[CS1] Makoto vs. Hazama

[worldjem7]

Very silly match-up.

3C goes under his snakes.

Discuss.

[farranpoison]

I haven't tried fighting a good Hazama yet, but from my experience of playing Haz I say the matchup is either even, or 5.5-4.5 in Hazama's favor.

Hazama can poke all day with chains on Makoto, seeing as she can't do crap from far away. Her projectile is also kind of useless as most Hazamas will jump and j.6D/j.5D poke anyway. However, once Makoto gets in close, Hazama can't do much without meter.

Does Makoto orb beat standing Hazama 5D chain? Or does it cancel out?

[worldjem7]

her 3C goes under his 5D chain. What pokes? lol

She can get close so easily on Hazama's regular strategy that he uses on everyone.

He has to be in the air for his snakes to work properly.

[DJHUOSHEN]

3C requires you to be predictive and not overly active with it to be good. He can 3C you back into BnB if he can react to it. Other than that, yeah, Mak's 3C will clear under 5D snakes all day.

Magic ball cancels with snake, you won't hit Haz when he comes in if the ball clashes with the snake. Don't mess up drive swings, mistiming will gets you eating DAS BOOT if he has meter.

Stay grounded. If he tries to approach you with snake chains, just DP, Parry, 5A or block. If he's baiting you with stance to come in, ball up and shoot it in. You can GIGANTIC FIST him from snakes.

[Big Red Tie]

parry a snake

fatal counter the followup

win the match

hazama can't zone makoto out nearly well enough, and once she gets in on him he is going to have a tough time. i can see hazama getting guard broken in this matchup.

[Antihippy]

parry a snake

fatal counter the followup

win the match

Couldn't hazama just not be an idiot and cancel chain with A on hit? or does the follow up still hit him anyway?

Also get on IRC BRT.

[Big Red Tie]

depends on the distance

It was a joke. It was joke time.

[Antihippy]

Your joke time is the worst time.

Also, 3C goes under 5D, but what about stuff like j 4D or j 6D?

[Black Onslaught]

Oh my god.

You can not base an entire matchup off of 3C going under 5D.

What the hell is wrong with you people?

What's next, Ragna's matchups are all 10-0 because Inferno Divider goes through everything?

Her projectile works weird versus Hazama's chains.

They clash and the projectile disappears, or they clash and Hazama gets hit. It's weird.

Makoto has shitty range and needs to get in close to do anything. Hazama is obviously poking her, and trying to hitconfirm into his only combo of derpj.214B#. You want to approach ( lol Makoto approaching ) and pressure him. Hazama has -no- reversals without meter, 214D~B sucks outside of someone airdashing at Hazama while he's in that stance ( which ..should never happen, but it does ).

A good Hazama will try to IB your 5CC and go for momentum change with 5A/2A, and of course when he's at 40ish meter he'll be IBing a lot so be careful of what you're throwing out unless you want to eat 5.6k+.

That's pretty much it, unless someone else has words of wisdom that put me to shame.

[OmniSScythe]

Okay so parrying 5D chain into space counter doesn't hit Hazama unless he tries to follow up, otherwise if the spacing is right just use space counter LV1/2 asap to get into his range fast and FC, LV3 at right spacing will hit him out of recovery.

In the air it's possible to hit him (non-FC) as he recovers from from his air chain with a space counter LV3, Standard followup is probably 5A > [5B] > 6A > sj.C > j.B > dj.C > j.B j.623~D for 3100-[3300] damage off non FC, Probably could go for relaunch with sj.C > j.B > dj.C > j.D (LV3) If level 1 or 2 then you'll just be at close range which is also good.

[Halcyone3]

Oh my god.

You can not base an entire matchup off of 3C going under 5D.

What the hell is wrong with you people?

What's next, Ragna's matchups are all 10-0 because Inferno Divider goes through everything?

Her projectile works weird versus Hazama's chains.

They clash and the projectile disappears, or they clash and Hazama gets hit. It's weird.

Makoto has shitty range and needs to get in close to do anything. Hazama is obviously poking her, and trying to hitconfirm into his only combo of derpj.214B#. You want to approach ( lol Makoto approaching ) and pressure him. Hazama has -no- reversals without meter, 214D~B sucks outside of someone airdashing at Hazama while he's in that stance ( which ..should never happen, but it does ).

A good Hazama will try to IB your 5CC and go for momentum change with 5A/2A, and of course when he's at 40ish meter he'll be IBing a lot so be careful of what you're throwing out unless you want to eat 5.6k+.

That's pretty much it, unless someone else has words of wisdom that put me to shame.

speaking of 3C and his stance, ive had some fun vs scrubby hazamas who start the round with the stance, 3C under their moves (xcept with the low one, but who the hell starts with that?). But what u described there pretty much sums up my vs hazama experience. Hazama has always been a hard to approach character to me, and makoto's lack of tools in that domain don't help me any.

What i'm doing is baiting him to come to me by using the ball. Feinting the D follow-up (not doing it) to actually move in, or just turtle till he moves on me himself.

[Andarel]

Hazama can easily 214D~C on reaction to 3C (since 3C is friggin' slow) and catch you into a ch combo with blue-charged C followup, so that's generally a dangerous plan. At least, I learned quickly not to do it.

Main problem? Hazama can turtle much better than Makoto can, since he has chains. Sure the ball can beat them out, but considering he can feint and has much better approaches, and the fact that all Makoto's approaches are beat clean by Jayoku (and most other stuff he can do...).

