah, build up a local scene is all I can say. I've been working on getting people into the game, but there's still only a few of us up here, not that that stops me from running tournaments with appstate's gaming club

The fact that ASW has plans to produce another Guilty Gear is reassuring at least. Blazblue almost feels like it's designed as an introduction to new-school fighters to me; maybe they're just trying to build their base back up before they release another game with as much depth as GG?

[IronTager]

Yeah, that's actually the reason I think as well. Blazblue is very simplified to Guilty Gear. Anyhow, it's a bit hard to revive the scene. The thing I notice in the American scene is the less that they have to work to play for the game without it being total crap (Total crap being something that's very flimsy like SFEX), the more they play it. Not to mention that a lot seem to fall into the nostalgia factor which apparently automatically makes something good. But anyhow, it's a bit hard to get Guilty Gear up and running because of it's complexity. I think Guilty Gear is one of the most complex if not THE most complex 2D fighter I've ever played. From it's damage modifier system to it's false roman cancels and all around. People are probably too intimidated to play like that.

I'm not too good at marketing, but I know how people's minds work at times. If two good Guilty Gear players are fighting, people might be attracted to play (Especially if you go easy on the new people. People seem to be attracted more to a game if they are "good" at it. Or if they at least think they're good at it.) So anyhow, if you teach them a bit or try to play on their level and help people build up, it can get pretty big.

[Digital Watches]

Alternatively, you could go top-down. Shoot a stim in the arm. Get everyone to converge in on a major and produce a big tournament and a big crowd. And maybe the hype will snowball.

There's already some moneymatch hype at Evo this year. Better fuckin' BELIEVE there'll be a big side-tourney.

[Ronin Jinobi]

honestly this is a pretty neato thread :D

It does kinda help to build the local scene. So far I've gotten about 5-6 people in my college interested in it again...woulda been 7 but one graduated and went back to japan D:

it's tough though. especially when your town's filled with stupid people who think SFIV is the pinnacle of fighting games...pfffft >_>

[IronTager]

I see... Well, I won't get started on SF4. Personally, I think SF4 is the joke of fighting games but if I rant about that now, it'll lead elsewhere. The best way to make someone stop playing something is to play "unfair". (When I say that, I don't mean literally. Most people still have that idea where using "cheap moves" is gay.) Anyhow, some people are unwilling to get into fighting games because it doesn't have "cool 3D graphics like SF4." (Personally, I think SF4 looks like a bunch of ugly ass gorilla designs of Capcom characters) So, you lose a bit of the crowd because of that detail. I remember hearing people whine at my College while watching a 2D version of something (of a video game) about how they didn't use advent children graphics.

Anyhow, another way to kinda of draw a crowd in is to just show your enjoyment a bit. If something totally dumb happens in the game (Usually, it's somewhat rare), laugh about it. People don't usually like learning about the small details in the beginning, so don't mention too much at once. Progressively let them know stuff when they get more into the game. Usually tip off the player to using the easier characters in the game (Regular Sol or Ky Kiske), it'll get them to feel the game fast enough and normally, people who are new tend to choose the easiest character to use. (That's why a lot of people choose Ryu in SF4 "-_-) Now then, some people are a bit headstrong and don't want to get out of learning their characters. You can usually try to leave them alone for a bit and try to move around, showing how good some of the characters are or how fun it is to play with some of it. I hope this helps...

[shezmu]

As someone without a car, I'd say having people willing to give people rides helps. Free rides are great, but paid rides are better than nothing.

[Narcowski]

To be honest, the biggest problem I've had is getting people to actually pick up the game and not rage immediately. Having more than one newbie around at once isn't particularly common, and I tend to win somewhat brutally even if I'm playing a character I know little about, mostly because blocking skills carry over.

[IronTager]

@Narcowski

I see... Well, like I said earlier, go easy on them. If they win a few matches or feel they're good at the game, they'll most likely take a bigger liking to the game. I'm going to say something and it's no big secret.

The majority loves winning

If someone wins enough at something, they usually feel like they're good at it.

If they feel like they're good at it, they might pick it up more.

