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Axl v. Slayer

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Slayer:

Overview:

Slayer is a scary character to fight no matter who you are. His incredible priority and huge damage output make getting hit an unhappy prospect. In addition, Slayer has a lot of weird ways around Axl's normal tools that make life a little more difficult. Still, a lot of Slayer's tricks can be thwarted by mere patience and decent reaction time, and the same tools that seemed ineffective when thrown out first can completely shut Slayer down if thrown out second, and as always, Axl does well once he's on the offensive.

Zoning and AA, and why Slayer is something entirely different:

I say "don't throw shit out randomly" a lot, but this applies double for Slayer. BBU, BDC K Mappa, DoT, 6P, and DHD all beat 5P at max range pretty easily, and Slayer's ridiculous 2H is practically an end-all, be-all answer to anything you can do in terms of low pokes. Additionally, if j.H has time to get active, it will beat 5P, and 6K with no problem at basically any range, and 2S at about half-range and closer. Slayer can BDC, or, for that matter, just forward dash through Rashousen, Rensen, f.S, and 3P. Even 2K can be beat out by 2H or Slayer's 2K without much problem. So when zoning slayer, your first priority is to be out of Slayer's surprisingly long effective low range, meaning out of the range of 2H. 2D reaches farther, but it's also a lot slower, and you should be defaulting to low block anyway. From here, you move into the next phase:

Guessing games:

At mid-range, this is a very defensive game. You must master the ancient Axl secret of sitting still and waiting for something to happen. If Slayer doesn't have the meter to DoT you, you can go back to zoning with some far-range games with j.S, 2H, and 2P fairly comfortably. If you play guessing games with Slayer, you're potentially risking a good giant chunk of your life for guessing wrong. On the other hand, you could end up with a round-deciding hit if you guess right. In order to win guessing games with Slayer, however, you have to keep track of space, and how much meter Slayer has, and what you can do to beat things he does. Basically, you can beat any low with 6H. BBU loses to any low hit, but is safer to just block and punish. A forward dash will lose to anything with high active frame counts (you should be able to do 2H or 2D on reaction, 6H is a risker option). 2H is a decent option against Dandy steps, but it's better to just block those. If your reaction time is super-fast, Housou works against Mappa, BBU, and Dandy steps other than Crosswise Heel. If you're feeling lucky, K mappa can lose to even a fairly late 5H. If you somehow end up in 2H's range, you can beat it out with 6H, but only if you do it very early. At that range, I prefer to jump or block.

On the offensive:

Once you get Slayer blocking or knocked down, you can definitely go into offense mode, but with a few differences from normal. With Slayer's invincible dashes, you have to be careful even when you're rushing down. Any gap can lead to you missing and being punished, so be ready to FRC that 2H or Rensen and block if need be. In particular, Slayer can dash through many setups into 6H (I'd almost say don't use it, but it still is a fairly good overhead.), most rashousen setups, and Rensen. You want to avoid being predictable, and if there are any gaps in your rush, make sure that you're safe, as doing a big risky move like 6H in a large gap can mean whiffing through a dash, dandy step, or BBU.

Watches is a Lunatic, volume 6: HARDSLASH ALL DAY

I really, REALLY love 5H in this match. It's just one of those weird things, but I've found that Slayer has a tough time dealing with it from certain ranges. It's a much better zoning tool than it is against most characters, being good for match start, anti-airdash, and even mid-range zoning. Without a run, that huge hitbox and occasionally-useful upper-body invuln makes it a tough wall move for Slayer to get past once he's about match-start or further from you. Don't spam it, of course, but keep it in mind.

Pros:

-Lots of high-active-frame lows mean that BBU is very dangerous to throw out.

-When Slayer has no meter, he has a hard time getting in, due to not having a run or a long airdash.

-2H pullback is a beastly meaty, as the only real reversal option against it is super, and it gives Axl a lot of frame advantage on block.

-When Slayer is forced to move first, Axl can safely react to most things at mid-to-far range.

-Nothing particularly difficult to block and lack of gatlings make strings a lot less difficult for Axl to break out of.

Cons:

-Poking game is very dangerous, even at max range.

-j.H makes AA a huge challenge

-Double-hit DHD combos are easy, due to Axl's wide falling hitbox.

-2H is far too good as a random clutch button, as it beats out most low moves Axl will try to throw out, including 2K, 5H, 3P, 2P, 2H, f.S, etc.

