[CS2] Ragna CS1 -> CS2 Changelog

[Veteru]

Ragna Continuum Shift -> Continuum Shift II Changes

Hitbox Changes

Image courtesy of Tong

http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/5619/boxescopy.jpg

Frame Data Changes

Ragna Continuum Shift Frame Data: http://dustloop.com/guides/bbcs/frameData/ragna.html

Ragna Continuum Shift II Frame Data: http://dustloop.com/guides/bbcs2/frameData/ragna.html

5A

General proration 82 -> 84

Attack Level 0 -> 1

FAdv -2 -> +0

Untechable 10F -> 14F

Gauge 82

5B

Damage 640 -> 540

General proration 90 -> 89

Guard ALL -> High/Low

Untechable 17F -> 19F

70% repeat proration removed

Gauge 223

5C

Damage 710 -> 690

General proration 85 -> 92

Guard ALL -> High/Low

Attack Level 3 -> 4

Startup 12F -> 13F

Active 5F -> 4F

FAdv -8 -> -5

Untechable 17F -> 19F

70% repeat proration removed

Gauge 285

5D

Damage 680,950 -> 544,760

General proration 92,75 -> 92,80

Guard ALL -> High/Low,ALL

Attack Level 4 -> 4,5

FAdv -26 -> -24

Untechable 30,37 -> 30,38

50% repeat proration added to second hit

Second hit has 14F hitstop (This isn't new, but it means the hitstop does not correspond to the new attack level)

Lifesteal 0,100 -> 0,200

Gauge 225,314

BK5D

Damage 760,1280 -> 750,1000

General proration 92,70 -> 92,80

Guard ALL -> High/Low,ALL

Attack Level 4 -> 4,5

Startup 13F -> 17F

Active 5(13)1 -> 5(12)1

FAdv -26 -> -24

Counterhit state 59F -> 62F

Untechable 30,36 -> 30,50

50% repeat proration added to second hit

Lifesteal 0,200 -> (0,150 on hit)/(0,120 on guard)

Gauge 310,414

2A

General proration 82 -> 84

Attack Level 0 -> 1

FAdv -2 -> 0

Untechable 10F -> 14F

Gauge 62

2B

Damage 480 -> 400

Guard Low/Air -> Low

Attack Level 1 -> 2

FAdv -5 -> -3

Untechable 12F -> 14F

Gauge 165

2C

Damage 780 -> 660

Guard ALL -> High/Low

Untechable 17F -> 20F

Stagger on counterhit 28F -> 29F

Gauge 273

2D

General proration 75 -> 94

Guard Low/Air -> Low

Attack Level 4 -> 5

Recovery 32F -> 23F

FAdv -15 -> -4

Counterhit state 35F -> 31F

???

Hitstop 14F (This isn't new, but it means the hitstop does not correspond to the new attack level)

Lifesteal 100 -> 200

No longer removes a guard primer

Gauge 310

BK2D

Damage 1250 -> 1050

Guard Low/Air -> Low

Attack Level 4 -> 5

Recovery 32F -> 23F

FAdv -15 -> -4

Counterhit state 35F -> 31F

Untechable 46 -> 54

Lifesteal (300 on hit, 200 on guard) -> (150 on hit, 120 on guard)

No longer removes a guard primer

Gauge 434

6A

Initial proration 70 -> 80

General proration 89 -> 80

Startup 14F -> 13F

Active 6F -> 4F

FAdv -7 -> -5

Counterhit state 25F -> 22F

Head Attribute invincibility 5~16 -> 5~13

Hit area reaches above Ragna's head during the final 3F (17~19) -> final 2F (15~16)

70% repeat proration removed

Gauge 256

6B

Initial proration 80 -> 70

General proration 89 -> 92

Guard High/Air -> High

Attack Level 3 -> 4

FAdv -6 -> -4

Untechable 17F -> 19F

Gauge 298

6C

Damage 640,740 -> 512,608

General proration 89 -> 92

Guard Low/Air,ALL -> Low,High/Low

Attack Level 3 -> 4

Startup 18F -> 20F

FAdv -18 -> -16

Counterhit state 56F -> 58F

Untechable 17F,50F -> 19F,50F

On hit or guard, can cancel into dash from 19~56 -> 21~58

Gauge 211,251

3C

Initial proration 100 -> 90

General proration 84 -> 88

Guard Low/Air -> Low

Extended knockdown against grounded opponents -> extended knockdown on counterhit

