[CPEX] Hakumen Gameplay Discussion

[mAc Chaos]

Just general nerfs to rein back some of his power while keeping his overall design the same.

As for the ground bounce from airthrow, it depends. I would guess that they actually made the bounce far enough that you can't combo... but we'll see. Might just need to do OD off the 2nd hit rather than the 1st, but that seems like a pointless change if they are trying to attack airthrow into OD stuff.

[Errol]

Just general nerfs to rein back some of his power while keeping his overall design the same.

As for the ground bounce from airthrow, it depends. I would guess that they actually made the bounce far enough that you can't combo... but we'll see. Might just need to do OD off the 2nd hit rather than the 1st, but that seems like a pointless change if they are trying to attack airthrow into OD stuff.

IIRC, second hit would have 55% proration, so that should cut damage down from 10k to 6500, something like that. that alone could be enough. but maybe they'll make it so you don't have enough flex to go for a combo immediately after the 2nd hit and have to do something, another move, causing more proration, instead.

[BlackYakuzu94]

They can tech out of the 2nd hit when they hit the ground because 5C is too slow, soooo...I dunno what you'd have to use to follow up a second hit.

[Moblin]

I assume the new airthrow combo will work like CH Agito does. AT > j.B > land 5c. If you want to OD from an airthrow, just rapid cancel it then.

My question is why would you ever want to Agito after j.D? You get almost 3k meterless from a regular j.D.

Agito would just rocket them down and net you far less damage. Unless you're sure it was a counter hit, I guess - and even then the average combo would still do about 3k or less.

edit: oh god, unless they gave that version of Agito a massive proration bonus. That would be hysterical.

[mAc Chaos]

Couldn't you just OD after the 5C in that combo?

[Spark]

I assume the new airthrow combo will work like CH Agito does. AT > j.B > land 5c. If you want to OD from an airthrow, just rapid cancel it then.

My question is why would you ever want to Agito after j.D? You get almost 3k meterless from a regular j.D.

Agito would just rocket them down and net you far less damage. Unless you're sure it was a counter hit, I guess - and even then the average combo would still do about 3k or less.

edit: oh god, unless they gave that version of Agito a massive proration bonus. That would be hysterical.

It probably works the same way as ground counter > Enma. So it might Fatal and have a similar starting P1.

[Sophisticat]

I'm thinking of j.D -> Fatal Agito -> Hotaru -> etc. as a thing.

[dioxideUniversa]

So they're really recommending we make the most out of our Overdrives instead of being lazy and not Rapid Canceling Air Throw. Got it.

i know right? as if he doesn't already do that with ground throw

overall they seem like weird & fairly lazy changes to me, given that there are things wrong with the character at this point besides all the stuff they 'nerfed'

magatama change does not seem good for what they were trying to approach depending on how severe it is. more than some of his OD and corner combos, messes with his midscreen BnBs too

feels like they do not know what they want with this character

[BladeOfJustice7]

So new changes are in:

Hakumen

- Air Throw – Can no longer cancel the first hit into Overdrive. The second hit now ground bounces

- Magatama Gauge – Decreases the rate that the gauge increases while Hakumen is midair. (Includes during Overdrive)

- 6D – Increased the forward movement greatly, now has less recovery when it misses

- Jump D – Can now be canceled into Agito immediately with only the press of an A button

- Agito – Increased hitstop and recovery, is now worse on block

While I agree with all the changes, I don't feel like he changed all that much. They basically made it harder to confirm OD while toning down dmg via meter gain nerf.

Was also hoping we'd get something extra, but it doesn't seem to be the case. They didn't do much beyond "fixing" him. Sucks.

Lol well I was hoping the changes could make me play this character/game again...

It was a nice thought while it lasted, maybe seeing him in action will change my mind *runs back to the Terumi boards*

[BlackYakuzu94]

I wasn't really expecting any major changes aside from his OD honestly; this patch seems more focused on the console characters more than anything.

Ahh well, back to Kagura.

[BladeOfJustice7]

Ahh well, back to Kagura.

Lol.

All they had to do was make 6d frame 1, and I might've played more. Oh well...

[OmnixTSC]

We pretty much have to be a little more conscious of our resources with these changes. I actually think 6D buff might be somewhat relevant, though I'll just wait and see on that one. As for j.D > Agito, it'll probably work like either FC Agito or Mugen Agito (which could be interesting).

I'm actually fine with these changes, though I really wish we had gotten a few more options at the cost of average damage.

[BlackYakuzu94]

Lol.

All they had to do was make 6d frame 1, and I might've played more. Oh well...

They could at least make it as fast as 5D.

[Moblin]

Wondering how much the meter change will nerf OD combos. A lot of my OD combos barely work, as I usually just barely get the Mags for the staple zantetsu or crush trigger as it is needed in the combo.

If the meter gain is reduced then we're not going to get easy OD combos with low star counts anymore. I'm betting Haku will need to have plenty of stars to work with at the start of OD for the combo to do acceptable OD damage.

In this current version, I really like the fact that 8k is guaranteed if I can just land Tsubaki > Hotaru with just the 5 required stars and OD. With slower meter gain this might not be possible after the patch.

[mAc Chaos]

Joke's on you ArcSys, I don't even use OD!

> Hakumen removed from game

[Moblin]

If worse comes to worst and Hakumen keeps going down the road of OD Overbearance, I will turtle very game until I have 8 stars, and play solely on Mugen combos.

I think Fatal Counter Agito sounds hilarious though. Hakumens land a lot of j.D as it is.

[SansProtocol]

Lol.

All they had to do was make 6d frame 1, and I might've played more. Oh well...

That would have been too good, with the FC Enma follow-up in this game now.

[Schneider-X]

Most big OD combos start with you on the ground anyways so that won't affect it too much. It may affect what we can do off of tsubaki/Hotaru OD combos since we're in the air for quite a bit with those at the start.

[kirbster]

Lol.

All they had to do was make 6d frame 1, and I might've played more. Oh well...

It's not like Hakumen doesn't have yukikaze available more than half the time lol.

[mAc Chaos]

That would have been too good, with the FC Enma follow-up in this game now.

But it's not too good off 2D or 5D? Ehhhh.

Enma followup is stupid anyway.

Bah, humbug. etc

[SansProtocol]

But it's not too good off 2D or 5D? Ehhhh.

Enma followup is stupid anyway.

Bah, humbug. etc

Alright, then explain why 6D would be great with 1 frame start-up then? Because it was really good before and a 1F version of it in this game that allows for a 3k -> 5k follow-up is perhaps too good.

[mAc Chaos]

I don't get what you mean. Why wouldn't it be great with 1f startup? Or do you mean, explain how it wouldn't be TOO great.

[OmnixTSC]

Enma follow-up to drives should scale harder. You get too much damage off of it, lol.

[mAc Chaos]

Just get rid of it altogether and make his counters how they used to be. Bam.

[Errol]

i have a great idea

during OD

6D catches from frame 1