[CS1-CSE] Mu-12 Critique and Self-Improvement Thread

[BenignPacifist]

That would be great, thanks alot. How long from now will you be expecting me?

EDIT: I'm xbl by the way.

[NickExtreme1]

That would be great, thanks alot. How long from now will you be expecting me?

EDIT: I'm xbl by the way.

I'll be done my college work around 8:00-8:30 PM, so around 8:45 ish? XD

[BenignPacifist]

That works for me.

[Zeromus_X]

Some matches from the last Danisen session:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6I_WB7gkMc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6I_WB7gkMc#t=3m25s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6I_WB7gkMc#t=7m38s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sATRWkzmNM#t=7m26s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkzsxUHIF-M

I need lots of help vs Tao and Bang (and not sucking in general would be nice to), these two matchups are rage-inducing. I make a lot of executional mistakes like trying to 6D 236D, and just getting 236D (durr), or trying to DP and getting 6C (super DURR), if you were wondering what those were.

[C0R]

Only watched the Tao vids, but...

Good job on lining up Habaya! Excellent stein formations + 236D stuffed Tao's approach like a boss for the most part. Very strong Oki pressure against such a mobile character is impressive to say the least.

It seems you had trouble landing on Tao, more or less. He was really good about keeping low profile with crawl, so your j.C whiffed pretty much every time, though it doesn't have landing recovery it still puts you in a bad spot, even though Tao lacks a strong antiair. Your spacing game was strong enough that I think you didn't need the jump-ins.

Not sure what the plan was on whiffed ground normals > HexaEdge, but I think you knew that one.

Overall, really, really good zoning complimented by very strong oki. But once Tao was in, there was no respect. I would recommend (I hate saying this, makes me feel like a complete scrub) more use of 623C, along with a more honed normal game. That's really the only thing I can call you out on.

[TD]

bangs 5a beats everything. l honestly have no idea how to win against him. l agree it's just so silly to have so much priority. Just oki him to death? :/

[NickExtreme1]

Best meant for the match-up thread , but I typically start attack strings with 2A against Bang if he gets in close range.

[4Corners]

Guize, you can has halp my terrible Mu, plz?

I'll try to record some matches at the gathering this weekend, but I'd like to hop online with someone on XBL before then, if possible.

[Charby]

Wow nice vids zero, i realy liked the 2B>5B>2D>AirGrab. in the corner

And against Tao you should avoid the falling JC when she is on the ground , she can easily crouch to avoid it.

[NickExtreme1]

Guize, you can has halp my terrible Mu, plz?

I'll try to record some matches at the gathering this weekend, but I'd like to hop online with someone on XBL before then, if possible.

I'll be happy to go at it with you tonight if possible, I will be up past mdnight tonight, so plenty of time to be had.

A lot of people have been asking for Mu mirrors / match-ups recently, so I'll set-up a lobby for those people tonight.

People I already have in mind:

Vicious176 (<--- GamerTag?)

BenignPacifist

IzzyInfamous

Two more for a full lobby, hopefully either FlyingVe and/or Zeromus_X can participate too? I'll record all matches.

[Silfer]

-Nvm, xbox live onry XD

[pulsr]

None of you guys apparently use j.b... thats a bad sign.

[Zeromus_X]

What are the best times to use jB?

[C0R]

What are the best times to use jB?

Crossunder 2d > Crossover > j.B

Jumpin Crouching

The situation I use it the most is when...

People jump in and barrier to bait antiair

I jump up to airthrow

They're like Ohshit he's gonna throw me /mash a/b normal

J.B lands a CH > Extension

None of you guys apparently use j.b... thats a bad sign.

I love j.B, but I don't have capture equipment, sad times.

[Aginor]

Off topic: I moved a bunch of posts that were not even related to any critique/self-improvement discussion to the general discussion thread.

[Vicious176]

I'll be happy to go at it with you tonight if possible, I will be up past mdnight tonight, so plenty of time to be had.

A lot of people have been asking for Mu mirrors / match-ups recently, so I'll set-up a lobby for those people tonight.

People I already have in mind:

Vicious176 (<--- GamerTag?)

BenignPacifist

IzzyInfamous

Two more for a full lobby, hopefully either FlyingVe and/or Zeromus_X can participate too? I'll record all matches.

looks like I missed this by a couple days but sounds like an awesome idea. My dog got to my headset though so right now its nothing but raw wires, so when I get a new one I'll be able to talk and ask questions and what not.

