[AC] Johnny vs Axl

[Alternate275]

Is this theory fighter we're discussing?

[A3Religion]

I think that one thing crucial to this matchup that I think is not being discussed enough is the use of the coin. If you (Kabejiwa No DC rush) in on Axl even though you may trade hits more times then not it will counterhit Axl, and can be used to come in on him. I have used this a lot when dealing with Axl's and it has yet to fail except when he does Rensen, and even then a lot of times it counterhits, you get knockdown'd (Not really useful in coming in on that instance).

[Alternate275]

But johnny players need to know every option in every situation, imo.

Well in JO's case, he needs every little bit that can help. He doesn't really have anything he can abuse unlike other characters >.>

Speaking of which.

List O' Mist that work on AXL

No Tension - Corner

+ throw, j.K-S-D>Enkasu

With Tension - Corner

+ throw, sj.K>KJ(frc), K-D>Enkasu

Are there anymore that work on AXL? Mist Finer LVL 2 setups?

Mindscreen

[its iaijutsu]

i played an axl a couple days ago after i read some of this thread and i found patience to be a good tool when fighting him..he tried to poke from long distance which didn't work(backdash and ducking) and when he tried to rush in he'd either run into a coin or i'd wait for an opening in his pressure and exploit it..i've also found that trading a hit for a coin for match opening doesn't hurt either..if you're feeling ballsy you can jackhound rc throw but it may not be worth the tension..

[qwerty]

let's get some discussion going in these parts

me vs mr. watches

[Killerwatt]

let's get some discussion going in these parts

me vs mr. watches

All I see is a lot of things that remind me how much I hate this matchup. Axl's stupid 5P keeps you in your place all day, and IADing on him is asking for a free Resen into Axl Bomber combo. I noticed you using 2HS to stop his offensive; you're a ballsy man. It worked though, but I wish there was something a little safer Johnny can do to interrupt Axl pressure. Good thing he takes hits like a bitch and some nice L2MF combos will put him down quickly.

(btw what's the event? Tourney or just casuals?)

[FlamesMacloud]

Ouch man, watches was rushing your shit down. his 2k seemed to almost always hit and i dont think johnnys got any answer for it. Somone above mentioned Usiing DC's coin rush style, i think thats proberly most effective way to go for him

[Digital Watches]

Ouch man, watches was rushing your shit down. his 2k seemed to almost always hit and i dont think johnnys got any answer for it. Somone above mentioned Usiing DC's coin rush style, i think thats proberly most effective way to go for him

Anti-Air 2K (Largely used to low-profile under moves that don't hit the ground) gets hit by Johnny's j.H and Divine blade, as well as, I'm pretty sure, KJ, you can PROBABLY also j.K it, but I'm not too sure on that one. What you can ALWAYS do is block low on landing. Even if your move doesn't hit him, the meaty 2K I get away with hitting should be blocked the majority of the time, as, well, that's how air normals work. You can land and block.

[vedasisme]

I saw a lot of impatient play...he kept hitting you with the rensen ender for his blockstring. I really don't think there's any way to escape or counter that, you need to just block more and be patient.

[Digital Watches]