From there, you can teach em BnBs, bursting, and the more important features of the game. Eventually, you can get into the smaller details when you can tell they're committed to the game. Try to still hold back some punches because people tend to be sensitive when they feel like they haven't improved and are discouraged. They see a better light of the game, but see lesser of themselves and normally stride away because they feel like they haven't improved. Always encourage the person you're fighting with. Teach them (not directly) playing to win. If something works, keep doing it. I know that there's a lot to teach, but you always have to take a step at a time and try to let them learn without killing them.

Translation - Play like a newb to motivate the newbs to play. You might even learn some things from it.

Another popularish character to show is Chipp Zanuff. I don't know why, but he's actually quite popular. His stuff looks pretty cool but "typical" as my friend puts it... I don't really blame him, Chipp is kinda typical for a rushdown character, but he's pretty sweet. Anyhow, that's my advice.

[Digital Watches]

Progressively let them know stuff when they get more into the game. Usually tip off the player to using the easier characters in the game (Regular Sol or Ky Kiske), it'll get them to feel the game fast enough and normally, people who are new tend to choose the easiest character to use. (That's why a lot of people choose Ryu in SF4 "-_-) Now then, some people are a bit headstrong and don't want to get out of learning their characters.

I'mna saaaaay...

Bullshit.

1. Sol and Ky are not the easiest characters in this game. Especially Ky. A lot of beginner players have a hard time doing well with a character that has to know how to beat stuff and doesn't do a lot of damage.

2. If someone's "headstrong" and don't want to switch characters, that's a good thing. Even the easier characters in the game (Jam, Potemkin, May) have learning curves, and honestly the entire act of "suggesting" a character to play should ONLY happen if they can't choose on their own.

[IronTager]

First of all, that's a bit rude. I'm not forcing this information on you. Second, I agree, it should only be given if someone can't choose. Also, I said EASIER characters, not EASIEST. Choosing Dizzy, Jam, Zappa, Faust, A.B.A, Millia, Venom, Johnny, Robo-Ky, Bridgette, I-no, or some of those other characters doesn't sound very easy to me. Someone like Sol Badguy or Ky Kiskie or pretty easy to pick up in my honest opinion, but the roster is pretty hard to master. (Well, maybe not Eddie, but even then you STILL have to know what the Hell you're doing.)

[Digital Watches]

Er, I'm disagreeing with your information. I'm interested in building up the scene too, so I want to have an honest discussion of what you're saying rather than it just be presented in a thread undiscussed. That's why this is a forum. If you want to just say stuff, get a blog and disable comments.

The fact of the matter is, a lot of people try to pick up Sol or Ky and either get frustrated, or start picking up extremely scrubby habits and get frustrated when they hit a wall.

Hard things to learn about Sol

-Your main combo requires specific spacing

-Your pokes don't flat out beat things as often as a lot of characters, except VV, which is easy to bait and you get hit hard for doing it.

-Your primary pressure game requires an FRC

-Your good mixup is for the most part reliant on things like fuzzy guard, tick throws, and quick VV RC stuff.

Bad habits you'll pick up with Sol:

-Random VV

-Random GV

-Relying on pressure game that looks solid to scrubs you might play, but is completely useless in high- or even intermediate-level play

Hard things about Ky:

-Comparatively TERRIBLE damage output. Having played a LOT of scrubs, this gets REALLY frustrating for them REALLY fast. "How come I can do like 5 combos on you and you won't die, and I die in like one?" (On top of the fact that they probably don't know their advanced stuff anyway)

-Is a zoning-heavy character in some cases and thus requires some careful thought.

-Has a pressure game that's reliant on specific timing and spacing, and you're using your oki to mix up to a greater extent than a good portion of the cast (Meaning you HAVE to get knockdowns).

-Due to the above, Ky is harder to succeed with rushing down if you're not familiar with basic fighting game stuff like going for knockdown and Zoning/spacing games.

Bad habits to pick up with Ky:

-Ending everything with stun dipper. Scrubs won't punish you for this but it's terrible on block.

-Spamming greed sever. It's a fine overhead, but playing against weaker players seems to give new blood the idea that it's a really safe, unbeatable move.

