Zappa vs Axl

[aaronyu2]

Yesterday, I went down to Portland for the random select tourney, although my keyboard adapter broke during casuals the morning of the tourney so I ended up not registering. Anyways, before my adapter broke, I was playing against the Axl player, Digital Watches. I need some help against him because Axl throwing out random mid/low pokes almost always stops my rush down. As naked Zappa is feels the only thing I have that stands a chance is a rush down summon with forward momentum. As sword I have nothing if I can't get close :/ and dog gets eaten really easily by that low poke axl has with the multiple hit green animation. Ghost was ok because I can actually you know, throw upward ghost and then a forward ghost frc to get in. Raoh is useless if I'm not close when I get him out :/ Also, when Axl does get in close and I mess up I eat that corner loop Axl for... lots of damage. I think summon is really good against Axl's 6HS overhead, but that's only if he decides to come to me. Any Axl match up tips would be appreciated.

[Chomite]

I have a match of Korean zappa player raping axl...I'm uploading it right now but check it out.

[lymevirus]

axls hard for most of the board...FD IAD is the best way to force axl to come to YOU, youll soke up his pokes, force a war of attrition and the fact that he can easily eat the dog can actually help you get in...if the dog is being eaten IAD behind it. besides that, do all you can to force the axl to come to you, because while he may be annoying, if hes not doing damage, he still wont win...

[Phoenix_Magnion]

Why hello there. This is 'the other other Alex'. I was actually here to post pretty much the same thing. XD; It certainly doesn't help that there aren't many other Axl players. D:

[aaronyu2]

Why hello there. This is 'the other other Alex'. I was actually here to post pretty much the same thing. XD;

It certainly doesn't help that there aren't many other Axl players. D:

oh hi Alex XD yeah, we've got to figure out ways to beat Digital Watches xP

so~~ I was wondering how well the 5K does against axl? like, would I be able to somehow poke his chain? I think his chain is also a hitbox XD

[Zoogstin]

go in training mode and test it out. =)

[Oiboi]

Firstly, we have a matchup thread; this should probably be there. Secondly, You just have to play safe and get in close range to mess up Axl. Use P Toss with the ghosts to break his pressure to get close, or go for counter hits with the dog. The sword is difficult to use to get in (Axl can just poke zappa). But, Axl's defense isn't too good, and he's relatively easy to combo, so play it safe and get in his face. I can't remember, but I believe the summon will counterhit most of his pokes. Obviously, get Raou and throw DA's at him alot (since the only thing he can do to projectiles is try to counter them) until you get hit. Really, I'd say this fight is about evenly matched; Zappa's invul frames will help to get close, but Axl has a lot of tricks to keep his pressure going, so it just comes down to how good the players.

[lymevirus]

yeah, zappas summon most likely will connect with axls pokes...also {as im sure you know} theres a funny 'momentum glitch'{for lack of the right term} with the summon: you can sort of dash break with it, yet maintain momentum for a distance...dash~236P

[aaronyu2]

I heard that Axl's best Zappa summon match up is against Raoh. Axl can poke Raoh out of darkness anthem :x

[Oiboi]

lymvirus: Not exactly a glitch, nearly every move in the game will keep the characters forward momentum; Zappa just has a very long slow down time, allowing him to summon through quite a lot of stuff (Say your dashing at axl and he tries to do 63214S, You can do summon counter and keep moving away into a safe distance). This works in certain other situations as well, like countering a Greed Sever (harder nowadays, the range wasn't so huge back in the day), Bandit Bringer, etc. In Slash, you could go under Grave Digger and summon, though I don't know the validity of this in AC anymore. aaronyu2: Not at full length. If your within range of his pokes, You can use most of Raoh's moves to punish him from block, or try for a clash/counter with Edguy. Darkness Anthem reaches almost all the way to the other edge of the screen; if they're doing an attack or trying to rush in, they'll get hit/blocked.

[Zeero]

in the vid that chomite posted with axl vs zappa i saw axl do 46s through raoh's darkness anthem and hit him o.O but the 46s became 2 hit (the darkness anthem went straight through axl) i guess 1 hit nullifies raoh's darkness anthem?

[Chomite]

axl's 46s is considered projectile...is it not? (idk)

[Dangief]

Yes, green chain is a three hit projectile. It always has been. Axl is probably Zappa's worst matchup (only Eddie comes to mind as being as bad) because of the range. As was stated, you have to play very careful and try to out guess his pokes to get in his face. You can run under 5P (though I can't imagine why any Axl would use that in this match) jS (anticipation needed though) IAD over 2P & 2H DO NOT IAD OVER GREEN CHAIN UNLESS YOU PREDICT EARLY! He'll probably be able to tag you with the followup on reaction. You're better off just FDing it. At least Then you're still neutral unless he's feeling stupid and runs up after an FRC. To the best of my kowledge 5K doesn't beat Axl's 2HS because the hitbox is too big (Zappa isn't as invinicible as you think in that move.... =( ). Best advice was already given. He can't win if he isn't doing damage. Ghosts are your friends. Dog is OK. Sword is failure summon. Raoh is OK once you get in, but can be tricky to do so (please don't run in blind... you'll make all Zappa players cry).

