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Black Onslaught

[CS1-CSE] Valkenhayn General Discussion

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been getting back in the game, practicing all sorts of Valk gimmicks for a tourney I have in february

GONNA STEAL THEIR MONEY ARF ARF ARF (W) j.B > 5D > INTO ANYTHING

HAHAHA "gimmicks"

sure buddy have no idea what you meant by what you posted also...

cough *TIER WHORE* cough

why not stick to Makoto doubt its an Extend tournament

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HAHAHA "gimmicks"

sure buddy have no idea what you meant by what you posted also...

cough *TIER WHORE* cough

why not stick to Makoto doubt its an Extend tournament

Yeah, the guy who played him since day one definitely knew he was gonna be top tier :v:

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Thoughts on creating EX MU threads?

As in match up threads? CSX is out on console now (albeit not localized outside Japan), so it would seem like a good time to put up the threads and start adding info/asking questions.

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As in match up threads? CSX is out on console now (albeit not localized outside Japan), so it would seem like a good time to put up the threads and start adding info/asking questions.

Yup. Alright, I'll create some to get some discussion going on around here.

I can also include main points in my first post to people can keep track rather than searching through threads. :v:

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Thank you, Kiba. I'm a little sad that I can't contribute now; I don't have Extend and can't test things. Useful for the people that do have it though.

Caught this on YT. It's actually from Kurushii's channel, and I figured I should share it with you guys.

PS3 online match delyuku (RL) Vs nisi_2372_tao (VH)

I don't think I've ever seen someone do [h]2A > 5D > [w]5A as a way of slipping into wolf form for pressure before. He actually just seems to like flipping inbetween human and wolf randomly; there were a couple points where he'd do [w]j.A > land 5D > [h]2A for pressure, despite having near full wolf meter, just to jump cancel into j.D > 3C > j.A. I personally can't figure out the logic behind it.

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Thank you, Kiba. I'm a little sad that I can't contribute now; I don't have Extend and can't test things. Useful for the people that do have it though.

No problem. I actually don't have EX myself, heh. Though, there may be having another session this week, so I can build the MU threads a lil more.

I don't think I've ever seen someone do [h]2A > 5D > [w]5A as a way of slipping into wolf form for pressure before. He actually just seems to like flipping inbetween human and wolf randomly; there were a couple points where he'd do [w]j.A > land 5D > [h]2A for pressure, despite having near full wolf meter, just to jump cancel into j.D > 3C > j.A. I personally can't figure out the logic behind it.

The Valk did give me a few new ways of varying pressure. I'll have to experiment with those later. [w]j.A > land 5D > [h]2A is something I may want to consider more. I tend to retreat after [w]j.A - j.B pressure because everyone also seems to hit me out of anything else I try. So, rather than continuuing pressure with 2A, we could go for a throw for instance for guaranteed corner carry.

Looks like Valk can avoid Relius's 214B quite easily too, but I wonder if he cash dash towards him and attack him with j.A in time instead?

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The Valk did give me a few new ways of varying pressure. I'll have to experiment with those later. [w]j.A > land 5D > [h]2A is something I may want to consider more. I tend to retreat after [w]j.A - j.B pressure because everyone also seems to hit me out of anything else I try. So, rather than continuuing pressure with 2A, we could go for a throw for instance for guaranteed corner carry.

That is something to consider. He may be doing that to both allow himself to block and make them not want to poke thanks to 2A > 2C being a frame trap and 2A > j.D > 3C > j.A jumping over most low pokes. At the very least, it's another way of going about it.

Looks like Valk can avoid Relius's 214B quite easily too, but I wonder if he cash dash towards him and attack him with j.A in time instead?

It looked like Nisi was jumping backwards after a certain point in order to avoid getting caught by Delyuku's IAD > j.A. I do have to wonder if Delyuku was just messing up meaty 214B though; being able to jump out means that everyone can just jump back > airdash backwards to get out.