-Spamming fireball, spamming DP, etc.

Things I'm picking up on specifically are things that SEEM GOOD against bad people, and thus get ingrained in their habits. And sure, this will happen to players of any character. Bad habits happen, it's the way of the world. But

Why Jam is easier:

-Confirmable, easy to execute combo for big damage. Not optimal, but at least worth doing in a real match.

-Pokes that are designed to get counterhits, and moves to capitalize on them with.

-LOTS of chaining ability. Although high-level jams know what they're doing, it's definitely worth noting that a lot of the character's versatility is in having a broad set of chainable moves. This is something you can pick up on QUICK.

-Sure, there are a few bad habits you can pick up (Spam puffball, go for ground loop on block too often, airdash all the time), but there's a lot LESS of it, and if you're dedicated to playing good people, you'll lose these habits a lot faster than a Sol or a Ky who has bad habits.

Why Potemkin is also easier:

-Big damage for doing just about anything.

-Spamming stuff either gets you killed or makes you win.

-Some clear guidelines for certain situations. "Yeah, if you bait their reversal with a backdash, you're usually safe." "You can pot buster that." "If they're just standing way over there, slide head and hammerfall break to get in."

Anyway, I'd actually discourage leaning toward easier characters unless they specifically ask for them. If they want you to suggest a character, maybe familiarize yourself with basic playstyles of characters and ask what they want to be able to do.

NOTE ABOUT THIS: This doesn't mean you should teach them their character, unless you play them yourself. You probably have played a few, and can give misc tips if you know something other (X character)s do in a given situation, but generally you're not as knowledgeable as you think, so point them to videos or DL threads for actually getting down to business and learning their main.

EDIT:

Some "Teaching" notes.

The game should ultimately be something fun that you do. Sure, someone needs to be interested in a game in its own right to get to a high level. But it's really unpleasant to be in a really serious, non-social environment. It's not just about an abstract skill, it's about fun and community as well. Maybe you can sandbag a little, but your goal with a new person is to play the game, not to be a teacher. Helping them get going is just a means to an end.

So for fuck's sake, don't hold up the damn rotation to mess around not playing! I'd argue stopping the match to "show you something" is almost never as good a teaching tool as just playing matches, but if you're going to do it, don't do it while other people are waiting!

Also, letting people win is a little counterproductive. If you're dominating a rotation, don't lose on purpose, just jump out and let the newer players play each other instead of you. If you want, play a secondary (IE A character you suck at. Almost no one has multiple characters they're tournament-ready with in this game, it's too hard) to give them a fighting chance (Of course, if you're more than one skill tier ahead of them, you'll probably still win, so at least try to be solid. Point of fact: My Jam beats a WHOLE LOT of players. Am I a tournament-competent Jam player? Probably not.) Remember that if you're better than them, they are WATCHING what you do. Even if you suck at a character, if you're winning, they'll assume you know what you're doing with them. Thus, you should probably should avoid playing their character unless you REALLY are confident that you know actual solid stuff with them (Point of fact: You probably don't. If you must do it, go BASIC so you don't show them stupid habits.) At any rate, just flat dropping out of the rotation is a friendly way to avoid getting everyone frustrated. Go to the bathroom, get some food, just take a break, whatever. You can make winning fun and also not reward bad habits by giving away wins.

If you're going to sandbag, do it in a directed way. Identify a single bad habit that they have and DESTROY them for it, but in a way that makes it ultimately easier to beat you. For example, if you're playing a Sol player who always DPs on wakeup, always run up and block on oki. It's a sub-optimal playstyle, because you never get to oki him, but you're also probably going to win until he stops doing it. Maybe get thrown or something a few times before you start playing normally again. That way, you're using a combination of Negative Punishment (They stop DPing, they stop getting baited and killed) and Positive Reinforcement (They vary their wakeup, they get to beat you sometimes) to change their habits for the better.

[IronTager]

I'm not saying that. I'm just asking you don't call what I say "bullshit". Personally, I don't think Jam's that easy to use. I mean, a new player (in my opinion) won't know how to apply pressures well. Also, a good way to improve is for people to learn more than one character. (Not extensively, but somewhat. That way they can know what the character can and can't do.) Now, then, here's my thoughts as well. Feel free to discuss man, but I'm just saying, please don't state "bullshit".