[Mystic Eyes]

Last night I was playing a Hazama and I actually parried his Jayoku, the slap sent him flying onto his face. It was quite hilarious. Parrying the snakes is fun too. >.>;

But I usually use 214b to close the distance if I'm fullscreen away, since using 214c could get 623d'd(I forget the name of that move...Jakou?), but if I'm midscreen I did use 3c, and 214b some moar.

[Breakman6]

Is there any "safe" way to approach in the air with Koto against Hazama? I, too discovered the 3C was okay, but the Hazama learned and just started poking me out of it.

[worldjem7]

you can cancel 214B and 214C with Barrier as well as any move.

[DJHUOSHEN]

With meter, buffer 632146 and nail that D if he attempts to come in via snakes. Nothing he can do against a L3 FIST. You can also safely parry after he comes in. If he does nothing you should be able to block in time, but if he attempts to do anything coming in, free parry to punch.

[Breakman6]

Thanks for the help, I'll give all of those suggestions a try.

[JinSaotome]

This matchup suuuucks for Makoto, 3C is very easily baited with a 5D~A -> Whatever, or even just j.6D'd on reaction if you were stupid and threw it out randomly. Asteroid Vision is 214D~B'd on reaction (afaik, maybe you can bait with 214A~D?)and otherwise you just sit an eat snakes all day on the opposite side of the screen. I agree that Space Counter is probably your best shot at getting in, and even that can be baited depending on spacing. On the brightside, as Black Onslaught said, getting out of pressure as Haz is very difficult without meter, and he can't really build an offensive and rush you down after a KD since his only good pressure tools are 5B (which only goes so far) and 214D~A (parriable on reaction, though good Hazamas will try and fake you out)

So yeah.

SUPAH EDIT: also, Big Bang Smash them if they are playing terribly, that shit is free.

[Breakman6]

This matchup suuuucks for Makoto, 3C is very easily baited with a 5D~A -> Whatever, or even just j.6D'd on reaction if you were stupid and threw it out randomly. Asteroid Vision is 214D~B'd on reaction (afaik, maybe you can bait with 214A~D?)and otherwise you just sit an eat snakes all day on the opposite side of the screen. I agree that Space Counter is probably your best shot at getting in, and even that can be baited depending on spacing. On the brightside, as Black Onslaught said, getting out of pressure as Haz is very difficult without meter, and he can't really build an offensive and rush you down after a KD since his only good pressure tools are 5B (which only goes so far) and 214D~A (parriable on reaction, though good Hazamas will try and fake you out)

So yeah.

SUPAH EDIT: also, Big Bang Smash them if they are playing terribly, that shit is free.

I've definitely been using the Big Bang lv3 against snake spammers. This matchup is really gross imo, though, as I feel I have to work twice as hard. One mess up and I'm getting DP'd by snakes all day er'day. I've been trying to bait with the 214A~D, but it's a little risky. Though admittedly it might just be me, as I'm really new to playing any other character aside from Tager. :/

[DJHUOSHEN]

BTW you can throw a 2A to get out of Hazama's 214D~A without letting off the crouch. Can't combo off it, but it's a solid GET AWAY FROM ME with chance at your own pressure on his oki.

Remember AsteroidB/C can be barriered to cancel it, so if you want to throw it, bait the 214D~B, and then nail him with a falling jCC after blocking, go for it. Also note that AsteroidC is a great approach method if the Hazama suddenly goes airborne, as his airborne snake poke attempts will whiff you completely (AsteroidC will clear over his jD amazingly). While flying at him, you can attempt to Arrow him (D), airgrab, jC, jB, w/e. I suggest jB only because sometimes you'll be falling short of the C and D options if he's still in the air as you get closer (which he usually is, given he's still airborne after snakes). Of course if he burns a charge and flys away, you're none the worse off.

PS I suggest a dash before AsteroidC. If you do the dash, he'll either assume a straight dash or a quick IA dash, to which he'll generally respond with a j2D? (the forward down 30 degree) snake, which does a fairly good job covering both the dash and the IA dash attempts. AsteroidB would get hit, but AsteroidC will clear completely.

[JammyKuradoberi]

what can we do if hazama gets us with D(snake) then goes to the back to attack,I feel like i can only hit him out of it when I block the snake and he continues

then 2A mash works

[Fieryelf]

It's an annoying match up imo, every time i fight an hazama as makoto, it's just, run up to him, oops no he ran on the other side of the screen, run up to him again, oops no again... and on and on and on... Hate playing Tag in a fighting game -_-

[jmuzz]

Makoto vs Hazama is definitely a patience matchup. If you don't want to play tag you probably picked the worst game and the worst character to play.

I don't see anything particularly in Hazama's favor in this matchup, as long as you can avoid getting frustrated with the constant runaway and keep playing smart you'll get opportunities to get damage in and win.

Like vs. any keepaway character it helps to get used to doing her poking combos like (optional b) -> 6c -> 214a -> c -> a (or mixup if they block) because if you only rely only on her high damage combos that require short range you won't have many damage opportunities.

[HIGEKING42]

i think you can still 3c that

Bait his flash kick then hit him

he D's in parry it

[OmniSScythe]

Don't attempt to 3C at all, do not dash half heartily because CH 3C will put in a world of hurt (not now cause it's new to people but keep it in mind). Don't try to hit on a normal blocked chain unless he's really far away, on IB you can 6A or parry (on reaction). Stay grounded most of the time unless he's close range and at a good height to be j.B against.