If you mean having Valk IAD forward > j.A, I'm not entirely certain. Relius' 214B looks like it recovers really quickly.

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It looked like Nisi was jumping backwards after a certain point in order to avoid getting caught by Delyuku's IAD > j.A. I do have to wonder if Delyuku was just messing up meaty 214B though; being able to jump out means that everyone can just jump back > airdash backwards to get out.

If you mean having Valk IAD forward > j.A, I'm not entirely certain. Relius' 214B looks like it recovers really quickly.

Looking back it does seem he was a little slow on the input, so it may be a little hard to judge, although I doubt getting out is easier from a meaty 214B. Delyuku only managed to catch Nisi on block once @ 3:19

Apologies btw. I was referring to 5C - j.A/B, but if [w]66D may not be able to catch in time, I doubt the 5C will.

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Thank you, Kiba. I'm a little sad that I can't contribute now; I don't have Extend and can't test things. Useful for the people that do have it though.

I don't think I've ever seen someone do [h]2A > 5D > [w]5A as a way of slipping into wolf form for pressure before. He actually just seems to like flipping inbetween human and wolf randomly; there were a couple points where he'd do [w]j.A > land 5D > [h]2A for pressure, despite having near full wolf meter, just to jump cancel into j.D > 3C > j.A. I personally can't figure out the logic behind it.

Yeah, it's a good tool I use to fool some people lol, more people should try (w) j.B > 5d > stuff

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Thank you, Kiba. I'm a little sad that I can't contribute now; I don't have Extend and can't test things. Useful for the people that do have it though.

I don't think I've ever seen someone do [h]2A > 5D > [w]5A as a way of slipping into wolf form for pressure before. He actually just seems to like flipping inbetween human and wolf randomly; there were a couple points where he'd do [w]j.A > land 5D > [h]2A for pressure, despite having near full wolf meter, just to jump cancel into j.D > 3C > j.A. I personally can't figure out the logic behind it.

HAHA wow this is a perfect example of how retarded Valk is you can tell this guy was pressing buttons with his random 5As and lucky 6Cs misuse of Wulf meter and terrible blocking as you said he was just being random

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Valkenhayn

Reward Assessment: S+ Rank - Extremely high damage output and heat gain on many confirms. Many combos often leave the opponent in the corner, which often can lead to another high damage combo on the next hit.

Neutral Viability: S+ Rank - Human mode has some fairly usable normals at mid-long range, but as a Wolf, many opponents have difficulty performing even basic movement options safely when being watched by Valkenhayn. Extremely high mobility and proper anti-airs in both forms greatly aids Valkenhayn's neutral game. A mistake in neutral will immediately allow Valkenhayn to land a hit or force an opponent to block an extremely fast mixup.

Offensive Viability: A+ Rank - Extremely powerful mixup options and good knockdown setups in the corner, but limited blockstring potential stifles the character's ability to have overwhelming offense at all times. All mixup options also force Valkenhayn to guess somewhat, though the guess is largely in his favor.

Defensive Viability: B+ Rank - Possess one of the most powerful backsteps in the game. While not normally good enough to receive a B+ Rank on its own, the addition of instant barrier allows Valkenhayn to escape back to neutral (where he is excellent) easier than other characters. His guard point is not very strong, but allows him to beat certain offensive tools on reaction.

Versatility: B Rank

Complexity: A Rank

Current Assessment: S Rank - Valkenhayn is a technical, high damage character that takes good situation recognition to play.

I'll just leave this here.

If you want to politely argue with this, do so in the BBCS Extend Teir List Thread, not here.

I would like to say though I agree with this, especially the Current Assesment, emphasis on "good situtation recognition" here.

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I agree with it for the most part. Though I do wonder why he specifically mentions IB Barrier as a defensive option for Valk only. I'll have to put more thought into using his backstep as an option for escaping pressure too; I always thought of it as a step above most of the casts', but not amazing, so I might be underestimating it.

