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Digital Watches

Axl v. Anji

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Instead of a placeholder:

:eng101: taken from the General Information thread:

Anji:

Shoto:6,0

Ok, I haven’t played Anji too much, but like in Slash he has terrible problems getting in on Axl and his guard point normals aren’t have as good against a chara who either works on long range an thus is out of reach or doesn’t use classical frame traps for rushdown. But honestly I may not know enough of this matchup to judge it right now.

DW: 6.5 (Maybe even 7)

Considered Axl's best matchup. For one thing, Anji is not a character whose aerial moves can easily deal with Axl's long-range moves, and thus approaching from the air is seldom if ever an option for him. Axls fast, far-reaching lows fuck up his autoguard (which for the most part only blocks high). Fuujin's H and D followups (If you don't beat the Fuujin out with a rensen) can usually be punished on reaction with a 2K, 2H, or 623P, and the fan one can just be blocked. Block low until you see the startup animation after Fuujin, however, because the S followup is fast. Make sure you're punishing on reaction, however, as you'll want be ready if he tries to do the K followup, in which case you can typically throw him before he can throw you. Dealing with butterfly rushdown is also remarkably easy with tools like rensen for far away, Raeisageki or simply j.S at mid-range, and 623P or 2K close in. Or just get out of its range and watch it fizzle and die like the weak fireball it is, while still keeping up your long-range offense. Think of it as a stun edge, except slower, less range, and no threat behind it.

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Axl's best matchup, marginally beating out I-No and HOS for that title. It's just that Anji loses most of his tools against Axl. Far-reaching lows kill autoguard, large active frames mess up Fuujin invincibility, and Shitsu isn't a threat because of Axl's range. Also notable is Housoubako as a one-frame option to things like the FB fuujin followup.

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Axl's best matchup, marginally beating out I-No and HOS for that title.

It's just that Anji loses most of his tools against Axl. Far-reaching lows kill autoguard, large active frames mess up Fuujin invincibility, and Shitsu isn't a threat because of Axl's range. Also notable is Housoubako as a one-frame option to things like the FB fuujin followup.

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And is even better!!

The 2 hits chains destroy almost every autoguard that anji have, 2HS kills fuujin, the fb follow up can be countered, blocked for later punisment or SBed.

In anji's favor if he can get into axl thats where he beats it BUT get close to axl is a mayor problem for anji.

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As a fellow Anji player, I just look at this matchup and cry tears of sadness that may never be quelmed. Honestly, between this and May, I wonder why people still play Anji.

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As a fellow Anji player, I just look at this matchup and cry tears of sadness that may never be quelmed.

Honestly, between this and May, I wonder why people still play Anji.

Because it's still winnable? Lime Key OCV'ed Shoot's team this years SBO.

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I actually find this matchup to be really fun even though its pretty lopsided.

I dread Testament and May far, far more, actually. :psyduck:

Because decent Testament and May players are a dime a dozen compared to the number of competent Axls.

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So, I just saw the Lime Key vs. Shoot fight, and it's apparent that Shoot was just plain off during the match. For example, in the first match, he gets killed by trying for a close-range 2H after blocking a RCed Fuujin S follow-up, then trying to beat out Anji's oki with S Benten. Then, in the third round, he Rensen FRCs and immediately drops the combo. Those are more or less the biggest offenders, though he makes more silly mistakes throughout. This isn't to undermine Lime Key's skill, because he was clearly on the ball the whole time. But seriously, those are mistakes I would've made. :psyduck:

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What makes this match hard for Anji players is the fact that you have to dedicate yourself to the few options you have to get in on axl.

Anji does have aerial options against Axl when he is on the ground. Anji's superjump is very fast, and very good against axl.

Anji's ground options are small though. Mostly they are Fuujin.

As has been stated already 2HS does screw fuujin over. Luckily though pretty much every other poke axl has doesn't beat fuujin. This leaves Anji many more options than you think. It becomes a game of guard low and watch out for 6HS which is easily 6K'd by anji for either an autoguard cancel or perhaps a combo if you know what you are doing. Forcing your opponent to constantly be in fear of Fuujin is a big factor in this fight.

Another fact that makes Axl not so tough is if Axl decides to pressure Anji he must do it wisely and differently than most characters. Once again Fuujin is very applicable here just because Axl's pressure isn't that great, and there are plenty of moves axl normally uses in pressure that are easily Fuujin'd for a nice combo. 3P(Or is it 3S? I'm not sure but I bet you know what I'm talking about), Raesengaki(Sp?), 2D, 2K and 5K all have these huge openings where you can just Fuujin them away.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AyEUw4G5Og&feature=channel_page

This is a semi-casual match that I played during the weekend of SBO. As you can see there are a couple of things I do quite frequently against Axl. There is a lot of prediction in this fight for Anji. One fuck up though and it's easy to get your ass kicked. A lot easier for Anji to lose this match than Axl that's for sure.

2S for Anji is one of his very important tools against Axl. This pretty much says no to all of Axl's reversal options if spaced properly and leads to a full combo due to lack of proration on 2S. Really once Anji has Axl in the corner, or under butterfly pressure he doesn't have a lot of options. A smart Anji player can make an axl look stupid.