[Zeromus_X]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1hSWDN_XKQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZjm_Z0XFA8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdZYWb0alHg

Shockna asked me to record some matches to post up for him, so...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1hSWDN_XKQ

0:22- Nice job punishing his mash with 2C, do 63214C (charged), combo if you can confirm or just do 5C 6C oki. Imo, unless it's not possible or you'll get a lot of damage, you should almost always go for 6C oki.

0:25- jC CH near the ground can go right into dash 2A, 2B, 3C or 2B, 3C, combo. Also after knocking him away with SoD, you jumped into the air to set up steins- this leaves you open, and you don't get to set up as many steins. Try doing something like one or two steins, and then JC'ing them to get away, approach, or set up more steins if you must.

0:50- Try not to summon steins so close to Hazama (or well any character); it's very dangerous.

0:57- Blocked 6C should always cancel into stein -> jump away or SoD if you're far enough away; it has horrendous recovery.

1:00- CH jC so close to the ground can go into 5C 6C oki, also 6B won't combo into j2C CH if you're not close enough to the ground. In that case, do 6A, combo or 5C, combo instead.

1:43 - jC isn't so good after teching here (people can just jA or air grab you out of it; best to just block or try and airdash away)

1:47- 6C will miss from that close after CH 5C, just go into 3C, 2B, 6C whatever instead.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZjm_Z0XFA8

0:41- 6C fatal combo can be tempting, but it's not a good idea at round start, 6C whiff =

0:45- If he tries to mash 3C to get under your jC (?) j2C into CH combo.

0:55-1:07 - Don't try to autopilot jump away so much, can get caught by the snakes. Keep your other options in mind, you can super jump in different directions, 5C or 6C him if he's close enough, backdash or dash and barrier break, or just blocking if you want to be safe. Also NEVER roll away against Hazama, it's never a good idea, especially against a good one.

1:13- Don't be quick to summon steins after a burst; green burst is somewhat disadvantageous. Though your friend missed his attack, most characters can just rush right in and hit you before you can do anything.

1:16- can do 214D with that stein to get a little extra damage/heat gain and go into 5C 6C oki instead of SoD.

1:22- from that high up, 214D explosion can be followed up with jC j2C oki.

1:50: 236D CH could've been followed up by 5C, 2C, HJC jB jC j2C oki, maybe 6C would've hit from that distance too.

1:53 - Don't forget to summon a stein before SoD; can't go wrong with a free stein. Personally I forgo SoD most of the time to go into 6C oki unless it'll kill them.

1:55 - Nice setup, 6D 236A or D would've been better so he can't get in so easy. Two or more steins are great for oki, but for zoning, just one + 236D and A is fine. Also stop autopilot rolling/jumping away =(

2:14 - Try to confirm the 2B instead of pressing the buttons right after another; it sucks when 6C whiffs. Lag can really mess this up and I know how annoying this can be.

2:20 - If he just mashes A like that, 5C CH 6C oki. Nice zoning setup with 2D 6D 236D, time to steal that. You could've gone with 6D, more zoning instead of 6C after, though I guess you were trying to punish him mashing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdZYWb0alHg

0:27 - nice airdash and air throw, don't be afraid to keep doing that until they stop autopilot jumping. After an airthrow, I recommend doing 2B. If they roll, or don't tech, you'll catch them for 5C 6C into oki. If they do tech, you're still at advantage so you can always block, get away, or continue attacking.

0:37 - again, do dash 2A, 2b, 3C or 2b, 3C into combo after a ground CH jC.

0:47 - charged steins have more recovery, so best to JC them and get away unless they're afraid (if they try to rush in, they get a fat laser to the face).

0:50 - don't roll away from Hazama

1:00 - remember you can airdash away after a (dropped) aircombo like that, you don't always have to fall and jC.

to 1:30 - space yourself better, it's too easy to get CH by Hazama if you summon steins like that. Again, 6D 236D or A is enough to zone at that range while still giving them a risk if they try to approach recklessly.

1:40 - better to go into 6C oki again

1:46 - can go into 6B 6A j2C dash 2B etc combo for bigger damage + oki after explosion

1:50 - again, just go into 6C oki, it's more valuable than the small damage from SoD.