70% repeat proration removed

Gauge 298

6D

Initial proration 80 -> 100

General proration 92 -> 94

Attack Level 4 -> 5

FAdv -16 -> -14

Untechable 19F -> 21F

Lifesteal 100 -> 200

Gauge 310

BK6D

Damage 1250 -> 1000

Initial proration 80 -> 100

General proration 92 -> 89

Attack Level 4 -> 5

Recovery 13+15 -> 16+16

FAdv -12 -> -14

Lifesteal (400 on hit, 200 on guard) -> (150 on hit, 120 on guard)

Gauge 414

jA

General proration 82 -> 84

Attack Level 0 -> 1

Untechable 10F -> 14F

Gauge 74

jB

Damage 560 -> 450

Initial proration 100 -> 90

General proration 84 -> 86

Attack Level 1 -> 2

Gauge 186

jC

Damage 760 -> 620

Gauge 256

jD

Damage 680 -> 590

General proration 80 -> 89

Attack Level 4 -> 3

Untechable 19F -> 17F

3F recovery after landing

Gauge 244

BKjD

Damage 1400 -> 900

Attack Level 4 -> 3

Active 4F -> 3F

3F recovery after landing

Lifesteal (250 on hit, 60 on guard) -> 50

???

Gauge 372

B+C

No longer special cancellable

Damage 800 -> 1400

Initial proration 100 -> 90

General proration 65 -> 55

Range 80 -> 100

Untechable 34 -> 100*

Second hit causes wallbound, untechable for 60F after wallbound

Gauge 579

4B+C

No longer special cancellable

Damage 800 -> 700

Initial proration 100 -> 90

General proration 60 -> 55

Range 80 -> 100

Gauge 289

jB+C

Damage 800 -> 1400

General proration 65 -> 55

Untechable 60F -> 80F

"Hitstop 0F" removed (or it may be an omission?)

Y-Axis range: -60~160 -> -60~280

Gauge 579

Dashcancel: Unchanged

CounterAssault

General proration 82 -> 92

Attack Level 0 -> 4

Active 10F -> 19F

Counterhit state 21F -> 30F

Untechable 10F -> 19F

Cooldown 180F

Fully extended by 3rd active frame

Gauge 0

Hells Fang

Counterhit state: 21F after active frames (Not actually a change, just listed differently)

Gauge 302

Hells Fang+:

Gauge 786

BK Hells Fang+:

Damage 1150 -> 1200

General proration 92 -> 100*

Recovery 40F -> 25F

FAdv -24 -> -9

Untechable 56F -> 80F

Hitstop 16F -> 20F

60% repeat proration added

Gauge 993

C Inferno Divider

Active 2(4)12 -> 2(4)6

Recovery 18F+19F -> 24F+19F

Invincible 1~21 -> 1~18

Cancel into followup on hit from 13~ -> 13~36

CH hitstop 14F

Gauge 173,190

C Inferno Divider (Air)

Initial proration 70 -> 85

Active 2(4)12 -> 2(4)6

Invincible 1~19 -> 1~16

Cancel into followup on hit from 11~ -> 11~34

CH hitstop 14F

???