Input about the match-up, well I think it's so bad because:

1. Axl does more damage than Anji hands down. Axl can do decent amounts of damage without use of Tension too.

2. If Axl lands one of these combos, he gets corner setup and a second combo normally means death for Anji.

3. If Axl loses lockdown, his lengthy pokes shrinks the neutral ground to almost nothing. This is bad for Anji.

4. Unfortunately Anji's ways of getting inside on Axl are tired and predictable. With a skilled Anji and a skilled Axl player it turns into a game of "Wait until Axl comes in on me, or until Axl fucks up."

5. Once Anji does get control, one wrong guess will put you back into either a position of neutrality, or disadvantage. High Risk/Reward has always been part of Anji's game and Axl just doesn't give Anji a chance to take as many of those risks.

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The names are kinda unclear but... please tell me that's not the Chickenfat we know and love! That guy jumps around and gives up pressure so much, it's no wonder you're not that afraid of him. Anyway, I'd disagree with being able to Fuujin through things. A lot of those moves are only fuujin-able if they're used certain ways (For example, not in real blockstrings, 3P is especially a sketchy one to mention, as it's a great option to bait stuff like that, since the entire move is only a couple frames shorter than Fuujin's startup), and Axl can really adjust his pressure very easily to deal with Anji (Though no Rashousen, kids, sorry.) I wish this wasn't the case, but Anji is just pretty much free for an Axl player of equal skill. I've even played some Anjis that I'd consider way better than myself, and won pretty handily due to this matchup being so stupid. Because when it comes down to it, Anji really DOES have to make Axl afraid of Fuujin, but he just can't really effectively do it, since Axl has a lot of ways to make Anji hurt real bad without putting himself at risk of getting Fuujin'd (See: 2H, j.S, being really far away, just standing still, fast counter, f.S/3P/AA zoning, etc.). Sure, Axl has to be played weird for this to work, but once you get past the fact that fighting Anji isn't 100% generic, it's still a really disgustingly easy matchup. Much like HOS, you can honestly just sit back and wait for Anji to do something, counter accordingly (Smash his approach before it gets a chance to hit you), then keep up your Oki/pressure until he dies. SlyMoogle hits it right on when he says Anji has a prediction game on his hands, but for Axl, this game can almost all be reaction.

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Yeah that's Chickenfat. You must remember this is back in August and at the time we had been playing a lot of guilty gear with each other.

Crews fighting each other is always strange.

We know what's up.

As far as 3P goes, I've reaction fuujin'd it enough times during pressure to know it can be done easily.

But here's the thing I want from the axl player that you're talking about and doing.

2H etc. all have answers and I'm forcing you to commit to one of those answers.

Like 2HS for example isn't that scary if Anji can IB it, he has options.

It's the same thing with all of Axl's anti-anji game. There are things you can do to get in, and it takes a lot of work, but once you get in, you are like "Fuck Axl"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34lBCvsvmPQ

Take Lime-Key for example. He is very patient, and waits for opportune moments to punish shoot.

As far as this match being all reaction for axl... I don't know about that one.

Anyway, enough of this. Perhaps one day you and I shall play.

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Errr... First: I think TheSlyMoogle is not too sure about this match up and doesn't have a lot of experience, here in my country we have a very very top player with anji and I know very well this match up and one thing axl have against fuujin is almost everything that hits low if is well timed. 3P is a special move in this match up since is frame advantage and fucks fuujin and led to a big time combo and can mess anji's low auto guards. The only tools for anji here is 6S(the big fan that has auto guard) that can hit axl air approach and chains, but if is abused too much is means death to anji. So the key here is just let anji do anything he wants in the end anything after a fuujin HS is punishible, so anji have to do LOTS and LOTS of mind game here. Another thing is anji can presure that much, I found that if I do FD long enough anji is pushed back so I can 2HS and fuck his ass, I don't know if is a player thing but so far it worked to perfection.

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Errr... First:

I think TheSlyMoogle is not too sure about this match up and doesn't have a lot of experience, here in my country we have a very very top player with anji and I know very well this match up and one thing axl have against fuujin is almost everything that hits low if is well timed.

Er, don't count SlyMoogle out so fast. I'm pretty sure TenKai (Especially Morehead) is a much stronger and more thriving scene than the Dominican Republic, sir. No offense.

3P is a special move in this match up since is frame advantage and fucks fuujin and led to a big time combo and can mess anji's low auto guards.

Eh, it's true that it's a good move, but its usage isn't that different from other matchups.

The only tools for anji here is 6S(the big fan that has auto guard) that can hit axl air approach and chains, but if is abused too much is means death to anji.

Anji's got a lot of tools, actually, it's just that they're not that dangerous. I'd say 6K, 3K, 6P, and just plain AA 5P are pretty good for keeping Axl out. (Just not good enough. ;))

So the key here is just let anji do anything he wants in the end anything after a fuujin HS is punishible, so anji have to do LOTS and LOTS of mind game here.