1:53 - might've been able to dash in to 2B 3C etc from the laser's hitstun, or at least just set up more steins.

2:00 - jC isn't so great directly above them, try jB instead

2:10 - could've done stein into either super to finish it right there instead of SoD.

2:15 - probably tried to 6D 632146D? with so little health left on him, you could've just set up a D-wall with 236A and pals to finish him off, but well...he didn't block the single laser lol.

After that, pretty much echo the rest of this stuff, just work on spacing/being safer/just blocking, hit confirms, better combos/oki and punishing the silly stuff your friend is doing.

General tips:

Tbh, your friend mashes like CRAZY (which it looked like you were aware). He would mash C in the air and every time he got to the ground he would do 3C; try to poke him with jC or 5C and go into 6C > fun or just keep j2C'ing him. At the beginning of almost every round and after every blockstring he would jump back to use a snake; run up, jump, and air throw, jA pressure or jC him. He would come in on a blocked snake with no fear; DP or 5A/6A until he starts baiting it, a snake does not equal free entry. If he's already inside and attack, just block since your friend didn't really use any mixups. It looked like you were trying to DP or anti-air him too late, or messed up the buffer, which caused you to get CH a lot of times.

Against Hazama in particular, try not to set up any steins unless you're fullscreen or you knocked him away or have a knockdown. 5D 6D 236A 236D etc, 6D 236D xD 236A etc, and 6D 236A xD 236D etc are pretty good to zone him, since 236A can destroy the chains and the 236D can hit him if he still thinks he can fly towards you. As a general tip, it's more effective to control the horizontal space on the ground with 5D, 6D, and 236D in order to force them to block or jump. NEVER summon stiens close up to the opponent, midrange can also be a risk. And never forget that you can just jump cancel steins and then go back to spacing if it's dangerous, you don't have to commit to special cancelling them all the time. Oh yeah, and remember he has no real reversal before 50 meter, so he's free to pressure on wakeup with 2A or 2B (,6A...combo) to catch rolling. Mu is very fast and has no problem just running up to him.

This is all I have for now, the others can probably give better advice.

[Shockna]

Just as a note, the 6C whiffs at the beginning of those rounds were me trying to do the air throw I managed the final video. >_>

For some reason the B+C came out a bit too fast for the jump startup.

[pulsr]

Crossunder 2d > Crossover > j.B

Jumpin Crouching

The situation I use it the most is when...

People jump in and barrier to bait antiair

I jump up to airthrow

They're like Ohshit he's gonna throw me /mash a/b normal

J.B lands a CH > Extension

I love j.B, but I don't have capture equipment, sad times.

Uhh, I was going to say when... you know... Jump in? or fall on an opponent? kind of like whenever you actually have the objective of hitting your opponent lol

Shockna, to me, it looks like you might be lacking a bit of fundamentals. Everything looked a bit rush. It almost looked like your master plan was just to get a 236D out there and didn't take into consideration how or where it is going to bounce. I saw a bit of 6D 5D placements which is pretty poor for a 236D because you ultimately want to have the laser out for as long as possible and as quickly as possible. Hence, 5D -> 6D is far superior. It'll have to travel all that distance to 6D back to 5D back to the opponent. Doing 5D -> 6D means basically lose out on a third bounce.

Also, going so quickly into 236D means you aren't even giving the steins a chancto shoot, and those little moments actually add some chaos to characters like Hazama who have a bit of difficulty trying to avoid the steins.

My head hurts but in summary calm down and think about what you are trying to accomplish with each stein you place.

You

[Aginor]

Ok so I watched all of them. I'm too lazy to point out every single little mistake you did but....here are the general things I've found.

1. You always tend to burst in the same place. Within the first few hits. It's good since most people don't expect it but if you do it too often, the better players will start baiting it.

2. Stop trying to use 6c as a poke against haz. That move is too slow and he moves too fast. Only use it when you're going to punish something.

3. You can set up steins against haz. If you're all the way across the screen you can summon 2 since his chains don't go all the way across the screen. If you're at mid-range you can summon 1 but it's risky because of the chains. Though! If you're close enough, his chain won't give that much hitstun so even if he hit you, you can probably still DP. The amount of hitstun on his chains is distance dependent. Problem I saw was that you try to keep summoning 2 steins regardless of where you were in relation to him.

