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Kurushii

[CS1-CSE] Makoto Nanaya Critique and Self-Improvement Thread

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Thx Pachi, didn't know about the ACA thingy on Tager. Gonna try to learn that.

And yeah, 3C can be 360/720d but most people don't know the matchup so i can still get away with it :)

Gotta stop abusing it, though.

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wtf commentary.

Anyway. I'm leaving soon so I'll just point it some things I've noticed at first glance: You seem to get a little desperate when under the opponent's pressure and start mashing a little. At 0:42 you landed a CH j.B, you could have dealt much more damage than that.

Regarding the Noel matchup specifically, don't mash or let yourself get hit by her Drive that much. You know, invencibility and all. Makoto's j.2C is really good for that match-up as well, since Noel doesn't have anything to counter j.2C that well. Also you shouldn't have much problem blocking her Drive strings, only paying attention to an eventual d.6B, which is a overhead. Noel's blockstrings aren't also that good, so you should be able to block them without much difficulty. Whenever you have the chance, use your 2A to punish her blockstring gaps.

tl;dr: don't get desperate and block until you are sure you can go for 2A confirm. People may joke about Omni's 2A (people in my country joke about it as well, feels bad), but hers is really really good so you should use it more often.

Oh yeah, and... TECH THROWS! But I think you already know, judging by your complaints about how you couldn't tech throws in that match, hahahah.

And lol Luna going for dem airthrows.

EDIT: For the record, it's 5AM and I don't know what I'm talking about.

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Yeah, I can't really handle pressure well coming from SF4 where I always had good DPs and all you had to do was hold down back, mash jab and watch out for crossups and throws.

I need to learn to block.

And I have a somehow hard time hit confirming J.B CH into 66236A~D(3)/2C>big damage.

Also I can't tech airthrows. At all. Is there anyway to improve one's reaction time?

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Yeah, I can't really handle pressure well coming from SF4 where I always had good DPs and all you had to do was hold down back, mash jab and watch out for crossups and throws.

I need to learn to block.

And I have a somehow hard time hit confirming J.B CH into 66236A~D(3)/2C>big damage.

Also I can't tech airthrows. At all. Is there anyway to improve one's reaction time?

Oh SF4, always fucking up.

Well, you just need to pay attention to CHs. That's all. And that applies to throws as well. The way you were jumping around, it was pretty easy for him to just airdash and airthrow you, and that's what he actually kept doing. He also used j.A to make you airtech so that he could airthrow you again. So, like I said, you need to remember that you can always be target of throws. That should help your reaction time when it happens. Well, that's what I do. Especially when blocking strings and even you are receiving a combo. People sometimes let themselves get caught by a purple throw because of that. rofl

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juicy combo in the first round :toot:

Hiago said everything that was needed to be said.

And try to not to drop those combos bro! You woulda had that ass on the last round if you didnt choke twice lol :sweat:

@Hiago

Im having Noel troubles too. Simply because Im a noob and I havent played many of them

Where are the gaps in her blockstrings?

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Anything that isn't 5A > 5B > 5C > 2C has a gap in it, having a DP kills Noel's pressure, but to be honest, having normals that aren't terrible kills Noel's pressure.

Nini Heart, my advice for you, for one, don't jump so much, my main source of damage was from yomi'ing your jumps with an IAD grab, you also tended to try and mash when in pressure, which allowed me to 2D whenever I ended a blockstring, which gave me a combo. Fighting Noel is really easy, you have to be patient, Noel is only strong when on the defensive, because her drives are her only real way to escape pressure, she can nail overly aggressive players because we learn your habbits and adapt to them, and exploit them with Drive, similar to a good DP character like Ragna, except her drives don't offer the true invuln that a real DP has, but to compensate they give off alot more damage, so pressure Noel the same way you would pressure Ragna.

If you guys want to know the secret to beating Noel's drives, here it is: They aren't DPs.