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I agree with it for the most part. Though I do wonder why he specifically mentions IB Barrier as a defensive option for Valk only. I'll have to put more thought into using his backstep as an option for escaping pressure too; I always thought of it as a step above most of the casts', but not amazing, so I might be underestimating it.

Valkenhayn's backstep rivals Tager's imo.

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I would agree in CS1, it didn't feel the same afterward.

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Yeah in CS1, Valk had probably the best backdash in the game. Had invincibility like Tager's, but recovered way faster as it was nearly impossible to punish it. In CS2/EX, its about the same as Ragna's it feels like. Kinda invincible, but doesn't do you a lot of good most of the time:v:

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Looking at the system data, Valk's human backdash has the same 5 frames of invincibility as the majority of the cast. On the other hand, it's the fastest recovering backdash in the game at 16 frames, the next fastest are Noel and Taokaka tied at 18 frames and everyone else is 20+.

While the recovery seems like it'd allow you to punish something you normally wouldn't, 5 frames isn't a very large window to invul through something, especially if you consider that basically everything that takes more than 16 frames to recover has 3+ active frames.

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The short recovery means a lot. It makes it REALLY hard to punish midscreen. Even in the corner it's useful in some situations, i.e. the recovery is shorter than most throw whiff animations, which is why you see a lot of Valks do backdash > throw in the corner against throw attempts.

p.s. Wolf backdash is dumb. Wolf backdash cancelled into Rasen Wolf = a stupid amount of invin frames.

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Does anyone have any info on the ender Joker does in the following vid around 6:05. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFvqtTyvT6I

It's a variation of his safe jump setup.

Basically, its a safe jump that catches rolls(JB) or leads to a human high/low mixup.(JB/2B)

The drawback is it's big cost and it requires a good amount of conditioning for best results.

(You want them to emergency tech.Or roll/DP.)

Here is what I remember:

*The most important part is doing w[JB>1/2/3c~c>JB] for maximum stability.

W[5c~c>JB] can work,but its unreliable.

*I recall that the timing to transform back is also somewhat important.

Do it too early and you won't have enough momentum to catch them with JB in time.

Do it too late and and your JB won't hit them.

*As I mentioned above,you can skip the JB and go for a 2B low mixup instead.

This does not punish rolls,though.

You can adjust the setup and make it work,but I don't remember the details.

*If the JB actually catches a roll,you'll switch sides.

Something like JB>2C>jc~D[JAA>236A>1C/3C~D]>2C>6C should be optimal.

*Similiar to his first safe jump setup,you can use JC instead of JB.

The JC version does not catch rolls in this one,but its usually the prefered choice on block or ground hit.

*You can choose to do wolf stuff instead of transforming back to human if you have enough bar.

I think you can actually do 7C>(land)w5A to catch rolls or possibly reset the combo counter if they don't tech.

Not sure.

This stuff costs a lot of bar and is probably not worth it.

*As long as you actually cancel the wJB with w7C (instead of jump canceling the JB first) you will have

one air movement option left to play around with.

I can only think of 3 scenarios off the top of my head where this could be useful.

Both safe jump setups lose against Tager's GETB.

You could use your remaining air movement option to bait it via airdash/double jump after the 7C~D.

Other then that,you could backdash to prevent rc's via spacing,if a reversal is coming.

Or you could do JB>[jc~D>j3C>JA/5A/command grab],if you have enough bar.

I'm probably missing more stuff,but this is all I can remember.

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Wow.

I am not going to let this valuable information go to waste, lol. Thanks for that input!

I should probably be practicing more Joker techniques to incorporate into my gameplay. I lack creativeness. :v:

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Is there any info on jokers tager ender? (Sturm 6b whiff)

I know he doesn't use his usual ender cause of Getb (which I learned about the hard way :(), so I'm curious as to what are the benefits of his sturm ender.

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