Aquapazza: Aqua+ Dream Match

[redsilversnake]

She's one of them, but she isn't the definitive "top tier"

 

She's up there with Chizuru though.

Not really. She's solid, but she's not as good as Chizuru or Tamaki, she just has a better chance against them than half the cast does.

[Dogars]

Not really. She's solid, but she's not as good as Chizuru or Tamaki, she just has a better chance against them than half the cast does.

I thought like top 3 was considered (in no specific order)

Tamaki

Chizuru

Karulau

 

I mean i see that being accurate... follow not far by people like Konomi or Sasara

[jailhousefrog89]

chizuru is DEFINITELY the best character by far

[redsilversnake]

I thought like top 3 was considered (in no specific order)

Tamaki

Chizuru

Karulau

 

I mean i see that being accurate... follow not far by people like Konomi or Sasara

Chizuru is easily the best character, and players generally agree that Tamaki is right below her. I'm not entirely sure about much beyond that, but Karula (no, there isn't a u in her name, whoever did the romanization fucked up) isn't among the top three.

As for the other characters you mention, Konomi actually seems pretty average rather than high, while I've consistently seen Sasara described as weak.

[Speakeasy]

I certainly hope the romanization team screwed up on a lot more than that. What's up with these names? Rathty? What? Is it just something you have to know a lot about Japanese to get or something?

[sibladeko]

In this thread, people responding seriously to Manabe :V Anyway according to JP (Owen aka MultiPro): Chizuru >= Tamaki > Konomi >= Karulau >> rest >> Hakuowlo > Sasara > Manaka >> Riannon >= Oboro. Arguing about the order of "rest" is another day, but I'm pretty sure people put Konomi above Karulau for top 3 consistently.

[ukyo_rulz]

Still plugging away with my fraudulent Karulau (or カルラ, whatever).　Some questions:

* Is there any good combo to do with Rina if I get a midscreen hitconfirm?

* I am slowly learning to use Maryan for neutral and guard crush setups. She's great for that. Does she give me any worthwhile combo extensions in the corner or even midscreen?

* How to fight Chizuru (at this point I can predict and block her patterns, but all my punish attempts have been failing).

* How to fight Sasara (so many of her online). I can beat them when they try to go in but when I attack I always eat Shield Bash when I run and Raising Smash when I jump. Then they call Maryan so it looks like I can't punish.

[Elochai]

I certainly hope the romanization team screwed up on a lot more than that. What's up with these names? Rathty? What? Is it just something you have to know a lot about Japanese to get or something?

ラスティ is pronounced "rasuti", which I don't think would sound good in English. I never liked hearing her name spoken in the T3 anime either .

[ehuangsan]

Yeah, the big three are Chizuru >= Tamaki >= Konomi, and then Karulau is right after. The order of the rest is up for debate, with Riannon, Manaka and Oboro being the bottom three in some order. A lot of people think Hak is low tier, but I definitely do not think so. He has too many ways to end the round instantly off of very random things.

 

Chizuru is the best but it isn't by a very huge margin. Tamaki, Konomi and Karulau are even, and Hak and Arawan can provide many problems even though the matchup is a slight disadvantage to them. In particular, the Chizuru-Tamaki matchup is Chizuru struggling to grind out a victory while Tamaki is whistling steamboat willie and generally having all the fun doing whatever she feels like doing. Certain team strategies and play styles are also rather problematic for Chizuru (Touka/Rina is one the first that comes to mind).

 

Despite Manabe's trolling, some of those tactics are correct in the Chizuru-Karulau matchup. Karulau should be having an orgasm every time Chizuru's feet leave the ground. Air throw makes Chizuru very very sad, and Karulau generally has air superiority over Chizuru's air pokes and anti airs. So Chizuru is forced to take the fight to the ground, and the matchup is even basically because her ground game is better than Karulau's in general.

[SoWL]

I certainly hope the romanization team screwed up on a lot more than that. What's up with these names? Rathty? What? Is it just something you have to know a lot about Japanese to get or something?

I'm still amazed by the whole Hakuowlo thing.

[Luis]

A lot of people think Hak is low tier, but I definitely do not think so. He has too many ways to end the round instantly off of very random things.

Where would you put him in the tier list? He has short reach normals, which is why I use him as a zoner and get close when the time is right. This works well unless you're a good blocker and know how to impact guard. He has counters to make up for his short range normals, but you'll have to be lucky to catch someone with those, unless their really predictable. I wish you can combo into his overhead from his 5A/2A. This would make it confusing to know where to block. I'm no expert so enlighten me.