If you are pressuring a Noel she has 3 options, 4D, 5D, and 2D

4D only gives mid-to-upper body invuln, so any low attack rapes it, and its invuln isn't even that good, your best friend here is 2A, it kills Noel's 4D.

5D only has invuln from 5 frames after its startup, so if you think Noel is gonna 5D out of pressure, use a frame trap, anything that has a 1-2 frame hole will beat out 5D, and as long as the move isn't low it will beat out 2D as well.

2D has low invuln from frame 1, but isn't airborne until frame 5, so tick throws will never work if Noel is spamming 2D, the best way to beat out this move during pressure is to throw out an anti-air in pressure strings, 6A will work fine, the best way to do this would be to 2A > 2A > 2B > 6A, because nothing makes us want to 2D more than seeing a bunch of low moves.

When getting pressured by Noel, she is in danger, because Noel only relies on gimmicks and drive, so she will poke you for a bit, but eventually she is going to drive, in the hopes that you threw out something to try and beat her pressure, here's some general tips:

Block low, and react to 6B, its really slow, and really easy to spot.

3C is punishable on block, but has no hitstop, so you need to react a little quicker to get the most damage out of your punish.

During drive strings, she is in great danger, if she keeps going you can punish with anything because most of her drive moves lose invuln during her follow ups, DP will always win, but may clash with 4D, or even lose to 4D, but your DP will put you in the air, so we can't combo you very well after an awkward 4D hit. As a rule, once you see 2D, and block it, feel free to mash 2A, if done right you will beat us out of anything, and if you expect an assault through, a late 2A will beat that out as well. Assault Through is punishable on block, so you can 5B > combo after blocking it, Spring Raid is terrible on block, you can easily 5C punish it, Bloom Trigger is also punishable, but it has massive pushback, if you can IB the last hit, you should have enough time to dash in and 2A for a punish.

I'd be willing to answer any other questions regarding Noel you may have, so feel free to ask.

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Well.

Firstly, I think you're mashing 2A way too hard. You just need to confirm 2A once, after all. Then, at 0:36, you've used 214A~CCC. You could've gone for a 5D. Don't use j.2C like that; you're abusing of it way too much, and using it when too high in the air makes you an easy target. You also need to improve your mix-up game.

As for someting related to her matchup: Don't try to get in with IAD j.C, it sucks.

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. You also need to improve your mix-up game.

.

hmmm any examples you could list. since makotos mixs up are either pretty bad or unsafe (anything that combos into asteroid vision) and thanks for the fast response im probaby gonna be facing this guy again in a tourny on sunday.

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hmmm any examples you could list. since makotos mixs up are either pretty bad or unsafe (anything that combos into asteroid vision) and thanks for the fast response im probaby gonna be facing this guy again in a tourny on sunday.

They aren't BAD, but yes, unsafe. I wish I could say "deal with it".

Some exemples to improve blockstrings that don't really need AV:

- 2A > 6B

- Including 2B in blockstrings.

- Including 6A in blockstrings, jump cancelling sometimes.

- Adding 2C every once in a while (in case they block, you can cancel into 214B)

- Delayed 5CC

And so on. With Asteroid Vision this can go even farther.

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They aren't BAD, but yes, unsafe. I wish I could say "deal with it".

Some exemples to improve blockstrings that don't really need AV:

- 2A > 6B

- Including 2B in blockstrings.

- Including 6A in blockstrings, jump cancelling sometimes.

- Adding 2C every once in a while (in case they block, you can cancel into 214B)

- Delayed 5CC

And so on. With Asteroid Vision this can go even farther.

ah ok thanks buddy!... i do tend to use 2c once i condition people into fearing an overhead. but often forget to cancel a block 2c into 214b. altho i auto pilot into 213c (since i use comet cannon loop alot)

delayed 5CC, interesting... wasn't anything into 5cc unsafe in general? and anybody with a dragon punch could just hit tru the gap.

also i tend to not use that since i fight gainst alot of tagers and blocked 5cc equals grabs.

