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Axl v. Testament

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Testament

Basic strategy:

As Axl and Testament both operate well at mid-range, this match can heavily depend on spacing. On the one hand, Axl's huge range, gigantic active frame counts, and solid AA game make getting in a hell of a lot more work than Testament is accustomed to in Accent Core. On the other hand, mere keepaway can backfire, as S EXE beast allows Testament to harass you if you get too comfortable staying back. So you really need to get your offense rolling as best you can, and the simple way to think about this is in three steps:

1. Cripple Testament's offense.

2. Get Testament either knocked down or blocking, using options he can't deal with.

3. Keep Testament locked down (Harder than it sounds).

Defensive tactics:

S EXE Beast blockstrings can be a lot like Eddie's Mawaru rushdown, even without the FRC. Luckily, it contains a lot more opportunities to break out, especially for Axl. Due to his narrow hitbox, IBing and FDing properly (Specifically, FD the last normal before the EXE beast, IB the beast and anything else whenever possible), can get you out of Testament's effective range (Assuming the beast isn't FRC'd), which gives you time to poke with 5K or even f.S. 2D, 2K are the main lows to watch out for, 6P is the fastest overhead, and it's 17 frames, so the basic block low, wait for overhead rule applies.

HS EXE beast: It's level 5, and after 1 frame, it won't disappear if Testament is hit, so it's a nightmare of a poke up close. A well timed 6H, raeisageki, rensen, or 623P will avoid it, but it's safer to jump. You'll also have to deal with is Testament's poison OD, which is fast and usually trades with things.

On wakeup, some Testaments will try to get you with an ambiguous-crossup meaty Badlands. This is actually pretty easy to deal with, as all you have to do is attempt a throw when you see the startup. If the testament does the move too late, he'll get thrown, and if not, 5H's upper body invulnerability will often beat out Badlands and counterhit for a huge chunk of damage and possibly knockdown. Note that a normal badlands out of the blue can be beaten by most if not all of Axl's copious AA options fairly easily.

Offensive tactics:

When going in, try to hit Testament first from outside his effective range. j.S is useful, since he doesn't have a ridiculous fast 6P like Ky or Johnny, and Raeisageki (S) can be hard to deal with as well. Go for pokes like 2H and 2P outside of Testament's 5H range (2P can be dangerous to try if he goes for Badlands or Grave Digger.) 3P at max range is a good thing to fish for counterhits with, as it'll knock down. Basically, just go for either a blockstring or a knockdown, and keep pressure as best you can. Just watch out for H EXE beast, as trading is always bad. Also remember to avoid getting into the range that 5S becomes c.S, as that gives Testament a 5F normal, which is faster than any of yours. Also, I'm fairly certain that a well-timed 2K will go under both 5H and f.S.

Screen maintainence:

Watching where Testament places traps is important, as it's good to get rid of them as soon as possible when you can. For Zeinests, you can just use the appropriate long range attack (5P, 6K, 2S), which you should do any time Testament is too far away to punish it or busy setting something else up, as not having them on the screen is preferable. 6K and 2S have much bigger hitboxes than they look like they do, so there shouldn't be anywhere you can't reach fairly easily.

HITOMI (trees) are a bit more problematic. You can of course get rid of the smaller ones by hitting Testament (j.S is a good tool for this). Both can also be gotten rid of by passing over them, which Raeisageki (S) and Raeisageki (H) are both good tools for, especially with running momentum. For the larger trees, it can also be safer to try to catch Testament with a Rashousen, since Axl is invincible throughout the whole followup animation, but slides forward, which will activate the trees harmlessly if they're between him and Testament. If you feel especially courageous, you can also use trees to set up Housoubako, since they take a long time to come out and Housou counters on the second frame. This is especially cool, as it gives Axl a move that's invincible to strikes, hard to block (Must be faultlessed in the air, and is unblockable on the ground), can lead into combos on counterhit (or with 25% meter) and will knock down by itself. Just don't get predictable, or Testament can just hit you with something low before the tree activates it.

