4r5 Report post Posted January 6, 2008 AXL MATCHUP INFORMATION Poking Game More to come!...? You can help! Strategy More to come!...? You can help! Specific Punishes More to come!...? You can help! Setups/baits More to come!...? You can help! Knowledge More to come!...? You can help! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nattak Report post Posted March 6, 2008 Getting in on Axl is a problem, Make sure you FD while jumping. Axl has this vacum effect on his chains, wich means if you jump and FD enough, he will drag you to him. Altho i have no idea how you deal with his counters. Ac axl chains has 2 hits now. 1 normal, 1 vacum. remember while guarding. Watch for overhead on Axl pressure, Tk bomber. usualy comes in after probablu a c.5s, wich is JCable and gives the tight space for tk bomber. if its a run in 2k,5s, tk bomber, it will miss. well its something Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HolyOrderChipp Report post Posted March 6, 2008 To deal with his counters, just hit him with a huge combo after he whiffs one. He'll learn soon enough. He should NEVER use the 214 ones, and the 623 one doesn't get lows, so as long as you're not really predictable, lows won't get countered. His 623 one is useful but risky, just remember that it comes out in one frame, so it can't be used as a reversal, but if you mistime your meaty, it might work. You just have to not be predictable and not leave gaps in pressure strings. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedBeard Report post Posted March 7, 2008 C'mon man, you can't of seriously just said "not leave gaps in your pressure strings" as JOHNNY. Every time he tosses a poke and MCs it, it's a gap. Or a coin. Anything, and Axl can 623P it. Most of Johnny's lows have ass range except 236S. 214 counters aren't useless either. They're better for stopping air comeins if he doesn't have time to 2S. Axl is just a really shitty/annoying match, but at least when you hit him you're going to seriously mess him up. His long range turtling is really hard to get past, you basically have to make a guess and hope you're right. Go for knockdowns instead of huge damage because you don't want to get pushed back out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4r5 Report post Posted April 4, 2008 Today I am reminded that Axl's Tenhouseki (214P catch move) can catch Ensenga. Also, Axl's attacks are huge, but so is his hitbox when he does them. Connecting a super from fullscreen is funny. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Killerwatt Report post Posted June 4, 2008 What are good opening moves for this matchup? The Axl I play tends to backdash and play keep away with his 5P, 2P etc. I can't really IAD into him because I'm tensionless at the start so I have to wait around, but ironically I have to MOVE around to gain tension so I can block his pokes while I am in the air. Also are there any safe ground options for closing the gap? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4r5 Report post Posted June 4, 2008 I play Wait-n-See while holding down-back and keeping my fingers over K and HS. If he moves, I move with him. If he throws out anything, I do 5K. If he throws out something that'll beat my 5K, I do 2HS instead. If your Axl friend keeps backdasding at the start of the round, then you should forward dash to discourage him from doing that latter. IB'ing is a good source of tension. So is walking. You can also try your hand at Slashback. Safest ground option to close the gap is walking forward. If you see a 2P or GreenChain, then you can just IAD. If your good at counter-poking, then you don't really need to get that close at all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
East Sun Ghost Report post Posted June 5, 2008 What are good opening moves for this matchup? The Axl I play tends to backdash and play keep away with his 5P, 2P etc. I can't really IAD into him because I'm tensionless at the start so I have to wait around, but ironically I have to MOVE around to gain tension so I can block his pokes while I am in the air. Also are there any safe ground options for closing the gap? It's simple: AXL 5p = johnny 6p (counter) axl 2hs/2p = johnny 2hs (counter) The frustrating axl's are the ones that forfeits their distance, but rams into the distance of neither mid range (johnny's range) nor close range. They do heavy mixups 5k > 2d > chain (down)...6hs (which can be countered by overdrive but you gotta be quick)...axl bomber downwards (NEVER press buttons after this move cuz axl almost always moves faster I dunno why, probs the frame?) airdashing with a killer joker frc is a good transport plus potential counter hit on axl's chains Normally, the moment johnny gets in close range, and doing his proper mixup, you'll be vouched winning. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Digital Watches Report post Posted August 21, 2008 Besides backdashing, you should probably also watch out for 3P, 63214S, 5S, and specifically against Johnny, maybe even a counter. 5S will reach you no matter what, and is pretty fast. I'm pretty sure your 5S will beat it, but only if you predict it and do it right away. 3P will score a hit if you move or throw something as well, and a counterhit will knock you down or possibly score Axl a combo. I'd actually say 4r5 hit it right on for what you should do: Just sit and watch and counter what he does. There's no reason to get antsy, as Axl actually has more of a chance of fucking Johnny up at match start if you throw something out. Also, don't jump. Seriously. Don't jump. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Genesis Report post Posted September 30, 2008 Shit this match was hard. I played for the first time today against an Axl player and I crapped cubes. I'm playing with a pad so I can't wavedash and it's hard as hell to cover ground quickly against him. I couldn't get close, only sometimes with a super jump I could manage to sneak in. I thought a MFMLV1 would beat his 5P but it doesn't. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4r5 Report post Posted October 1, 2008 MMF is actually the one that out ranges and beats it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Genesis Report post Posted October 1, 2008 I tried it a couple of times and I remember it didn't work, I could be wrong though - I'll try it again. What are your suggestion on getting close to him? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