[sibladeko]

I still put Hakuowlo below average, because all his matchups feel slightly disadvantageous (top and high tiers in general) to slightly advantageous (only against other low tier characters) at best, with the exception of Sasara, who is downright terrible for Haku. That being said, since they're only slightly disadvantageous, it means the hard workers can definitely place very well with that character (Mizuchama da gawd) in a top tier-driven tournament environment. This would not be the case if Sasara was top tier (as she was in the last version).

Unfortunately, Sasara's worst matchups are against the two best characters in the game, which sort of means she gets deleted from the tournament environment in general, so Hakuowlo can breathe easier.

[sibladeko]

* How to fight Sasara (so many of her online). I can beat them when they try to go in but when I attack I always eat Shield Bash when I run and Raising Smash when I jump. Then they call Maryan so it looks like I can't punish.

 

Online Sasara is a pretty amusing scourge that is a product of netplay that takes advantage of the fact that people will not be able to punish all her terrible move recovery on reaction.

That being said, there are some easy things you can do against laggy or autopilot Sasaras.

1. Shield bash abuse is by far the most dominant feature of online Sasara, and they'll be using it as much as online Chizuru 66C. This move does not have LOW ARMOR, so you can try to 2A or 2C it. 236 Rocks also have enough hits to slow shield bash down and make it whiff. If you are forced to block the slower 214C version, you can do raw super on her before the fireworks save her. If you are blocking the 214B version, it is a very good idea if you have meter to guard cancel 6BC if you see her do Maryan, this puts you even on meter but you at an advantage position wise. If you have Rina or Yuki, you can guard cancel the shield bash into them to completely remove Maryan and punish her.

2. When dashing at Sasara, learn to use 214 feints to dodge shield bash completely, a whiffed shield bash is a dead shield bash. Shield bash also doesn't have instant startup, so meaty dashing at Sasara (to go into 66A or a feint) will blow up wakeup shield bash attempts.

3. Against her anti-air, learn to use 623 or even super to hang in the air to make rising smash whiff and punish the crap out of her. On oki you should be using jB to crossup so that rising smash isn't even an issue, even if it absorbs the hit you'll land on the other side.

4.  Learn to buffer 214214AB against everything that isn't shield bash.  This means that if you block 5B -> 5CC (the two long pokes), 5B->2C (sweep), 5B->BC (super garbage online only overhead) or 5B->nothing, just let 214214AB go and it will punish her recovery.

[ukyo_rulz]

This move does not have LOW ARMOR

Wow. So many missed punish opportunities for me.

If you are blocking the 214B version, it is a very good idea if you have meter to guard cancel 6BC if you see her do Maryan, this puts you even on meter but you at an advantage position wise. If you have Rina or Yuki, you can guard cancel the shield bash into them to completely remove Maryan and punish her.

2. When dashing at Sasara, learn to use 214 feints to dodge shield bash completely, a whiffed shield bash is a dead shield bash. Shield bash also doesn't have instant startup, so meaty dashing at Sasara (to go into 66A or a feint) will blow up wakeup shield bash attempts.

3. Against her anti-air, learn to use 623 or even super to hang in the air to make rising smash whiff and punish the crap out of her. On oki you should be using jB to crossup so that rising smash isn't even an issue, even if it absorbs the hit you'll land on the other side.

Sounds good. I will work on these.

Learn to buffer 214214AB against everything that isn't shield bash.

This was basically my strategy. Works well against green bar connections, but it was fairly iffy against yellow bar opponents.

[Luis]

I wish I could fight those high rank Japanese players in player match, but they have red delay and will not enjoy fighting me. I have fought and managed to beat some of them before. The one with the orange delay in ranked wasn't too bad and playable. Me and ukyo_rulz should teleport and switch places. You get these easy Americans with bad habits and just brought the game and rage quit, while I get the one year experienced opponents.

[botagel]

I get so sad when the lag's low enough that I actually need to respect Chizuru's BC.

[ukyo_rulz]

I wish I could fight those high rank Japanese players in player match, but they have red delay and will not enjoy fighting me. I have fought and managed to beat some of them before. The one with the orange delay in ranked wasn't too bad and playable. Me and ukyo_rulz should teleport and switch places. You get these easy Americans with bad habits and just brought the game and rage quit, while I get the one year experienced opponents.