Dealing with markings:

A marking is Testament's only real way to turn the match around. It stuffs your offense, gives Testament offensive help, and can set up unblockables with the crow transformation and any low. So don't get marked. Save bursts for combos that can mark, avoid high markings, rensen through or 5P over low markings. If you do get marked, wait it out (Could a Testament player tell me the average and maximum number of actions the crow will do before the marking goes away? I thought it was four or five, but I don't remember.) Block Testament's rushdown, and if you see the crow turn into the girl, jump and FD to avoid unblockables. If you see an opportunity, hit Testament with a poke to get rid of the mark, but for the most part, you should avoid attacking until the marking is gone.

Pros:

-Zeinests and other zoning tools of Testament's are all but useless

-No significant counters to Axl's aerial options.

-Most damaging combos can be started from outside of Testament's effective range.

-Uses a lot of aerial approach patterns that Axl can easily AA.

-Has a hard time keeping Axl blocking midscreen without meter.

-Several opportunities to safely activate Housoubako

Cons:

-In the corner, Axl has severe difficulty safely getting out of blockstun, due to HS EXE beast.

-Marking forces Axl to go on the defensive, which is a loss of precious momentum.

-Axl is very easy to BL loop, and thus can take a lot of damage in a lot of situations.

-Most close-range options trade unfavorably with HS EXE beast.

My opinion:

At least 5.5-4.5 in Axl's favor. Testament almost entirely loses the ability to zone and the ability to come in from the air, which is fairly crippling. Still, this matchup is not an easy win, due to markings and HS EXE beast, not to mention Testament's ability to get damage off of basically any hit.

Well, that's all I've got right now. I'll probably edit this if I or someone else thinks of something that seems to warrant being in the first post. Feel free to contribute, discuss the matchup, whatever. I think this new format is going to work really well, and I'll be making more of these threads when I have more time (I wrote this one first because it was the one I had the most information about in the previous matchup thread)

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Look what I found in the Testa forums..

@ DW

Is there a reason you havent posted that in here too? It may be written from the Testa side of the matchup but still gives good information for both sides.

Okay, I'm bored, and this is a matchup I have a lot of experience with in the past year, having played against probably 6 or 7 testaments, at least 3 of which were very good... and this is arguably Testament's worst matchup, so... here are some problems Testaments tend to have, and some misconceptions I see in this thread as well:

Testament v. Axl

1. While 2H is fairly safe to warrant, it's not guarunteed, and if you see a 2H coming, you should go for an IAD counterhit if possible, since that'll do more for you and is more likely to happen (The FRC and gatling into 6H both make warrant unlikely to hit if the Axl is paying attention). The real situations in which you should be warranting is when Axl tries to throw out a rensen at max or close to max range. This is a good zoning tool in most matchups for Axl, but he can't FRC it and still connect at that range, and warrant will get in very easily. Basically, you want to make Axl afraid to use that.

2. Unfortunately, TK badlands becomes less of an option for Oki against Axl, as he can reversal housoubako on reaction, or simply attempt to throw, scoring a 5H on wakeup, which also beats out badlands (For a nasty aerial counterhit) if timed properly.

3. Hitomi is still useful, but is also very much a danger to Testament in this match. In addition to the myriad of options Axl has to clear these off the screen, he can also use them to activate housoubako, which is invulnerable, unblockable on the ground, and scores Axl a combo on CH or for 25% meter with the FB followup, or just a free knockdown if neither happens. If you can set up situations where a low is hitting at the same time as the tree, Axl loses this option in this situation, but since the counter comes out on the second frame after input, doing this will usually give Axl ample time to block.

4. HS EXE Beast blockstrings, much like Eddie's Mawaru blockstrings, have a few problems against Axl, due to his narrow hitbox. Especially if the Axl can IB well, expect to be unable to connect with certain things, and to occasionally have to abort the blockstring in order to block something. If you don't pay attention and know when your attacks will connect and when Axl is or isn't still in blockstun, you're going to be eating combos in the middle of your pressure game. Don't let this happen!