render Report post Posted October 2, 2008 patience omg truth. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfLQHhU0Vm4 Patience is such a huge part of fighting Axl. Same goes for Potemkin, Venom, Baiken, and ... that's all the comes to mind. Testament? Whatever, either way, don't be in such a rush to close the gap between you and Axl. Let him spam that stupid chain thing all he wants. Once you DO get in, you just want to make it count, and keep him close if you can. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Digital Watches Report post Posted October 2, 2008 Woah, was that really Syuuto? I mean, he plays well there, but I'm used to seeing him play a lot less... conservative. Honestly, I think that conservative keepaway games something Axl doesn't really need to do in this matchup. Well, in general, actually, but moreso here. Though, I guess it worked out for him in the end. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alternate275 Report post Posted October 28, 2008 omg truth. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfLQHhU0Vm4 Patience is such a huge part of fighting Axl. Same goes for Potemkin, Venom, Baiken, and ... that's all the comes to mind. Testament? Whatever, either way, don't be in such a rush to close the gap between you and Axl. Let him spam that stupid chain thing all he wants. Once you DO get in, you just want to make it count, and keep him close if you can. In that video, I saw him zoning with 5P and other lengthy stuff. Is there a hitbox JO can take advantage of? Like perhaps 236P for a Counter Hit perhaps? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4r5 Report post Posted October 28, 2008 On all of Axl's chain attacks, Axl sticks out his arm. Which you can hit, before his attack goes active, or as his attack retracts. For example, if you're at about Johnny's 5HS range, you can 5K Axl, if he does his 5P. Which is why you saw the Axl player shy away from chain attacks, whenever Johnny was close. In the video, the Johnny player could of 6K'ed one of those 5P's. You almost have to guess, to do that, though. And it looked like he wanted to be safe then sorry. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alternate275 Report post Posted October 28, 2008 I'll play around with that then, thanks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
10stars Report post Posted October 30, 2008 If axl is spamming 5p, TMN will hit the chain from the other side of the screen, its a tension risk but landing it can throw an axl player into a panic situation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Digital Watches Report post Posted October 30, 2008 If axl is spamming 5p, TMN will hit the chain from the other side of the screen, its a tension risk but landing it can throw an axl player into a panic situation. Yeah, it would be a bit off-putting if Johnny could suddenly super from the air. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
10stars Report post Posted October 31, 2008 Yeah, it would be a bit off-putting if Johnny could suddenly super from the air. Im kinda blatantly referring to being on the ground, 5p spamming happens often, and instead of walking and then ducking every 5p like in the fight a few posts up, he could have thrown TMN and it would have hit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Digital Watches Report post Posted October 31, 2008 In case you didn't pick up on it, what I'm saying is that you'll never get the opportunity to do that. I watched the vid Render put up again. The last time I saw it, my only thought was: "Why is Syuuto playing so weird?" Then I realized that he's trying to bait the JO. He's doing 5P from well out of range of anything but the super, only when JO has no meter, and frankly, it's not gaining him anything unless JO tries something stupid and rushes in. I think a better JO player wouldn't have fallen for such an obvious bait, but that's just it: Syuuto knew he wouldn't punish him for it, so he just baited him all day long, and it got him damage because JO rushed in. The fact of the matter is that that move is primarily going to be used to AA you, period. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
10stars Report post Posted October 31, 2008 In case you didn't pick up on it, what I'm saying is that you'll never get the opportunity to do that. I watched the vid Render put up again. The last time I saw it, my only thought was: "Why is Syuuto playing so weird?" Then I realized that he's trying to bait the JO. He's doing 5P from well out of range of anything but the super, only when JO has no meter, and frankly, it's not gaining him anything unless JO tries something stupid and rushes in. I think a better JO player wouldn't have fallen for such an obvious bait, but that's just it: Syuuto knew he wouldn't punish him for it, so he just baited him all day long, and it got him damage because JO rushed in. The fact of the matter is that that move is primarily going to be used to AA you, period. lol? i can post multiple videos of it happening if you want, im speaking from experience. Having it happen, doing it, and seeing it beats out talking about how it wont work. You can land TMN on ANY part of his chain or scythe, no matter what poke is thrown out, 5p is simply the easiest to see. Assuming that every player you ever run into plays the exact way that they should in a fight isn't the smartest idea, and it will leave you not punishing things you can. You may play safe enough at all times against a johnny with 50% tension, but its a fact that at LEAST 75% of axls running around don't play like that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Digital Watches Report post Posted October 31, 2008 It's a fact that 75% of testament players can't properly BL loop, that doesn't mean it doesn't factor into the matchup. The idea behind discussing a matchup is that within reason, you should assume that the player is fairly competent. I could write novels on the weird strategies you can use to beat Baiken players who don't block, or Sols that don't use VV. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
10stars Report post Posted October 31, 2008 It's a fact that 75% of testament players can't properly BL loop, that doesn't mean it doesn't factor into the matchup. The idea behind discussing a matchup is that within reason, you should assume that the player is fairly competent. I could write novels on the weird strategies you can use to beat Baiken players who don't block, or Sols that don't use VV. good point :P but i threw it out there because its something i've used to win some fights against axl. The great thing about forums like these is that you can get every side from ever level of player. In the future a johnny may have tension, and an axl may be spamming 5ps, if a TMN comes out and hits it, right on. If the axls smart and doesnt use them, good for the axl. But johnny players need to know every option in every situation, imo. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites