[AC] Johnny vs Eddie

[4r5]

EDDIE MATCHUP INFORMATION

Poking Game

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Strategy

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Specific Punishes

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Setups/baits

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Knowledge

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[JOFan]

JO dies?

[4r5]

Fight with everything you got.

[JOFan]

then u get tripped... anyways, whats a good opening move? 5 far s xx coin?

[burningvigor]

I like to start off throwing a coin and go crazy. Stay on eddie or your fucked thats all there is to it

[4r5]

Opening round I do nothing and wait for him to make the first move. I don't want to give him a chance to backdash or counterhit me and then have an opportunity to summon.

[RedBeard]

Opening round I do nothing and wait for him to make the first move. I don't want to give him a chance to backdash or counterhit me and then have an opportunity to summon.

^This. Anything you do is risky at the start so waiting for him to make a move is ideal. Reason being that a backdash may result in an HS IH waiting for you. Doing any poke can wind up with an S IH trade which is most definitely worse for you than it is for him because if you get knocked down, you're in for a world of shit.

Without tension in a neutral situation, there isn't as much to fear from Eddie at match start...so I think it's best to be cautious.

[tj3ssa1]

then u get tripped...

anyways, whats a good opening move? 5 far s xx coin?

this is not a good way to start a round. since eddie will usually start a round with either 2k or backdash you wanna do jo's 2k or 5k, it will either clash with or beat eddie's 2k and if he backdashes then there's nothing much to worry about. 2k or 5k, nothing else will work, i've tried.

[JOFan]

beside the throw into knockdown combo and the stuff involving 2d is there any other combo off lvl 2 finer that will cause knockdown, allowing me to set up a cross-up? i been working on my cross-ups but i cant seem to score a knockdown off the lvl2 combo: after lvl2 ksk kjfrc jhs db... ;( mabe we should have a combo section that deals with cross-ups.. i think thats a vital addition to his basic mix-ups.

[4r5]

lvl2 ksk kjfrc jhs db... ;(

... KJ(frc), iad.K-S-D>Ensenga for the 1-hit instead?

Sure, if you wanna start up a thread for cross-ups and stuff, go for it. No need to wait for us mods.

[B.L. Pancho]

Hey Redbeard, you mentioned this matchup as being 7-3 but I read somewhere over in the foundation that the matchup isn't much worse than 6-4 (although this could be assuming the Johnny is playing nearly immaculate). Is it really 7-3? Everyone else: Any other tips?

[4r5]

I wouldn't say it's 3-7, this ain't reload no more. And yeah, tiers are based on the characters being played to the best of human ability. But really, no need to get hooked up on the numbers. Knowing the ratio's aren't going to make a fight any easier. Any other tips? Have I mentioned that blockstring into summon is not guaranteed for Eddie? It's a bit of a mixup in itself, but it's not for free.

[A3Religion]

Practice SBing the second hit on the summon K, and you pretty much could breathe a little bit easier with this matchup. My boy Xaqshinor used the tactic in ECC and trampled a lot of the Eddies.

[4r5]

You can also backdash the second hit of summon K. It's good to be able to do both. Sometimes they're baiting the backdash or have a drill setup behind you. Other times they tighten up their string so you can't make use of your slashback.

[A3Religion]

Your right if you do encounter a good Eddie you should watch for that but making the Eddie work harder, and have to predict makes a higher chance of error on his part. But what you are saying is valid though. Just giving up some options, everyone needs options.

[East Sun Ghost]

Generally from my personal experience: 1) Hold down your lv.1 MF(S) when eddie summons out shadow. Teleport to and fro until you get close enough to kill it. With the charge bar regaining time, pump in the pressure on eddie, but ONLY air dash when you've safely judged the circumstances as 2HS's got heavy punishing effect. 2) FDC jump. This changes your trajectory to minimize air throws, and could also block -s- claws, 2HS, 6P. 3) As in the other johnny forum here, if you've mastered the "lv.2 k MF> coin> IAD> jpjkjd >one hit ensenga > mist > k> s> lv.2 k MF...repeat" trick, this is insanely productive. I've seen top tier eddies being sliced and diced by Johnnys repeating this pattern. Who says johnny doesn't have unblockables? One thing I would like to ask though: I've seen Johnnies throwing eddies RIGHT BEFORE the eddie could hammer a 6K>214S>-k- gattling combination. What's the know-how? P.S. I like Alex DeLarge

[A3Religion]

I had a chance recently to play MarlinPie, and beat Marn, and I got a little more insight how to play Eddie. 1) On the opening since a lot of times they are so confident in their normals, I usually just coin them. Even though they do Invite Hell, I still have enough time to block. Its worth it to me if we trade because my next combo is guaranteed half damage. 2) Even though I don't recommend it but if you do plan on jumping, Superjump everytime so that he can't hit you with Little Eddie S. and when he does do the move DB frc to kill him off. That helped me out a couple of times. 3) You should never allow an Eddie player to have out little Eddie and come at you and succeed in intiating pressure from the other side of the screen even with Invite Hells. You can just throw one coin and that is all over. 4) When you actually get caught in the lockdown, the only bit of advice is that you either learn to SB on the second hit of Mawaru or just learn your opponents patterns. I blocked low most of the time though, and adjust high for his 6K. Also when he goes under ground (Break the Law) that you block high for the Shadow Gallery.