Gauge 173,190

D Inferno Divider

Damage 440,440 -> 600,600

Startup 9F -> 7F

Invincible 6~17 REMOVED

Airborn 12F~ -> 10F~

Cancel into followup on hit from 15~ -> 13~36

CH hitstop 14F

Gauge 248,248

D Inferno Divider (Air):

Damage 440,440 -> 600,600

Active 2(4)12 -> 2(3)12

Counterhit state 51F -> 50F

Invincible 5~15 REMOVED

Cancel into followup on hit from 13~ -> 12~35

CH hitstop 14F

Gauge 248,248

BK D Inferno Divider:

Damage 720,720 -> 650,650

Startup 9F -> 7F

Invincible 6~17 REMOVED

Airborn 12F~ -> 10F~

60% repeat proration added

Cancel into followup on hit from 13~ -> 13~36

Lifesteal (250,100 on hit)/(100,100 on guard) -> (100,100 on hit)/(60,60 on guard)

Gauge 269,269

BK D Inferno Divider (Air):

Damage 720,720 -> 650,650

Active 2(4)12 -> 2(3)12

Counterhit state 51F -> 50F

Invincible 5~15 REMOVED

60% repeat proration added

Cancel into followup on hit from 13~ -> 12~35

Lifesteal (250,100 on hit)/(100,100 on guard) -> (100,100 on hit)/(60,60 on guard)

Gauge 269,269

Upper:

Counterhit state 43F -> 42F

Can cancel into followup on hit or guard until 43F -> from 15~25

Gauge 128

Yoko Fukitobashi

General proration 65 -> 70

Recovery after landing 15F -> 12F

Untechable 60F -> 18F*

Untechable 55F after wall bound

Repeat proration 10%

Gauge 165

Kakato Otoshi:

General proration 92 -> 50

Recovery 17F (+13F after landing) -> Until landing (+13F after landing)

Counterhit state while airborn -> entire duration

Untechable 38F -> 50F

Cannot emergency tech -> Floor bound

Gauge 198

BK Kakato Otoshi:

Damage 480 -> 1000

General proration 92 -> 90*

Recovery 17F -> 11F

Untechable 38F -> 60F

Cannot emergency tech -> Floor bound

60% repeat proration

Lifesteal 150 on guard -> 200 on guard

Gauge 414

Gauntlet Hades:

Damage 950 -> 800

Counterhit state entire duration -> 40F

Cancel into followup from 30~ -> 30~40

Gauge 331

Gauntlet Hades (Air):

Damage 750 -> 700

Initial proration 100 -> 90

Counterhit state entire duration -> 40F

Cancel into followup from 30~ -> 30~40

Gauge 331

Keri Age

Damage 650 -> 550

General proration 75 -> 60*

FAdv -13 -> -12

Untechable 45F -> 51F

Gauge 227

BK Keri Age

Damage 1150 -> 1100

General proration 75 -> 90*

FAdv -13 -> -12

Untechable 45F -> 70F

Gauge 455

Dead Spike

Damage 700 -> 1000

Initial proration 80 -> 100

General proration 92 -> 96*

Startup 32F -> 28F

Active 3F -> 12F

Recovery 23F -> 15F

FAdv +5 -> +3

Counterhit state 47F -> 43F

Untechable 27F -> 36F

Special launch on air hit

Added repeat proration 60%

Hitstop 6F -> ???(Hitstop value no longer listed)

Fully extended by 8th active frame?

Gauge 414

BK Dead Spike

Damage 400x3 -> 600x3

General proration 92 -> 96(once)*

Active 1,1,2 -> 12F

Recovery 23F -> 15F

FAdv -1 -> +5

Counterhit state 47F -> 43F

Untechable 27F -> 50F

Hitstun vs grounded opponent 25F -> Hitstun 32F

Guardstun 23F(Unlisted) -> Guardstun 23F

Special launch on air hit

Added repeat proration 60%

Fully extended by 8th active frame?

Gauge 248 (x3?)

MOJZ

FAdv +9 -> +5*

Untechable -- -> 12,19

Second hit staggers for unlisted value -> Second hit staggers for 30F

Added repeat proration 5%

Bonus proration 120%

Can be used while opponent is downed -> Can be used while opponent is downed, or after hitting an airborn opponent with 3C

Gauge 165

Berial Edge

Damage (300,250xn,100) -> 600,100xn

Initial proration 90 -> 75

General proration 85,80xn -> 90(once)*

Startup 8F -> 15F

Active 4(10), until landing: ((3)3)xn -> until landing: ((1)1)xn

Recovery 12F -> 16F

FAdv -2 -> +1

Untechable (25, 25xn, 50) -> 44*

Repeat proration 60% -> 10%

???

Gauge 248,41xn

Carnage Scissor

Damage 1000,2100 -> 1000,2300

General proration 92,60 -> 92*

Startup 9+4~12 -> 9+7~12

Recovery 30F -> 64F

FAdv -15 -> -49

Untechable 60,52 -> 90,80

Second hit wall bound -> 2nd hit knocks opponent across the screen

Repeat proration 20%

Guaranteed damage 20% -> 30%

Cooldown 180F

Gauge (230,529) [parenthesis probably indicates it's the base value from which the target's meter gain is calculated]

BK Carnage Scissor

Damage 1000,3000 -> 1000,2300

General proration 92,60 -> 92*

Startup 9+4~12 -> 9+7~12

Recovery 30F -> 64F

FAdv -15 -> -49

Untechable 60,52 -> 90,80

Second hit wall bound -> 2nd hit knocks opponent across the screen

Repeat proration 20%

Guaranteed damage 20% -> 30%

Cooldown 180F

Lifesteal (1000 on hit, 600 on guard) -> (400 on hit, 200 on guard)

Gauge (230,529) [parenthesis probably indicates it's the base value from which the opponent's meter gain is calculated]

Blood Kain

Cooldown 450F

Yami ni Kuwarero

Untechable 100F -> 19F,100F

Guaranteed damage 0 -> 25%

Lifesteal 1500

Gauge (1380) [parenthesis probably indicates it's the base value from which the opponent's meter gain is calculated]

Black Onslaught

Cooldown 180F

[WolfCrimson]

Woohoo CS2 frame data! Thanks a billion Veteru!

Hey mods, hurry up and sticky this thread (and delete my post)

[Chsal]

What does "Gauge" refer to?

Because most moves have 100~200 gauge and I'm sure as hell it isn't Heat O.o...

[LuminAbyss]

What does "Gauge" refer to?

I was wondering this is well. It has to do with heat gain, doesn't it?

Also, with counter assaults level increase, does that mean combos after it will be possible (provided they're close enough)?

[Agent P]

Maybe is just me, but those numbers dont look quite good. I mean for example, what!? they also nerfed his invinsible frames in ID? and those prorations with his already limited/predictable mixups looks just... oh well.

I really want to try this game just to see if im still gonna be able to play with Ragna properly.

[a Lisianthus]

Dead Spike

Damage 700 -> 1000

Initial proration 80 -> 100

General proration 92 -> 96*

Startup 32F -> 28F

Active 3F -> 12F

Recovery 23F -> 15F

FAdv +5 -> +3

Counterhit state 47F -> 43F

Untechable 27F -> 36F

Special launch on air hit

Added repeat proration 60%

Hitstop 6F -> ???(Hitstop value no longer listed)

Fully extended by 8th active frame?

Gauge 414

is frame adv supposed to be +3 in CS2 or +13? seems like it'd be +13 according to that data

[Nini Heart]

+13 on block is just silly. It's probably correct at +3.

I'll see if I can find the scans to check though, this has piqued my curiosity.

[KayEff]

Dead Spike has 23F of guardstun (judging that Dead Spike BK has 23F of guardstun as well, this part was taken from translations), and Dead Spike has a 54F duration.

54F - 28F (startup) = 26F

26F - 23F = 3F

[WolfCrimson]

Dead Spike has 23F of guardstun (judging that Dead Spike BK has 23F of guardstun as well, this part was taken from translations), and Dead Spike has a 54F duration.

54F - 28F (startup) = 26F

26F - 23F = 3F

Wait... if the recovery for DS is 26 frames, and the guardstun the opponent is in is 23 frames, wouldn't that make DS's frame (dis)advantage -3?

I'm getting confused here. Was the frame advantage listed in the mook or is it something you (the translator) calculated yourself?

[WolfCrimson]

Also; I've figured out what "cooldown" is (listed with BK, CS). It's the time needed for normal heat gain to resume. It's 2 seconds for CS and 7.5 secs for BK.