Aye, the mixup there is Rashousen, actually. I guess I should explain this as people don't seem to get it. Axl defaults to Rensen as something to use after he's expended any gatling options/gotten too far away from the opponent to hit them with more blockstring. While you can make this a solid blockstring by ending your string with something high-level (e.g. 5H->Rensen) and cancelling right away (Which you especially do if you want to FRC and keep your string going), Axl will more often, intentionally or not, leave a small frame window between the last normal and the rensen. If you're especially impatient and think this window is somehow big enough to poke out (Er, it's not, 'nuff said), people will try to jump or swing or something, and rensen will just eat the startup and knock you down, giving Axl free oki. Continuing to block is almost always your best option, because eating a rensen is a free knockdown, or, if the Axl GUESSES you'll do that and FRCs it (or just has ungodly good reaction time) a free combo, which will probably hurt a lot because you were just blocking shit and your guardbar is up.. However, Axl can screw with you for trying to block, because he has Rashousen, and until the special effects come in (The green bubbly stuff or the Blue giant zappa-orb thing), the animations are exactly the same. What this means is that if you know you can't jump out of the string before the rensen hits, you're probably going to sit there and block, and although Rashousen isn't fast, it's a lot of frames in before you can tell it's not a rensen, and it doesn't count as a commandgrab, so it'll eat your jump startup if you try to jump too late. This is made especially dangerous now that Axl has a feint for the move, so that basically, if he fakes it and you jump late, you're at a great range for Axl to kill you with his stupid-good AA, which, best case, you faultless and get into another blockstring, minus a chunk of meter, and worst case, you get smacked and take a good 1/3-2/3 of your life, depending on character, spacing, whatever. The OPTIMAL solution to Rashousen is to jump early. That is to say, REALLY fucking early, right when you're out of blockstun, because that way, even if Axl does the feint, you get a free punish, because it's just not fast enough to recover. The problem with that is, well, you know, jumping too early makes you eat a rensen, and it's hard to tell. You can 1FJ, but then you won't get the forward IAD, and probably won't get your punish. Plus it gets complicated, because this is Guilty Gear and Axl can pretty much throw rensen/Rashou into his string at a LOT of places, so you can't as easily memorize the situation and watch out for it after specific string-ender moves. Essentially, it's a lot of conditioning. While it's definitely true that a lot of people play impatiently and just try to jump/poke out/stop blocking and eat Rensen, you'll see it among people who aren't quite as bad at defense because Rashousen strikes fear into the hearts of man and beast alike.

[vedasisme]

With all that said, given the choice I'd rather get hit with rashousen than rensen.

[Digital Watches]

Eh, it's still something like 75 damage and knockdown for more oki. I've had lots of matches where people just resign themselves and say "I'll stay on the ground and block no matter what" (Sometimes out loud!), but usually after three to five blockstrings into Rashousen, they're willing to try to get out again.

[Killerwatt]

Thanks for letting us all in on that DW. After reading that I understand why this matchup is so problematic for Johnny. Patience really is the name of the game, but my issue is that sometimes not even that is enough, as too much patience leads to being zoned all day, and too little leads to death. Looking for an opening is easier said that done, be it under Axl pressure or not.

[Digital Watches]

Yeah, it's tough because this is one of like five or six matchups where Axl can actually zone effectively from just about any range (By contrast, characters who aren't Pot, Anji, HOS, Johnny, ABA, and to an extent Slayer have no trouble getting in as long as they stick to the ground for the most part (Poor I-No) and don't get predictable. Axl isn't really a good zoning character.) Johnny basically wants to be in a "dead zone" for Axl moves when he's trying to play spacing games, that is to say, around max range for Axl's 3P and f.S (Where he can't really get a combo off of them). This is where Johnny can carve out an advantage with superior pokes like f.S and 5H (although it's not free by any means), and possibly get a good hit or even a knockdown. The important thing is to get your pressure going.

[Oiboi]

Qwerty, you played beastly against Watches. A few things: -Use your super. It's a fast, potent, safe reversal-- bait him into attacking and punish him for it. -Watch your meter, you like to spend that shit like a zappa player (lol). I think it'd be better to save it up for the big moment when you think you can get a reversal or when you've got the advantage of pressure or such, especially against Axl -Remember you can hit his chains. I saw you coin his chain once, which was funny but also gave you the chance for some positional advantage options-- After getting a hit you can't really combo off of, I suggest you ALWAYS try to go for a divine transport option or jackhound to close the distance and get into your desired range of play. Obviously if you can combo off of something, do it, but in the chance you get, get all up in his grill and wreck his shit. We'll see how next tourney goes bro. Should be hype.