5. Obviously, against an Axl who watches where you set them and knows how and when to perform screen maintainence, Zeinests lose all purpose as hitting moves for the most part. However, they can still be useful to drain active frames from moves, giving you more time to react. Keep that in mind when using them.

6. Range is not the only thing Axl has on Testament. Up close, there are many moves Axl has that give Testament a hard time, and may come unexpectedly. I'm mostly referring to 6H, 5H, 2K, 2S, Housoubako, and 3P. Specifically keep in mind that:

-Even though it's not listed in the frame data, 5H has some upper-body invulnerability, which will net Axl counterhits against aerial attacks, including Badlands and any jump-ins. It is also level five, which, while not specific to Testament, is a nuissance when forced to block it.

-3P hits from a lot farther away than it did in Slash, and is a fast, low poke that doesn't leave Axl at much risk. It is, however, very easy to jump over.

-2K is a problem for Testament because it can go under several of his ground zoning tools while not coming into throw range.

-6H will go over a lot of Testament's lows, and I've even seen it go over S EXE Beast several times. A counterhit or meaty loses you a lot of life, and it will also often hit Testament out of badlands if spaced properly.

-Again, Housoubako only needs 1 frame of startup before it becomes active, so much like Jam's parry, Axl does not need much time to react in order to pull one out randomly, but unlike Jam's parry, Axl can cancel into it from most of his normals.

7. S EXE beast is your friend. Usually, Rensen won't kill it, and since it comes out on the first frame, it is extremely difficult to counter or beat, and it will net you a trade almost any time Axl is trying to attack from up close, and trades tend to work out in Testament's favor.

8. USE MARKINGS: this was the one piece of advice Mint gave Jamie when she was having a hard time beating me at Evo. Axl is very weak in the field of fast moves and defensive options, and therefore having the crows on him can shut him down almost completely. In my personal opinion, Axl's best option here is to wait out the crow patterns, and maybe try for a random poke against Testament occasionally, but this still means that Axl will be forced to be on the defensive, and that's where Axl is weakest.

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Look what I found in the Testa forums..

@ DW

Is there a reason you havent posted that in here too? It may be written from the Testa side of the matchup but still gives good information for both sides.

Oh, yeah, sorry about that. :v: I completely forgot to cross-post it here, even though I had intended to.

I also posted something a little less complete in the Dizzy forum, but it's basically all from the Dizzy side of the matchup, and so I don't know how useful it would be to Axl players.

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Since this is one of the two threads with new content I just wanted to have them up^^. I will delete this post as soon as the discussion goes on :P

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You guys(Shoto, DW) are amazing for this! Right now I don't have many questions about this matchup because of axl's AA usually beats out Testaments jump in! However, one question do you consider it safe for using axl's long range chains to fish out Teste's nets? Ex: look like pressure with 5p but I'm actually looking for where he placed those red suckers. You guys have more experience, so I was wondering if good teste players would use this against me.

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You guys(Shoto, DW) are amazing for this!

Right now I don't have many questions about this matchup because of axl's AA usually beats out Testaments jump in!

However, one question do you consider it safe for using axl's long range chains to fish out Teste's nets? Ex: look like pressure with 5p but I'm actually looking for where he placed those red suckers. You guys have more experience, so I was wondering if good teste players would use this against me.

Nah, I do that all the time. Look at the section on "screen maintainence," as the first paragraph is all about killing those suckers. :keke:

But it's better to know where they are and kill them than to try to find them with random pokes.

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Nah, I do that all the time. Look at the section on "screen maintainence," as the first paragraph is all about killing those suckers. :keke:

But it's better to know where they are and kill them than to try to find them with random pokes.

Oh ok, I did. I have a few questions for clarification, what exactly are HiTOMIS's, I get they are the trees, but what are their properties? Also, the "markings", those are when u get hit by the skeleton and Teste targets you?

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Oh ok, I did. I have a few questions for clarification, what exactly are HiTOMIS's, I get they are the trees, but what are their properties?

They hit mid, take a while to come up, are activated when you pass over the spot that they're planted (no matter how high you are), and poison when they're the big doll-installed ones.