[The Katz]

Maybe is just me, but those numbers dont look quite good. I mean for example, what!? they also nerfed his invinsible frames in ID? and those prorations with his already limited/predictable mixups looks just... oh well.

I really want to try this game just to see if im still gonna be able to play with Ragna properly.

Bold 1: It's long due. It needs a hitbox fix too, if you ask me.

Bold 2: I feel ya. Damage off of mix-up doesn't seem likely too often.

Bold 3: Congrats if you can. I doubt over 60% of the Ragna mains will be able to. :P

[LuminAbyss]

Well, as far as the invincibility goes, for going through most pressure or reacting to most moves, wouldn't 18 frames be enough?

Congrats if you can. I doubt over 60% of the Ragna mains will be able to. :P

I don't know, I keep seeing more Ragna's pop up in CS2. He seems to be more popular now xD

[KayEff]

Wait... if the recovery for DS is 26 frames, and the guardstun the opponent is in is 23 frames, wouldn't that make DS's frame (dis)advantage -3?

I'm getting confused here. Was the frame advantage listed in the mook or is it something you (the translator) calculated yourself?

+3 is what the mook said, although given what it says in the notes it doesn't calculate right. It shouldn't even be positive at all.

[FlyingVe]

The math on DS has didn't add up correctly in the CS1 mook either, curious.

[a Lisianthus]

if DS is only +3 then you have 1 frame leniency to jump out and barrier a 5b.. that's pretty bad lol

[LuminAbyss]

if DS is only +3 then you have 1 frame leniency to jump out and barrier a 5b.. that's pretty bad lol

Right, but whenever people try to do anything that isn't stand there and keep blocking, they get stuffed.

[Beautiful Death]

+3, +5, whatever. It's good enough.

Anyway. I really like the fact that some of his attacks got +1 to attack level. Seriously. A character like Litchi has a level one jab but an in-your-face rushdown dude like Ragna only has level 0 jabs? Weird. I also found it odd that his 2B and JB had such low attack levels. Now it's all good.

But.....Inferno D has NO invincibility at all? Huh. Guess it's strictly combo fodder now. Oh well.

What else.....Dead Spike got massively better proration....I think we all knew that with the way his combos are. Well, guess the dead spike combos wouldn’t tell you about the 100! P1. As if THAT matters. It’s not like you’re going to be getting a hit with dead spike very often.

2D. I though it was just plain awful looking at the location test stuff since you couldn't combo off of a 2D without meter AND it didn't break primer....but now it has considerably better proration and went from being -12 billion to just -4? Lol pretty darn drastic. Pretty a-ok all around. I think I like this version better. Now if only it would break primer lolz. Would be way too good.

Also, unless I'm reading wrong once again, it looks like his throw range was buffed up. Too good. Better frame data is exactly what Ragna needs. Dunno if he'll be top tier or anything, but maybe I'll stick around for him. I just can't get over the level one jabs. Super dooper awesome.

Hmmmm. I can't know for sure, but I think that with 2A being level one combined with the instant block nerf might mean that Ragna's 2A's would be a faultless blockstring in itself. 5A obviously would be too, but that doesn't matter. Mmmmm. Wish I had CS2. I've gotta spin the new Dudena round.

Thanks for putting the farm data up Veteru. You're the Boss.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

I don't know, I keep seeing more Ragna's pop up in CS2. He seems to be more popular now xD

I'm curious about this. A friend of mine did his study abroad in Japan last year and he told me that the two most popular characters in CS1, the ones he always saw getting played in the arcades, were Ragna and Hazama. Now, the popular theory about Japanese vids online is that they often only upload matches that they feel are interesting. So, theoretically, if Ragna is significantly weaker in CS2, and is not able to win as often, they'd probably upload MORE matches of him, instead of less.

But again, it's just a theory.

[FlyingVe]

Am I the only one that noticed DS now has 12 active frames? Now I know why players are using it as a meaty so much. In addition to stopping roles and comboing on normal hit, every frame more meaty it hits makes that +3 even bigger. Even if you hit with the middle of it, thats +9.

Edit: Also, BE is +1, could be semi-viable as an approach. Chance your timing and trajectory. Probably useful against the zoners.

[LuminAbyss]

Sweet, I like using BE as a quick drop down approach on people already, the +1 frame advantage is much welcomed (as opposed to the safe unless IB'd -2 in CS1)

Wait Ve, could you explain that about the Deadspike active frames? Each active frame gives another +3? I didn't quite understand.

@Titanium: That would sound like a logical reason. But I've also seen a video of Ragna winning a tourney (Here's one from February, though this was early on), so really it could be he's winning more AND he's more interesting to watch. We'll have to wait and see.

[Agent P]

Sweet, I like using BE as a quick drop down approach on people already, the +1 frame advantage is much welcomed (as opposed to the safe unless IB'd -2 in CS1)

Wait Ve, could you explain that about the Deadspike active frames? Each active frame gives another +3? I didn't quite understand.

@Titanium: That would sound like a logical reason. But I've also seen a video of Ragna winning a tourney (Here's one from February, though this was early on), so really it could be he's winning more AND he's more interesting to watch. We'll have to wait and see.

Yep that sounds logical for me too. Still I dont see Ragna wins that often, specially against Noel and Makoto because is easier for them to make comebacks thanks to their insane damage from everywhere with no requirements at all, man I have saw so many videos where one mistake of an almost full life Ragna, who was also playing better than his opponent, ended in a insane/easyToPull Noel/Mak combo that leave him almost dead but thats another topic.

I also saw the +1 in BE, and also use it as an approach tool already in CS, mainly because not many people are expecting it and I try to do as many mixups variants as possible, after all Ragna is already that predictable as it is. Even in CS, if you lose against Ragna, you really deserve the lose, I mean he is one of the more easy, if not the easyer, characteres to read.

I didnt saw that BK Carnage Scissor does the same damage as a normal Carnage Scissor. is this true? wtf!? I guess they really want to force us to use the lame Yami ni Kuwarero. Why is its damage not listed? Im curious lol

DS active frames are now confusing me too lol, explain, explain lol

[Chsal]

every frame more meaty it hits makes that +3 even bigger

I think he meant every frame later you hit with it, that +3 becomes more significant/noticeable, not that every later frame would add an extra +3.

As in, hitting with DS 1 frame later would change it to +4 and so forth.

By the way, somebody explain to me why BK has less lifesteal than nonBK?

[FlyingVe]

Wait Ve, could you explain that about the Deadspike active frames? Each active frame gives another +3? I didn't quite understand.

Sure. SD or frame advantage is calculated assuming the move hits on the first active frame. So, if you were to only make contact with the final active frame, you would start recovering sooner while the enemy would be beginning his guard stun later, actively giving you more frame advantage. In the past DS only had 3 active frames, so it was hard to hit meaty with it, but 12 is alot, this is probably the main reason why you see everyone use it as for oki so often now as that's the situation where hitting meaty is easiest, in addition to stopping role and being safe.

Math wise, if you hit on frame 2, it would have one more frame of advantage than the default, so, +4. In my example, hitting with the middle of the move, or frame 6, it would be +9. Of course hitting meaty with the move in situations outside of oki is tricky in this game.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

There are a fair number of positive changes, but the negative ones seem to present a pretty middling result.

I like that 5C is only 1 frame slower and lost 1 active frame, compared with all the buffs it got. There are a lot of little changes that look nice on paper, like 5D 2nd hit being level 5 now. That makes 5D DC only -2 on normal guard and -5 on IB. Some characters simply won't be able to punish it anymore. His A attacks being raised to level 1 is not a huge buff, but it's a welcome change that will hopefully make his pressure a little more viable. 2B going to level 2 is pretty good too, it takes some of the silly mindgames out of say, the Hazama matchup (no more IB -> Jayoku against 2B, so 5B-2B is a solid, safe string against him, if spaced right).

WTF is up with 6B initial proration getting nerfed? Wow, as if 6B was overpowered. Removal of invincibility on DID is silly too, but I guess their logic was that most players weren't using it outside of combos anyway, so it was redundant. Too bad.

[WolfCrimson]

At least D ID got a big damage buff, it's 600+600 now.