[CS1] Makoto vs. Tager

[Yukikaze]

I'v been using 214A-B to good effect in the match if something gets blocked, can it be 360'ed on reaction?

Also do Tagers 360s auto correct?

[farranpoison]

If you do 214AB on a Tager that's 360ing, there's a good chance that the 360 will auto correct and grab you. I really wouldn't recommend using 214AB unless they've been conditioned to not 360 during gaps in your blockstrings.

[Yukikaze]

I usually stop my blockstrings early if im gonna do it... so im half unpredictable.

How do i go about conditioning them to not 360? do some occasional jump attacks?

[farranpoison]

Either that or vary your timing on using 214A. It really depends on what your blockstrings look like and on how well the opponent's reaction time is.

[Eshi]

Does anyone know any mix-up shenanigans involving the Tager-specific loop? Other than the obvious, like staggering jCC enough to not combo.

[OmniSScythe]

If the 5CC > jCC loop is done near the max possible range you can j.8C to beat a mashed out AC and punished a whiff 360/720 or 2C, I also manage to get 214A~B to work after j.CC and keep the 360A facing the wrong way a few times but it could had been luck.

MATCH-UP STRATEGY!

First off do not jump in or attempt to use AV to get in against Tager, it's basically a free 2C or collider.

Approach:

Getting in on Tager generally leads into 3 things

-Dash 5A/2A: outside of 5A hitting tager crouching it's self explanatory.

-6C: Against Tager trying to "zone" with his normals like 5A/5C or 5D/j.D, 6C can be cancel into AV on block to get in, corner push on trade and and can lead to big damage on CH (on normal just 214B > j.AB > jc j.D)

-Walking (read: IB and/or parrying)

Tager's normal aren't exactly on the fast side, his "pokes" makes him the perfect target for for parry since his vulnerable to the "snap" effect even from a distance.

Against 5C/5D/4D/6C just parry and if it's done from far enough you can combo from the level 3 with 5A into 2-3k damage, however 5C can gatling into other normals or drive if done from enough. This is where the fun stuff start, if for some reason they go into 6A, 3C, 6C, 6B, or 4D you can space counter the whiff and if fatal you can combo into 5B > 6A > jc j.CB > jc delay j.B > j.623C~D(whiff) 5B > 6A > whatever into 4k damage or if you good at the 2362366D input you can going into some ridiculous 9k damage combo or so. If they gatling into 5D you can let it whiff then do space counter level 1 or stay neutral, do the same if they going into that spark bolt charge state. If they 2D just stay neutral and 5CC when you recover.

Pressure:

-Try to avoid using her BnB as a blockstring, if you want an overhead just go for a tick into 6B or just flat out use 6B instead of 5CC, also can use 2B > 214A~C~A.

-When using 5CC try to delay the timing of the second C to avoid an IB, Tager's 360's can only grab you out of 6B on IB, 720 is a threat at all times. In case of IB just use 214C~Barrier (you cannot be hit out of start up due to hitstun). Another option if you have a good reaction and 50 heat is to buffer particle flare and hit D when you see his arm going for a 360's/720(is harder to notice)/2C or collider.(not recommend)

-3C/j.2C/236A~D or 214A~C~A on block is not in our advantage with tager, jump cancel that shit.

-Use Tager specify combos like 5CC > j.CC or combing 214A~C~A > 2D(3) on crouch.

-Corner oki on Tager is stronger then on most due to cosmic cannon picking him off the ground if he doesn't tech.

[Nini Heart]

This matchup feels in Makoto's favour IMO. Delayed 5CC works well to fuck up his I.B>Grab on 6B, but anyways, you have options to deal with it.

Tick overheads/lows work well on him due to him not having any frame 1 invincible shit till he gets meter.

Tager specific combos make corner carry and big meterless damage merge together. Once again, no frame 1 invincible meterless shit means he has to respect your corner oki a LOT.

When you're magnetized, parry is your friend. If you're feeling it, you can ride a 5D's pull with a 3C for big damage(or one less burst to worry about).

On Gadget finger oki, BBS beats everything he does except blocking and 5A(trade or will hit you out of startup) and is still safe on block.

Anti airing him with 6A is tricky and risky as he can do J.2C and fuck you up for free. I rather stick with J.B anti air in this match. Even if he blocks, you get to apply pressure by mashing on jab till you land. If you get CH, it's a free 6K combo cause 5CC>2D or 5B>6A>2D don't require special positioning on Tager due to his hitbox.

Random 3Cs will get you screwed. He can 360/720 that shit. Don't be dumb and hope for random shit to win. Still, if you do happen to throw one and he blocks it, you can safely apply pressure unless he IBd it.

Most tagers like to sledge when you comet cannon. You can hit him by delaying the launch of the projectile(won't be lvl 3 though, so no combo for you).

XX string into 214B is risky because of 2C. You can barrier it, but he can cancel it into 4d if you block it so you get magnetized in the end and he gets to apply pressure.

214C is a bit different because you can fuck him up with J.2C CH, but if he's expecting it, he can do shit like backdash buster to punish you.

214A~A/B is not safe. You can and WILL be 360'd out of that if the tager knows the matchup well. If not he can just mash 5A and apply his pressure. Use it when you determine what kind of player you're facing(safe/defensive, mashy/agressive, patient/passive, etc)

214A~C~A/B is - on block and very unsafe on IB. 214A~C~A is -3, B is -7, so it's punishable even non IB with a 360. You can just stop at 214A~C and continue pressure if you don't wanna take too much risks.

[Crosell]

i've been having trouble with the tager match up in cs2. I really used 3c to get under 5d and 5c, which are his main pokes. After fighting coopa and orion they both blew me up, i just felt like I could never get in. When I could, I could wreck face. Match up just feels so much different than cs1.