Now then, let's see.

Sol - If you're learning Sol Badguy, it's easy to start up his basic combos in my honest opinion. He has the options that most good, basic characters have. A good projectile, a good anti-air, decentish overheads, good bread and butters, pretty decent pressures that can be applied, just good all around. In my opinion, this makes him a good character to start off with. He has everything that can be made efficient.

Ky - You have to remember, a lot of people are built on Street Fighter. Street Fighter's main priority is usually spacing, zoning, and using projectiles efficiently. It's like a normal practice in fighting games for people. Damage output isn't everything. But I agree, a lot of bad habits might come out of using Ky Kiske.

Jam - Jam is an easier pressure character. I can somewhat agree with this. A lot of what she does can be right, not to mention she's pretty fun to use. I won't really argue about this cause I can KINDA agree with you, but at the same time, it... doesn't work so well if the player can't pull off these combos. What's easy to me and you might not be easy to them my friend. That's why I think she might be harder to pick up.

Potemkin - Alright, I disagree with this. If you don't know how to close in with Potemkin, you're screwed. If you don't know how to stop pressures, you're done for. If you're not sure how to beat out projectiles, say goodbye. I'm not sure I'd call Potemkin an easy character to pick up for newbs unless someone uses grappler characters often and is just flat out precise. It's hard to use Potemkin if you don't know how to touch someone, get past projectiles, etc...

May - I can't argue to be honest, I haven't played her enough. She doesn't seem so easy because quite a few things have to be set up from what I've seen. She's a good hold character though and people are familiar with hold characters since SF is such a popular series. I think she's fun, but I do notice that at times, she is pretty punishable if pressured a bit. Still, she does more than enough damage to make up for it and having a small hitbox.

Also, that was a good point. It's a good idea to show them videos and tell them to check out Dustloop of course. The only problem with videos is that they might not comprehend it at first, so you mostly want to point them to Dustloop in order to learn. Also, I do retract some of what I say, you're right that it is probably best to ask them what they prefer or what they want to do. The beauty of Guilty Gear though is that you can (in my opinion) do almost anything with what character you choose. It's so friggen awesome <3 "^^ Eherm, by the way, the reason I suggest people play a variety is so that they don't get stuck with these habits (besides knowing how to beat characters better), they don't need to learn them to the extreme, but just have fun with them, tinker a bit. Anyways...

Yeah, people are more attracted to a friendlier environment. If you look like you're having fun, they might be tempted to have a bit of fun too. Still, generally people don't like losing. Maybe "pulling punches" isn't a good term... Treat it like a casual match. Let the player get use to the game a bit, let them know what they want to do. Playing really well and raping someone while they're learning is not fun for the other player, I assure you. Hell, sometimes my friend does it to me but I don't know crap about a game, I don't have fun that way and have to spend time outside of that learning the game. Remind the player that "Training mode is your best friend." Hell, I LOVE training mode. It's something another friend of mine and I do for days and days and days while learning. Then we play some matches, learn some more from that, and improve.

I wasn't really saying "Let them win", I'm more or less saying, go a bit easy on them. Maybe give them the chance to win on their level. It is counterproductive to let them win all the time because they DO need to improve somehow. If they keep winning, there won't be any flaws he sees in himself. It's not so easy teaching someone new. From a fighter's mind and from a non-fighter's mind, it's so different... They aren't really like us in my opinion, so you have to let them feel good and confident to work with them, then eventually when you see that they've gotten into it and are making a more serious commitment, they'll eventually want to learn more. Hell, I use to be that way looooong ago. I wasn't motivated to play the game, but when I started winning a bit, I was a tad bit satisfied with myself and wanted to learn more. Now, I don't care if I win or lose, I just want a good match and a character I like. Anyhow, this is just what I think.