 

After I started to understand the flow of the game, I got better very fast. I'm in a weird place where I still tend to lose to the S-rankers online with thousands of games played, but I'm not challenged by most of the A-rankers with only a couple hundred matches played anymore. I'm actually fairly happy with where I am right now, as far as skill level is concerned. Don't feel particularly pressured to level up further. I can win maybe 30% of my matches vs the best players and I mostly beat the intermediate ones. I also started playing around with a pocket Morgan. She's fun and the corner combos are stylish. All my strategies and combos are copied from the Morgan players at Examu Cup.

 

The online play is very good here in Japan, though I don't think the netcode is anything special. It just seems that the game is very lenient with inputs. Mike Z told me before that this is the same reason Tekken plays so well online. I think all games should be designed like this.

 

 

I get so sad when the lag's low enough that I actually need to respect Chizuru's BC.

 

I only played one match with red connection level, where I had to respect Sasara's BC. Never again.

[SolxBaiken]

Examu Cup '14 (quarter finals and up) [ part 1 | part 2 | part 3 | part 4 | part 5 | part 6 | part 7 ]

[Luis]

Does anyone here knows Japanese? What do the characters say, when you pick them in the character select?

[ehuangsan]

More proof that Aquapazza is a treasure trove of lulz: Tamaki's 720 grabs Arawn's DP. What a great game.

[Kaori Manabe]

More proof that Aquapazza is a treasure trove of lulz: Tamaki's 720 grabs Arawn's DP. What a great game.

 

 

What? 

 

How does that work

[Tone]

probably a lack of throw invul

 

also depends on which arawn dp, idk if she can throw the A version like that, but B or C seems about right

[Luis]

He's saying I was having a hard time getting in with Oboro against his Arawn, because he kept using DP. (Yes me and him played a lot of matches online) I don't know what to do in that Rinannon/Tamaki match up anymore. Hakuoro is all I got now if I want to win. I will still use Riannon and Oboro whether I win or lose, because having more than one mains is more fun to me. Maybe I should go back to Yuki.

[ehuangsan]

probably a lack of throw invul

 

also depends on which arawn dp, idk if she can throw the A version like that, but B or C seems about right

 

It was B DP. Call Utlhury as oki and then B DP tamaki on wakeup, but she reversaled 720 FTW.

 

 

He's saying I was having a hard time getting in with Oboro against his Arawn, because he kept using DP. (Yes me and him played a lot of matches online) I don't know what to do in that Rinannon/Tamaki match up anymore. Hakuoro is all I got now if I want to win. I will still use Riannon and Oboro whether I win or lose, because having more than one mains is more fun to me. Maybe I should go back to Yuki.

 

There's a reason why most people run Riannon with Yuki so as to not auto lose on the select screen. Her only playable assists are Yuki, Rathy, Satsuki and Octavia. Everything else is an almost automatic loss against a lot of characters.

 

You should also try a different assist than Octavia with Oboro. Satsuki, Ulthury, Boss Ma-Ryan, or Camyu would work a lot better and do a lot more damage off of random hits. Also, and it's probably because you only play netplay, it looks like you have almost no sense of danger in a lot of situations where it would be dangerous to hit a button or jump, which is why you got killed by Arawn DP into Ulthury a lot. It's one of those unfortunate things about online; the lag lets you get away with that a lot especially with a character like Riannon and Hakuwolo, as both of them gain quite a lot from the lag. Unfortunately, Oboro doesn't gain that kind of lulz from the lag on defense other than dp randomly hitting where it shouldn't sometimes.

 

I know that because I also cheat with Riannon and have a 88% win percentage online because of lol lag, but can barely scrub one game in three with her in the offline world. Against the good Tamaki players in NorCal, I would be lucky to win a game at all.

[Luis]

Nah I like Oboro with Ocativa, even though they don't work well together. They both have swords and almost the same fighting stance. Camyu is not even a good assist for Hakuowlo either, but I use her because I liked the Utwarerumono anime. The originality of this game will die, if everyone only uses the best stuff. Riannon is a different story though. She really needs Yuki. The whole Arawn DP thing had nothing to do with lag. I had no idea how to deal with a DP heavy Arawn with Oboro. Inputs were ok on my end. I just now realized that I can use Oboro's counter against wakeup DP.