4. Any haz that knows what he's doing should just stand back and chain you all day until he lands a hit. Hit leads into mix up.

5. Seems like you're mashing the C button WAY too much. Whiffing 2c is pretty bad.

6. Normally you probably don't want to use 236d or 214d as much due to all the start up and all haz has to do to counter that is chain you. You could use it when the momentum of the match is in your favor.

7. You don't always need 2 steins on the field. It's more about placement rather than numbers.

8. Not blocking jayoku houtenjins.

9. Use 5a to stop him from approaching you with chains if you bock his chain.

10. Backdashing leaves you vulnerable to chains.

Against haz, only safe places you can really exploit him is if you're all the way across the screen from him or if you're just within range so that his chains don't hit you with a ton of hitstun. At that range, your normals will beat his normals with range(I would think, unless Mu extends her hitbox). Within mid range, stick to j.C and 5C. Use more A and B moves too.

[C0R]

I'd like to restate this, because it's very applicable against Hazama in general, and the advice that I always found the most useful.

9. Use 5a to stop him from approaching you with chains if you bock his chain.

his chains don't hit you with a ton of hitstun. At that range, your normals will beat his normals with range

Use more A and B moves

I find 2A and 5A on pretty much every character stuffs blocked chain approaches universally, though the Hazama player really shouldn't be diving in on a blocked chain.

Jump in?

Jumpin

I guess I didn't emphasize it enough, my bad.

[MainG_Jago]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-P7vK11mv1U

my matches are 0:00, 6:15 9:57

i recently change my play style or a least i do according to character

this my Bang n Litchi only Day for the Daisen since the only people who could fight me were Zeth07 and LK(SazukaJanJan)

i think i let his patients n sometimes trollin get to me lol this is why i changed my play style

im sure i need lots of improvement to turn my RagMu back to a Mu-12 so Release the Cracken

[MainG_Jago]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_2hMPMOfdQ

i won but i think i never should have let it get that close to losing lol

[SolarMisae]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stYsRAqMfqE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPff5zA9wqI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p06pcSBcrog

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7c3IoV5pOw

Okay so. I'm very hesitant at posting these, as I'm very bad when it comes to taking criticism. I decided though that if I wanna improve I gotta take the hits, since I probably can't see all of my mistakes on my own, and I know it's helpful, not hurtful. So I guess, do your worst and completely pick these matches apart.

One thing to note though are my frequently whiffed 2Bs. This however isn't actually normal for me, I swear. ^^;; Netplay isn't something I do frequently (or ever...really), and even a teeny bit of lag messes me up. It's also good to note that these matches are the first time I've actually ever fought anyone seriously since settling on Mu as my main. For awhile now my only experience with Mu has been practicing setups and combo execution in training mode. >.<; (I lack offline comp and don't like netplay…so ehhh… orz)

The other matches that are up on my channel are not long after I had just picked her up and are not good examples of my actual gameplay. Please ignore them…they're awful. o.<

Stuff I'm aware of after watching these replays…. I've got a nasty habit of abusing j.2C, and use it raw far too often. My stein placement is pretty bad, and I get far too greedy and throw out 3C too much. I rush senselessly without stein cover a lot, and I mash DP instead of actually looking for openings to use it a lot of times. My pressure strings are also pretty awful.

I also IAD a lot, which I know is bad to do too much. I forget about barrier guarding and CAs, and always forget to pay attention to my guard primers until I end up getting crushed…I also burst pretty badly.

tl;dr: Depite messing with this game for a few months now, I have only just started seriously playing it recently, so I need any and all the help and advice I can get. Since BB is my first fighting game, I have a long way too go before I get anywhere...

[Grey]

Just watched the first couple, but I think you can work on your hit confirming. There were a few times where you would land a 3C and was in range for 2B > 5C > 6C pickup into oki but just when for a stein and a SoD, and there were times when you land a 3C in the corner and could have went for a corner loop but just placed a few steins instead. Also I think in the first vid in a round near the beginning you could have went for the win if you went for laser super after 6C but just went for stein oki instead.

EDIT: last vid with Tager, you went for a laser with only 1 or a few stein in between you and Tager a couple of times, which is pretty bad because that's just ends up shooting a single laser at Tager ... might as well just send out another stein. Also, at the end of vid, watch out for this Spark Bolt when he has meter. He could have shot it at you when you were spamming steins much earlier instead of just blocking.