If you have disagreements, feel free to share them. By the way Digital, favor. Can you list some names for characters? That way, people can be familiar to whom they should look up. I know that 012 is a very good Sol player. Woshige who plays Millia... Damn, he's good (Understatement). Miyako's a pretty good Dizzy in my opinion. I think Eji-Chan was his name, but he played a good Zappa. These are just some names). Anyhow, I don't mind so much that you disagree, I was just a bit peeved at the "bullshit" thing. I'm not going to say I'm not wrong, I'm human and can admit that. When I retracted my statement, I'm pretty much stating "I'm wrong about that, you made a good point."

[Digital Watches]

I'm not saying that. I'm just asking you don't call what I say "bullshit".

Okay so the gripe is with being vulgar? I can accept that. I'll try to be uh... nicer?

Sol - If you're learning Sol Badguy, it's easy to start up his basic combos in my honest opinion. He has the options that most good, basic characters have. A good projectile, a good anti-air, decentish overheads, good bread and butters, pretty decent pressures that can be applied, just good all around. In my opinion, this makes him a good character to start off with. He has everything that can be made efficient.

This is exactly what you would think... if you're on the "Sol = Ken = Shoto" bandwagon, which is just flat not true. Sol's bread and butter combo is a sidewinder loop (Or I guess BR loop?), and the clean hit thing is something new players are NOT going to be used to. Sure, you can do chain normals blah blah into DP->Kick, but EVERY character has something easy like that (Less a bnb combo than a basic chain), so it's kind of a moot point. Sol does NOT have a good projectile in the sense that people are used to using projectiles. Gunflame is relatively slow and has relatively low reach, and its main applications are in pressure. Sol's anti-airs are shaky compared to some other characters (5K is good, 6P is decent, average on the whole, if not below), and if you're using VV as your all-purpose AA, you're going to get baited a lot. The only real universally-usable (Corner riotstomp) grounded overhead Sol has is his Dust, which is again kind of average as dusts go and not good compared to a command overhead like slayer 6K or some TKable move that hits high. Again, viable Sol pressure NEEDS gunflame FRC to work well, and a lot of his game revolves around setting up tick wildthrow or aerial rushdown. Point is, Sol is NOT a shoto, he's not basic, and frankly, thinking that way is a great way to build some bad habits.

Ky - You have to remember, a lot of people are built on Street Fighter. Street Fighter's main priority is usually spacing, zoning, and using projectiles efficiently. It's like a normal practice in fighting games for people. Damage output isn't everything. But I agree, a lot of bad habits might come out of using Ky Kiske.

Okay, fair. People coming from streetfighter will probably be able to capitalize on Ky footsie ability better. But it's still a big hit at low levels (Ky is B-tier, so it's not like low damage makes him BAD per se) to not do any damage.

Jam - Jam is an easier pressure character. I can somewhat agree with this. A lot of what she does can be right, not to mention she's pretty fun to use. I won't really argue about this cause I can KINDA agree with you, but at the same time, it... doesn't work so well if the player can't pull off these combos.

Her basic damaging combos are REALLY easy compared to most of the cast.

What's easy to me and you might not be easy to them my friend. That's why I think she might be harder to pick up.

Well, that's the trick: What's easy to me includes learning FRCs, freestyling big combos, and all that nonsense. I wasn't talking about me, I was talking about Joe Everyman. Fact of the matter is, Jam has a lot of universal options (Puffballs, really good 2S, really good f.S, 5K, j.H, big huge pokey moves) that are pretty easy to see the uses of at a low level, and then go use them to win exchanges and get damage. Of course you still have to learn combos to do them, but it's easier than with a lot of other characters to get to an INTERMEDIATE level. This is not as true for Sol/Ky.

Potemkin - Alright, I disagree with this. If you don't know how to close in with Potemkin, you're screwed. If you don't know how to stop pressures, you're done for. If you're not sure how to beat out projectiles, say goodbye. I'm not sure I'd call Potemkin an easy character to pick up for newbs unless someone uses grappler characters often and is just flat out precise. It's hard to use Potemkin if you don't know how to touch someone, get past projectiles, etc...