[Mitsurugi]

Don't always throw coin as a starter as he can run > 2D you. Then you know the "drill" when he gets a knockdown with a full lil' Ed gauge. His 2S can stuff many of your starters, beware. When blocking (preferably not in the corner), I often backdash between the two hits of mawaru (IB the first hit helps). Of course, if you do that too often the Eddie player will find a way to get you, such as run > 623S. Yep, I also block high most of the time during his lockdown, then backdash when I have the chance, be cautious of his 6K overhead but also of "breaks", stops in his attacks. This means he is gonna special throw you. Good ED players won't let lil Eddie get stuffed by a coin. They will make him going back and forth, just outside of a coin range, making it hard to get rid of it. Then he will either go for attack or call it back to refill lil' Ed gauge. Already mentioned but if you can consistently do the corner [MF-K(2) > coin > IAD combo into 1-hit > 214P] loop on him, that is a great asset in this match-up. Unfortunately, I'm far from doing that 100% of the time yet but I've seen good JO players, whether Japanese or not do that, leading them to victory against good ED players.

[East Sun Ghost]

How many hits in total are there for -k- little eddie? So it's like there are two hits, instant block the first, backstep, and we can dodge the second -k- little eddie hit?

When blocking (preferably not in the corner), I often backdash between the two hits of mawaru (IB the first hit helps). Of course, if you do that too often the Eddie player will find a way to get you, such as run > 623K.

[4r5]

2 hits. Yes, though there is still big Eddie to be concerned with.

[A3Religion]

Don't always throw coin as a starter as he can run > 2D you. Then you know the "drill" when he gets a knockdown with a full lil' Ed gauge.

His 2S can stuff many of your starters, beware.

When blocking (preferably not in the corner), I often backdash between the two hits of mawaru (IB the first hit helps). Of course, if you do that too often the Eddie player will find a way to get you, such as run > 623S.

Yep, I also block high most of the time during his lockdown, then backdash when I have the chance, be cautious of his 6K overhead but also of "breaks", stops in his attacks. This means he is gonna special throw you.

Good ED players won't let lil Eddie get stuffed by a coin. They will make him going back and forth, just outside of a coin range, making it hard to get rid of it. Then he will either go for attack or call it back to refill lil' Ed gauge.

Already mentioned but if you can consistently do the corner [MF-K(2) > coin > IAD combo into 1-hit > 214P] loop on him, that is a great asset in this match-up. Unfortunately, I'm far from doing that 100% of the time yet but I've seen good JO players, whether Japanese or not do that, leading them to victory against good ED players.

I admit for the coin in the beginning given that they didn't play many JO players, they didn't know what to do. That might be a good reason as to why either didn't find a way around it. They did try 2S, and everytime it traded with my coin, nothing really special to me honestly when it came to that move.

The Backdashing I believe is way too risky because the only times I actually got the backdash to work I got punished. Marlin almost never dropped a combo and neither did Marn so it was painful.

I don't block high though because you can see 6K with a little warning but 5K is instant.

The only thing I totally don't agree with is saying that good EDs will find a way to get around JO's coin. I understand that if he puts him away that will make sense, but if he is close enough to attack then he is definitely close enough to be coined or for at least to make Big ED block. MarlinPie, and Marn are good EDs but after a while they even quit coming in on me with the little Eddie out. He is either close enough to get hit, block or Big Ed gets hit or block. Either way it will result in the lil eddie stopping. Coin goes dang near half screen the only thing eddie has that far is the D for lil ed and IH, and either is easily blocked.

[4r5]

Neither Marn or Marlin knew what to do about opening round Coin? I remember both of them doing dashing 6P or dashing 2S against me. You don't even need to dash long, you just need the momentum and it will carry you under it. But I guess they could of forgot.

[Mitsurugi]

Oopsie, I meant "I also block low most of the time during his lockdown", hence the "also" as you do that too. I shouldn't write posts while doing something else.

3) You should never allow an Eddie player to have out little Eddie and come at you and succeed in intiating pressure from the other side of the screen even with Invite Hells. You can just throw one coin and that is all over.

if he is close enough to attack then he is definitely close enough to be coined or for at least to make Big ED block

Sorry if I misunderstood you, I was talking about the first part, when both of you are across the screen.

Sure, if you see the opportunity to take lil ED with a coin by all means do so then RTSD but when both of you are across the screen, that is not that free.

In fact, they don't really get around, they can just wait for you either to waste your coins or for you to close the gap (something you should avoid if he has lil ED out). Should it last too long, he will then call it back before the gauge reaches zero in order to refill it faster and he will be ready for your attack with AA and such. Now it also depends who has more life between the two players, if he has the advantage or not.

Or they can try to initiate the attack and that meets what you said.

Backdashing before the second hit of mawaru is not a panacea, just one of your options amongst the others (IB, FD, SB, 1f jump which you can combine depending on what you want etc). It has risks but it may be the best solution sometimes. I know I use it too much in this match-up though.

[A3Religion]

Oh alright cool. What does RTSD mean? Glad we got around the miscommunication.

[Rome]

R ush

T hat

S hit

D own

This can help with many other things you might not know....

http://sonichurricane.com/articles/sfterms.html