Also, the "markings", those are when u get hit by the skeleton and Teste targets you?

Yes.

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Funny theory fighter thing: Testament's webs eat active frames, so the hit FRC on benten changes a bit. For one web it's about the same (still after the hitstop), but if you go through two webs with it, it becomes the same as the whiff timing, since the active frames at frames 5 and 6 are getting eaten, so you're hitting with frame 7 (IE FRC frame 1).

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Funny theory fighter thing: Testament's webs eat active frames, so the hit FRC on benten changes a bit. For one web it's about the same (still after the hitstop), but if you go through two webs with it, it becomes the same as the whiff timing, since the active frames at frames 5 and 6 are getting eaten, so you're hitting with frame 7 (IE FRC frame 1).

That sounds like something that would be silly hard to apply in an actual match.:psyduck:

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this match up is most def in TE's favor.. dash 1(FD) goes under axl's 5P...IAD HS goes over 2P.. nets should be placed very high up to avoid axl reach..and to counter his air combos if you get hit..and some other stuff that i will put in the TE match up thread...AXL can still win..but with no unbroks..and only counters into medium dmg..its still in TE favor...counters can be baited and pressure can be applied..i also dabble with axl...and theres a pretty good axl player down here...just my oppinion~

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this match up is most def in TE's favor..

dash 1(FD) goes under axl's 5P...IAD HS goes over 2P.. nets should be placed very high up to avoid axl reach..and to counter his air combos if you get hit..and some other stuff that i will put in the TE match up thread...AXL can still win..but with no unbroks..and only counters into medium dmg..its still in TE favor...counters can be baited and pressure can be applied..i also dabble with axl...and theres a pretty good axl player down here...just my oppinion~

I dunno man, I don't know you, so I can't say for sure, but the way you talk about it, it doesn't sound like you've played a good Axl, no offense.

Every character in the game has something that'll beat 5P clean, and everyone in the game minus pot can IAD over 2P for painful air-to-ground combo starters. I can't tell you how many matchup threads I go into and see people talking about how X move beats the chains, so Axl's at a disadvantage.

Meanwhile, Axl has plenty of ways to get rid of all your nets in the middle of a combo, not the least of which is just throwing some extra 2S-6Ks in to get some active frames out on the screen, or just cutting the combo short and going for knockdown/oki. So if he's getting hit by your nets mid-combo, he probably isn't paying a lot of attention to where the nets are in the first place.

So my advice to your local Axl player: Don't throw random shit out, especially not long pokes (5P is a straightforward AA/anti-setup move, anyway. If your local Axl is throwing it out when no one's moving, he's got bad matchups all over, like I said before) and especially especially not counters (It's a pretty bad habit. I won't say I never do it, but you should really only be throwing those out on reaction, and then only the good one). Against testament specifically, he should just watch the screen. It's not that hard to keep track of the nets and trees, and Axl can deal with them just fine.

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but you should really only be throwing those out on reaction, and then only the good one).

So much hate for Tenhouseki! :lol:

but yeah, I love this matchup, I used to play Anji, whos matchup against everyone Testament is hopeless, so not having Testament be able to do his usual bullshit while still being a threat is an awesome feeling :yaaay:

anyway, the Testament I face likes to throw webs over my knockdown'd corpse, Benten works maybe once in a blue moon and 623P doesn't seem to counter it (prolly due to 2F start up, I'm sure). Is there anything I can do to deal with it or should I just block?

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So much hate for Tenhouseki! :lol:

but yeah, I love this matchup, I used to play Anji, whos matchup against everyone Testament is hopeless, so not having Testament be able to do his usual bullshit while still being a threat is an awesome feeling :yaaay:

anyway, the Testament I face likes to throw webs over my knockdown'd corpse, Benten works maybe once in a blue moon and 623P doesn't seem to counter it (prolly due to 2F start up, I'm sure). Is there anything I can do to deal with it or should I just block?

Benten should work if you get the reversal timing right, as I don't THINK testament can put webs out where they'll hit lower-body, but it is definitely safer to just block.