Right, but Potemkin is easy to EXPLAIN. "I can't beat your projectile!" "Okay, flick it." "I don't know what to do about that move." "Hammerfall through it." Potemkin as a character just simply has OPTIONS that are pretty intuitive. 20F invulnerable backdash, fast command grab for tons of damage, fullscreen knockdown, and a run-replacement charge move with super armor. Sure, grapplers are non-intuitive, but Pot is really solid.

I think she's fun, but I do notice that at times, she is pretty punishable if pressured a bit.

Er. So is everyone. It's an offense-driven game, so pressure is good, QED.

Also, that was a good point. It's a good idea to show them videos and tell them to check out Dustloop of course. The only problem with videos is that they might not comprehend it at first, so you mostly want to point them to Dustloop in order to learn. Also, I do retract some of what I say, you're right that it is probably best to ask them what they prefer or what they want to do. The beauty of Guilty Gear though is that you can (in my opinion) do almost anything with what character you choose. It's so friggen awesome <3 "^^ Eherm, by the way, the reason I suggest people play a variety is so that they don't get stuck with these habits (besides knowing how to beat characters better), they don't need to learn them to the extreme, but just have fun with them, tinker a bit. Anyways...

I'm actually against telling new players to play a lot of characters. This game is hard enough to learn with one character, and sometimes the skillsets don't translate perfectly. Tinkering is great to learn about other characters' tools, but I'd say worry about that once you're at least intermediate and thinking on a metagame level.

I'm not gonna quote this whole paragraph...

Pulling punches really only serves to make bad habits, because that's exactly what it does. Like I said, try to specifically condition them out of bad habits if you must, or switch to a character you're no good at, or just hop out of the rotation. Sandbagging isn't going to help them, honestly. No one is really satisfied with winning against someone who isn't going all out. The win only means something if they know they really beat you. Even scrubs can tell.

If you have disagreements, feel free to share them. By the way Digital, favor. Can you list some names for characters? That way, people can be familiar to whom they should look up.

Er, I'm not really the one to ask about this. There are people here who follow the Japanese scene much better than I do, but uh... off the top of my head:

ABA: No clue

Anji: Keylime, or limekey, or whatever his name was. Does he still even play?

Axl: Shuuto, Niiyama, Meru, Udei, Nekomimi (Only recent ones, s/he wasn't always very good), Akira to an extent.

Baiken: Sharon?

Bridget: Ruu?

Chipp: SAMITTO!

Dizzy: H.H.

Eddie: Ogawa (Duh), Isa

Faust: RF?

I-No: KO1

Jam: Mike!

Johnny: Bleed?

Ky: Machaboo?

May: Efute

Millia: Yeah, Woshige

HOS: KAQN, Zero (0)

Pochumpkin: FAB!

Robot: Dogura, Nezumi

Slayer: Niga, Actually, there are a lot of good J-Slayers

Sol: No clue, honestly.

Testament: SHONEN!

Venom: N-O! (This guy and Shonen are probably the best players I've seen period)

Zappa: Imo?

[qwerty]

aba: fumo

dizzy: miyako

johnny: satou, suzume, kabegiwa no dc, omito, jonio

may: tanbo, kedako

zappa: chonari

as for some youtube channels to look up:

Goldenrody (matchvids from throughout AC's lifespan)

rodoringo (lots of pre-AC matchvids but also AC match/combo vids)

behindthefreezeR (lots of earlier AC matchvids)

FourAreFive (early AC matchvids and lots of combo videos)

GAMEacho (the most up to date shit you will find on youtube)

MDKXL (really old combo vids)

barrenscottinc (sbo 09, lol)

bigooooooohh (lots of combo videos)

[qwerty]

ps the best character for people coming from street fighter is slayer/potemkin

[IronTager]

Alright, cool. Have you guys been able to get anyone in on the game or brung GGAC to any tournaments and try to start up a side tourney thing? Some of the kids at my College actually know what Guilty Gear is, so I kinda have somewhat of an advantage with that. The biggest problem I'm worried about is if I do eventually take it to my next College (which might be Wayne State... Which is in Detroit) is that it might get stolen... No, I'm not racist, I just think that Detroit is a horrible place. Ironically, one of my best friends is from Detroit. Anyhow, from what from I can tell, they're not too good at my College. Still, it's a start that people are interested. The reason why I find it a problem due to location is because normally tournaments are held in the Detroit area. Hopefully, there'll be more of a rise. I guess I'll work on this area. Hopefully, things will pick up over here.