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What Hiago said, and really work on your hit confirm. Also be aware of your surroundings. At 0:36, you were almost in the corner, and you could have a done a better combo leading into corner oki which would at the very least cost him a burst. You dropped a lot of combo opportunities such as 0:23, and 0:50 and 53. 0:50 and 53 especially were really good openings. Opponent in the corner, non A starter = big damage + oki or HUGE damage. If you had confirmed all those opportunities, you would have SURELY won the first round. I'm not really sure what you tried to do at 0:53. Why the 6C?

Same thing in the second round. A lot of dropped combo opportunities, no hit confirms, no combos at all. Also, at 2:21 when he was doing his fireball, you should have BBS. BBS any dumb full screen move your opponent is doing. They'll learn that doing dumb random shit against Makoto is not smart.

Also, learn to grab/tick throw. You didn't try a single grab in the whole match except when you missed your 214A~C-mash combo.

I think you just need to get more familiar with Makoto. Learn combos, learn her mixups, learn to do different block strings. Also, XX>Asteroid Vision> B J.2C> Hit confirm into 5C on CH, 2a on normal hit, jump cancel on block is a pretty damn safe option against a lot of characters.

For the Tsubaki matchup particularly, punish her aerial dive and her midscreen dash attack (236X) with 3C for big damage. All of Makoto's jump ins lose to her 2C except J.2C, so be carefully about jumping in on her. Her pokes outrange you, so remember that. Also, don't respect her DP. It trades all day with everything and can even get stuffed sometimes.

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And I have a somehow hard time hit confirming J.B CH into 66236A~D(3)/2C>big damage.

Also I can't tech airthrows. At all. Is there anyway to improve one's reaction time?

When in doubt if 2C/2366A would work just go for 5CC, you may be able to do 5CC > 2D(3) or 5CC > 2D(1) > 5CC > 2D(3) into lighting arrows.

Also play with the AI in training mode, they tend to try to grab a lot.

or find a friend who a MASTER at air grabbing in any game

:psyduck:

ah ok thanks buddy!... i do tend to use 2c once i condition people into fearing an overhead. but often forget to cancel a block 2c into 214b. altho i auto pilot into 213c (since i use comet cannon loop alot)

delayed 5CC, interesting... wasn't anything into 5cc unsafe in general? and anybody with a dragon punch could just hit tru the gap.

also i tend to not use that since i fight gainst alot of tagers and blocked 5cc equals grabs.

Actually with Tager the only way he can punish 5CC is with IB or 50 heat (which in that case AV C out of there), otherwise 6B to punish any Tager mashing grab.

Try practicing hit confirming a CH off her 5B/5C, you should improve a bit more while bettering your combos.

Also feel free to try AV canceling your own combo (off of 2A/j.2C) for another chance at better damage though I mainly use this in the corner since her grab is almost hidden from view and does as much as a lot of her starters.

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thanks guys for the advice.. the funny thing is i am quite capable of doing alot of makoto combos, including her comet loop. it just i can't seem to land it on people (well decent people anyway).. i guess i should stopping using a static dummy. and set it to ai.. since hitcomfirms are are my biggest weakness.

i used to use ragna, and never ever really used his A buttons. since 5b was that good.. can't wait for makoto new 5b! so i guess i hard wired to mash As

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When in doubt if 2C/2366A would work just go for 5CC, you may be able to do into lighting arrows.

Also play with the AI in training mode, they tend to try to grab a lot.

OMG that shit works so well!! It makes a huge difference too. Timing on 2D is a bit stiff but i'm getting it more often than not now.

Thanks a lot bro.

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Lots of dropped combos, lots of unsafe stuff, lots of random mashing, lots of non optimized combos. Seems like you just started

I'd advise you to work on getting used to BB footsies and then focus on trying to complete the challenges.

Post a new video once you get a better grasp of BB footsies and a few combos.

Also first round I was like WTF? Makoto has a DP, and you should have been teching those throws at the very least.

And you realllyyyyyyyy need to play better players. That jin was super scrubby.