Nah, if Anji's gonna fuck you up, it's going to be once you let him do stuff. I say it's better to be on the offensive or far away (Whereas in many matchups you just plain want to be on the offensive all the time), and the mindset of letting Anji do something will eventually mean you taking damage.

Another thing is anji can presure that much, I found that if I do FD long enough anji is pushed back so I can 2HS and fuck his ass, I don't know if is a player thing but so far it worked to perfection.

I disagree. In a lot of matchups, you want to FD and try to get either a jump or a f.S out to break pressure, but this isn't one of them. Anji is a character you really want to be IBing and waiting on. I'd say a well placed 2K or IB-->Throw is going to get you out of pressure more than anything else here. Maybe the occasional housou in a blockstring, but FDing won't help much, since Fuujin can beat the pushback, and Anji can bait/beat stuff pretty decently with autoguards (Again, 6K and 3K are strong tools).

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Yeah that's Chickenfat. You must remember this is back in August and at the time we had been playing a lot of guilty gear with each other.

Crews fighting each other is always strange.

We know what's up.

True dat.

As far as 3P goes, I've reaction fuujin'd it enough times during pressure to know it can be done easily.

Eh, I understand that, but I'd like to know the situations you're talking about specifically, since you really would have to Fuujin within 2 frames of it starting to win out (IE Axl can't just block, even if he doesn't hit you). Like I said, there are definitely things in this match Axl can't do that he normally can, but it's still a pretty good tool for this match.

But here's the thing I want from the axl player that you're talking about and doing.

2H etc. all have answers and I'm forcing you to commit to one of those answers.

Like 2HS for example isn't that scary if Anji can IB it, he has options.

2H should be done on reaction to Fuujin or running. It gets out fast enough to be a real problem (of course no move is perfect. If Anji is fast and running he can jump it, but it's surprisingly fast to recover, so not that unsafe.) It is MOST DEFINITELY a strong solution to an approaching fuujin, even if Anji IB'd one of Axl's moves to get said Fuujin, since a lot of moves gatling into it. 5H is also a strong option, and carries the advantage of beating a lot of jump-ins, since it's got a very large hitbox and a few frames of upper-body invuln. Also, I dunno your playstyle, but a fairly competent Anji over here has historically had trouble following up IBing 2H, largely because although Fuujin's invuln makes it hard to get something out after recovering, the gatling to 6H (Which has a lot of active frames and counterhits for a fat chunk of damage) is a pretty viable way to beat it, albeit a predictive one.

It's the same thing with all of Axl's anti-anji game. There are things you can do to get in, and it takes a lot of work, but once you get in, you are like "Fuck Axl"

Eh. I agree to some extent, but Anji reeeeeally has to work at cracking Axl even once he's in close, since a well placed 2K or housou can fuck you up pretty bad, and fuujin followups are fairly easy to react to. Like any tough matchup, it's not unwinnable, but it takes a ton of patience and a good deal of outsmarting to pull off.

As far as this match being all reaction for axl... I don't know about that one.

Well, maybe I exaggerate a bit, but moreso than a lot of matches.

Anyway, enough of this. Perhaps one day you and I shall play.

Hopefully soon! You going to be anywhere near the inauguration?

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Errr... First:

I think TheSlyMoogle is not too sure about this match up and doesn't have a lot of experience, here in my country we have a very very top player with anji and I know very well this match up and one thing axl have against fuujin is almost everything that hits low if is well timed

Uhm I've played a very good axl player for pretty much every day for the past 6 months. I didn't say Axl's lows didn't fuck Anji. Hopefully an intelligent Anji players isn't exactly throwing Fuujin 24/7. Fuujin is this tool we use to create massive amounts of fear. We rarely use that tool once we get that fear though. Almost any active normal can destroy Fuujin if you use it wrong. It's 14 frames of invincibility are only on startup and it has another like 28 frames before it activates after that. Fuujin can and will be fucked with. A lot. But it's still pretty much what you have to work with in terms of fear factor.

Anji is all High risk/moderate reward. Take it or leave it.

Another thing is anji can presure that much, I found that if I do FD long enough anji is pushed back so I can 2HS and fuck his ass, I don't know if is a player thing but so far it worked to perfection.

This sir is about the worst thing you could ever do against Anji. If I see you doing that I'm going to pressure you until your guard bar is cranked and the moment i see you doing that 2H stuff I'm going to 214 K you and pick up a combo that will do at least 70% thanks to free guard bar crank. :D

FDing puts you at a major frame disadvantage. Anji has way too many moves that bring him right back in your face. So many blockstrings to use if you are FDing.

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oh crap.....i was rather jumpy then!lol!that weekend was epicness btw!as far as the match up,FDing away is definetley bad news bears.its all about well timed(well,most of the time unless its like 2HS) lows and knowing when fujin is active and when its vulnerable after startup.i think any variety of 3p,2hs,2p even give anji a bit of trouble in my opinion after playing sly and zidane.ecspecially sly over the past 6 months now.(cant believe is been so long ago looking at that vid!)

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