[Zeero]

oh any 1 hit projectile will nullify raoh's darkness anthem when it gets shot out??? wow i never knew that... so a Ky can technically shoot a 236hs frc it and run in after it and completely go through the darkness anthem??

[Digital Watches]

Hm... I actually disagree with Dangief on Raou. Every Zappa I've played, including Rudy, who kicked my ass in GG casuals at Evo, has had absolutely no way to keep pressure or gain it as Raou. If you can do those wacky summon RC into raou combo things, feel free, but unless you've already got a guarunteed hit, Axl can beat out Raou without breaking a sweat, unless he doesn't know how to block. And Dangief is partly right on Axl's 5P: No Axl in his right mind would use it against grounded Zappa... except on reaction. Zappa's standing hitbox ducks it, but throwing a ghost, for example, puts him in a perfect position to get hit by 5P, stuffing the ghost before it gets out, and getting rid of Axl's least favorite summon to deal with (Triplets).

[HellSap]

Heya other Alex! Nice quote... stealing my thunder... DA also hits twice when sitting there, and once when shot for a total of 3 hits. Since this is a big how to play against a specific NW axl thread - I'll put in my two cents. I agree with Dangief, cause I still manage to hit DW most of the time with raoh and win. DA can be outpoked with 5p, but thats it, and you can last edguy it, the mixup at that range isnt that bad cause axl cant do too much from max range. Just FD a lot more when you're jumping over him, rarely does 2s at the right time, and almost never ever does 6k. Once you learn the range on his crossover and know when to time attacks on the drop attack you're golden. Just takes some time to learn them and you'll stop getting hit for free. 5k rocks your socks off cause 2k is his favorite move (but I see a lot more 2h nowadays). And remember, DW has a Yomi level of 0. Just make sure to win the war of attrition. green chain up followup when FDed puts him at a disadvantage and lets you get in... take advantage of tick throws, duh. sword is still (edit) usable against axl, cause after swipe FRC, you can run in before axl can throw out any of his slower pokes. and the allmighty dp invuns through almost everything. You just need meter to be safe, but if you're running forward enough you'll not have as many problems.

[Digital Watches]

While it's certainly true that myself and probably everyone have lapses of judgement, it's not good advice in this matchup in general to say that reactionary 5P can reliably be uppercutted, since it'll usually hit the DA before the move can get out. I agree on the tickthrows thing, though, as any and all tickthrow mixup is a very uncomfortable situation for a character with 6F+ normals and a 4F jump. I don't know where you're getting the sword thing, though

[Oiboi]

I personally feel that Dizzy may be Zappa's worst matchup, actually o_O Eddie can get countersummoned rather easily if your intelligent, but Dizzy can lock Zappa down better than anyone. Also, Potemkin is annoying just because of his grab ranges (makes it hard for Zappa to do as he pleases).

[Zoogstin]

Actually Zappa vs Dizzy more 50-50ish because both of them can lock each other down so well. Dizzy has get rushdown in general but Zappa does well with lock down because of his summons along with Dizzy's long start up time for most of her specials. And yeah Potemkin does suck. But this belongs in the matchup thread. The ghosts in the end are the only good summon against Axl period. Every other summon sucks unless you can make it inside. Roah gets shut down, the sword gets shutdown, and Axl's multiple hit crap makes the dogs hit absorbtion useless. =/ They are of course decent if you can get inside.

[kanom]

potemkin ,i hate that char,and everytime one of my friends pick him i just wait to have dog and i rape him with the dog,combine dog,far slash,air dash,and air grab.... pot seems hopeless anyways dizzy's weak point is her startup slowwww startup,haven't played against axl in Ac but back in slash he was troublesome.i think we should post each of his moves and how to counter them, like axl's 5p=summon....etc

[Oiboi]

Zoogstin: Yeah, this should be in the matchup thread lol. Kanom: Pot has aerial pot buster now... I don't know why they thought that was a good idea...

[kanom]

well he can air-pot buster only when he's got tention yeah why they thaught that was a good idea? i still thnk zappa's air throw is a nice one!!

[Dangief]

Hey, you guys are talking to a Pot player (as all people named Dan seem to be...). I started with PoChop and still use him as my backup to this day because he's so easy to use =). You think I got the name danGIEF from not going straight for the guys with command throws? But anyways.... feel free to discuss any matchup, I'll just rename the thread if this one becomes a better source of info that the older ones. And DW, you're right about Raoh. He actually isn't THAT big of an advantage vs Axl because it is still pretty easy to keep Raoh away. But he does have the threat of big damage going for him, and half the time I just try to use his super to do some damage (or set up the unblockable DA that never seems to work. But that's more because I suck. Stay in school!

[kanom]

dangief you helped me a lot into learning zappa back in reload i always respect you.the only problem is now i know you use potemkin

[Phrekwenci]

i still thnk zappa's air throw is a nice one!!

I hate his air-throw to be honest. Needs more wall bounce.