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none taken.. every thing there u said is tru..and i also fell mine was aswell but..i just wanted to say that this match up is annoying for testement but should still be in his favor.. eddie is his only ugly matchup..honestly i think its not about the character.but how u play them and adapt in different situations ....eddie is every1's bad matchup..

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Actually, Eddie-Testa is 5-5 :lol:

though I guess that doens't mean its not ugly for testa, it just means its equally shitty for both parties. :gonk:

This matchup is definitely in Axl's favor, since Testament doesn't get away with his usual defensive bullshit, Testament has crappy anti-pressure options and Testa is big'n'huge, so he's easy to combo, but Testament still gets good damage, and a knockdown is especially crappy for Axl, due to testaments strong HS EXE Beast lockdown game, so its not terrible on his side. He can also ue Warrant on long range pokes, but you can chain said pokes into Tenhou/623P (the latter preferred), etc, etc.

Overall, Testament has the tools to win, but this is his only bad matchup in the entire game.

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after reading and watching many more vids closely..im a believer...kina felt like watching some1 else play your character and is suxing very bad ...makes your stomache hurt just watching.. but come on ..does it fell like 5-5 when fighting eddie...maby before lil eddie comes out...and then...yes here it comes...little roah eddie...4tw..Can u say BROKEN!!

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Yeah, Eddie is pretty stupid, but hes a lot less bad than #R Eddie. Also, yah, the matchup doesn't feel like its 5-5, but it doesn't feel like that for Eddie, either XD this is getting offtopic though :(

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Back to topic:

I find this match 5.5 in axl's favor, testa can't attack from the air so the only thing he can do is rush in the ground, and the only overhead is 17 frames startup.

In other hand you can Houso exe beast in reaction during his block string and do the fb follow up for combo, and believe me that will make testa shit in his pants, and think twice when he tries something else.

The only bad thing against axl's is his lack of defensive options vs testa once your cornered, so be patience, block low and when you see the 6P(overhead) benten his ass.

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More to the point, HS EXE blockstrings don't really work without FRC, due to Axl's standing hitbox being too thin. Axl can poke out after the beast if he's blocking right. (Trying to beat it with housou EVERY time is bad, as Testament can just wait and smack you with something low while you're trying to do it.) And going for benten v. 6P can get you baited. Seriously, Axl isn't strong with reversals, so don't try to force it, especially against a character that shouldn't really be making you sweat too much (Unless you're marked, and then you should ESPECIALLY not do reversals)

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So one thing Testament players sometimes use is Warrant. If you're playing safe, you can generally avoid anything bad happening, but you can't react in time every time. One fantastic thing you can do against it, though, is when going at him with pretty much any string, quickly input 236P after your first move in the string while continuing the string as normal, trying to act as though you're doing the gatling as late as possible. Most of Axl's moves don't gatling into 6P, and 236P isn't actually a move, so if he just blocks or eats a hit you get whatever you wanted in the first place. But, if he Warranted you, then you get crossed up and your 236P because 214P, Tenhouseki High. You barely even have to try, it just stops it with no effort.

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Alright, let me explain this a little better You don't want to be throwing out a counter in the middle of a string if you don't have to. That's just obviously suboptimal play, and it means that you're going to be doing much less damage and pressuring much less effectively than you could be. By doing 236P in transition to what you might do next, though, timing the gatling late - you'll either do your string or counter warrant. For instance, as a pressure string, instead of doing 3P, f.S, 5H, Rensen FRC, continuing with whatever as 3P [4]S H 6S PKS > followup 3P 236P+S [4]H 6S PKS > followup Since 236P isn't a move and 3P doesn't gatling to 6P, these strings are functionally identical... Except when fighting Testament and he Warranted the 3P. In that case, if you timed the gatling late, then instead of 3P gatlinging to f.S, Testament appears behind you and that entire motion becomes 214P+S, and 3P will special cancel to Tenhouseki High, countering Warrant. This can similarly be done off of most everything else Axl might want to start pressure with, it's free, and once you get the slightly modified timing down it's pretty easy, too.

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