@Digital Watches

Well, I don't really think he's a shoto. You're right, his projectile is not like Ryu's where you just keep using them when someone gets close. I just think that Sol is a pretty basic and good rushdown character to start with. The best thing to do though, is watch the videos supported on youtube. There are quite a few nice people who've made tutorial videos for characters and specifics about them.

[Digital Watches]

Er, I guess we're just going to disagree on the Sol thing. Whatever. You've heard my arguments as to why that's just not the case, so there's not much more I can say.

Anyway, wish ya the best of luck in detroit. Hopefully you can get a scene going.

[IronTager]

Er, I guess we're just going to disagree on the Sol thing. Whatever. You've heard my arguments as to why that's just not the case, so there's not much more I can say.

Anyway, wish ya the best of luck in detroit. Hopefully you can get a scene going.

Yeah... It's alright man, people have disagreements. If you think Sol isn't so easy to pick up, I can't really disagree. I guess it might be for some. I don't know, I just picked him up pretty fast and have seen others do so, but that's not really a good reason cause they may be exceptions. Anyhow, is anyone else working on reviving the tournament scene around here?

(Also, good luck Digital)

[Digital Watches]

Yeah... It's alright man, people have disagreements. If you think Sol isn't so easy to pick up, I can't really disagree. I guess it might be for some. I don't know, I just picked him up pretty fast and have seen others do so, but that's not really a good reason cause they may be exceptions. Anyhow, is anyone else working on reviving the tournament scene around here?

(Also, good luck Digital)

Sorry to drag this out, but... when you say "picked him up," do you mean that you and these other people you mention are any good at him? Because being able to "pick up" a character can mean two different things. I mean, I can say with the utmost confidence that I could hit random select on the character screen and beat anyone who's a complete scrub. In fact, I could probably beat anyone two skill levels below me or worse that way. That doesn't make me good at every character.

[IronTager]

Sorry to drag this out, but... when you say "picked him up," do you mean that you and these other people you mention are any good at him? Because being able to "pick up" a character can mean two different things. I mean, I can say with the utmost confidence that I could hit random select on the character screen and beat anyone who's a complete scrub. In fact, I could probably beat anyone two skill levels below me or worse that way. That doesn't make me good at every character.

Yeah. It's not like they're good, but still, they're starting somewhere and that's what I enjoy to see. I don't know why, but people seem to take a good liking to Sol (He's definitely hard on a top level.) But yeah, I only mean they picked him up pretty well. They're not like, really good and have much to learn. The beauty of Guilty Gear is that every character has almost noooo limitation. That's why the game can get soooo advanced and every character is kind of "hard to learn" if you want to learn their full potential. On a top level, I 100% agree with you, Sol Badguy is hard to pick up. You have to learn to false roman a lot of his moves, rush down efficiently, etc... On a lower level, he's a bit easier to get use to and just has general things that are easier to do compared to some other characters. He's just really well rounded but has so much potential. Still, nobody can complain about Sol or anyone else in the game (Well, maybe Eddie a little) considering this IS the most balanced fighting game. God I love Guilty ;-; Eherm...

[Digital Watches]

Well, I'm operationally defining "Easy to pick up" as "Easy to get to a mid-level of play." I'd say Sol isn't particularly hard in that respect, but he's also not particularly easy, since intermediate game with sol involves CLSW and GF FRC, as well as at least some grasp of how to space with sol's fairly mediocre pokes.

[IronTager]

Yeah. The thing I love about Sol is that he's just... Well, he teaches so much on a low level. He's a good way to show how the game works and what the game's about a bit. That's another reason I'd recommend him if people can't make a choice. He shows how anti-airs work in the game, how false romans and romans work in general, how pressuring with your projectile can be a good thing, he's just overall a character that takes general features of a game and make them overall good. His starter combos aren't too bad either, though of course... As you progress, it can get kinda hard. He's just a good character in overall aspects of what the game represents. At least, that's what I think.