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Yes i have just started, so im not used to BB footsies and block strings, and i met the jin in a player match. Thanx for the advice, i willl post another vid after im more used to fotsies and have a solid BNB

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Inp4Ee6cwk

Dunno why I played so sloppily in the first round. I don't usually drop 214A~C mash or grab combos >.>.

Too much 3C as usual, the Jin probably did not know the match-up or I would have eaten some fat FC combo in the beginning.

I also need to work on optimal 2B starter combo in corner too. I can barely break 4k with a 2B starter and no meter in corner.

Omni edit: Fixed to correct video

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Try to avoid using 214A~C~A/B to often, stopping at A~C seems to more helpful then the high/low. Mix in a few 6A > 6B and perhaps use 214A for resets once in a while to keep them honest. As far as 2B goes you can go for lighting arrows though you need a clean hit j.D for it to work. Hit confirm those CH 5B/5C when mid-screen, big chunks of damage goes unnoticed if you don't go straight into 2C. You could had punish that burst hard, 2C might of missed but you could had done 5B > 2D(1) > 5CC > 2D > etc. Also let say you stuff a backdash/jump with 2A/5A/5B you can go into 6A > 623C~D(whiff) 5A (5B on better starters) > 6A > air combo or corner push.

As far as Jin go you can bait and/or punish his DP's with 3C, also parry like a mad man

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I'm not too good with parrying as I generally end up eating a fat combo instead of landing one, but i'm gonna try incorporating that into my game.

Thanks for the tips, gonna go work on some of the stuff you mentioned later on XBL,

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Hello, new makoto player here.

I had a few questions about her combos that I can't seem to grasp when practicing. These might be some very noobish questions since I'm not that familiar with the fighting game genre and trying to break ground with BB.

6A (Used as anti-air) > jc > j.C > j.B > jc > > dj.C 623C~D (LV3)

My problem is I can't pull off the j.B without doing a dj whenever I do a j.c j.c, when I try to do so there seem to be too much recovery frames until she reaches the ground. So am I missing something here? Or is it just my timing that is out of place?

・5CC > 6B~C > 5D (LV3) > 2D (LV3) > jc > j.D (LV3) > 2B > 6A > jc > j.C > j.B > djc > j.C > j.B > 623C~D (LV3)

With this one I just think my timing is off, but I'm having a really hard time trying to hit with the 2D, seems almost nigh impossible for me at the moment. Whenever I try this he recovers at the same time as my strike and it misses.

Any help would be appriciated.

And I don't know if this is relevant but I'm playing the console version, EU edition, with stick.

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Hello, new makoto player here.

I had a few questions about her combos that I can't seem to grasp when practicing. These might be some very noobish questions since I'm not that familiar with the fighting game genre and trying to break ground with BB.

6A (Used as anti-air) > jc > j.C > j.B > jc > > dj.C 623C~D (LV3)

My problem is I can't pull off the j.B without doing a dj whenever I do a j.c j.c, when I try to do so there seem to be too much recovery frames until she reaches the ground. So am I missing something here? Or is it just my timing that is out of place?

・5CC > 6B~C > 5D (LV3) > 2D (LV3) > jc > j.D (LV3) > 2B > 6A > jc > j.C > j.B > djc > j.C > j.B > 623C~D (LV3)

With this one I just think my timing is off, but I'm having a really hard time trying to hit with the 2D, seems almost nigh impossible for me at the moment. Whenever I try this he recovers at the same time as my strike and it misses.

Any help would be appriciated.

And I don't know if this is relevant but I'm playing the console version, EU edition, with stick.

For the first combo, the problem you are having is that you are reading jc as "Jump C" while it stands for "Jump Cancel". If it's written "jc" in means "Jump Cancel", if it is "j.C" it is "Jump C".

For the second, just go into training mode and try to find the earliest time you can do 2D out of 5D and practice that.

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Oh... what an epic fail on my part. :toot:

Ok, I'll keep practicing the 2D, must be very strict timing on it. :sweatdrop:

Thanks for asnwering my noobery.

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