-lol BDC through rensen.

My opinion:

5-5. This match is very dicey for both parties. Slayer may have a slight advantage, but I'm not willing to call it 5.5. This match is a lot of work, since most of it is fought from a basically neutral situation.

Added note:

Since this match involves a lot of guess-work, this guide is meant only to provide a safe, baseline strategy, since obviously players of both characters will vary greatly in how they tackle neutral mixup situations.

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Might as well put this in: Slayer is fucking risky to AA with chains, as his j.H will beat all of them out if timed/spaced properly. I like TK FB Bomber as an AA against him more and more.

Umm yeah thx....

while I'm here, DW, I have an important match against a slayer player:psyduck:

Any advice you give would be awesome or can you pt. me the right direction?

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Umm yeah thx....

while I'm here, DW, I have an important match against a slayer player:psyduck:

Any advice you give would be awesome or can you pt. me the right direction?

Damn. I had some matches with a slayer at the end of a tournament very recently, but the vids aren't up yet as far as I know. Give me a sec to see if I can get them put up, but if not, I'll describe it as best I can.

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Damn. I had some matches with a slayer at the end of a tournament very recently, but the vids aren't up yet as far as I know. Give me a sec to see if I can get them put up, but if not, I'll describe it as best I can.

Ok cool thx *waits* (Mostly for sake of knowing when you responded)

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Ok cool thx *waits* (Mostly for sake of knowing when you responded)

Well shit. Um... I guess I can't get those vids just yet, so...

A few tips:

1. Slayer outprioritizes you basically everywhere. He can beat a lot of lows with 2H, and he is one of few characters that has an answer to most of Axl's AA game, since his j.H will beat a lot. You have to play this smart, and throw out things that are safe (Mostly don't throw anything out unless you're sure it'll connect), because a misplaced chain is Dandy/BBU/BDC/DoT bait.

2. Dandy step and Slayer's forward dash make rensen a pretty unsafe thing to do, but you can often catch Slayer with the 2 followup if he tries to get in on you. On that note, if he tries to forward dash in, you can often get a sweep or a 2H to hit him.

3. 2H is your best friend in this matchup. It makes dandy very unsafe, makes a great meaty (Try to hit with the pullback only), is very hard if not impossible to dash through, and above all, takes advantage of the fact that most of slayer's best moves are only upper-body invulnerable, including BBU.

Anything else specifically you want to know?

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Well shit. Um... I guess I can't get those vids just yet, so...

A few tips:

1. Slayer outprioritizes you basically everywhere. He can beat a lot of lows with 2H, and he is one of few characters that has an answer to most of Axl's AA game, since his j.H will beat a lot. You have to play this smart, and throw out things that are safe (Mostly don't throw anything out unless you're sure it'll connect), because a misplaced chain is Dandy/BBU/BDC/DoT bait.

2. Dandy step and Slayer's forward dash make rensen a pretty unsafe thing to do, but you can often catch Slayer with the 2 followup if he tries to get in on you. On that note, if he tries to forward dash in, you can often get a sweep or a 2H to hit him.

3. 2H is your best friend in this matchup. It makes dandy very unsafe, makes a great meaty (Try to hit with the pullback only), is very hard if not impossible to dash through, and above all, takes advantage of the fact that most of slayer's best moves are only upper-body invulnerable, including BBU.

Anything else specifically you want to know?

Ok yeah, so low hit his dandy steps? Since his has upper body invincibility, should I hit low in mixups? Also, is it possible or even safe to air throw him, because some slayers jump in for mixups, whats a good anti-air? I never landed a throw on slayer by the time blocked his whole string we're on the ground. Also what can i 6p counter?

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Ok yeah, so low hit his dandy steps? Since his has upper body invincibility, should I hit low in mixups?

Well, of course, mixups should still go high-low, however, I would say that from far away, lows will stuff most of his options, just watch out for his 2H.

Also, is it possible or even safe to air throw him, because some slayers jump in for mixups,

Airthrowing slayer should be no different from anyone else, really, just IB something or jump up and throw him.

whats a good anti-air?

Either the normal stuff, but before he can get j.H active, or TK FB Bomber, which beats out j.H.

I never landed a throw on slayer by the time blocked his whole string we're on the ground.

Well, as far as airthrows go, that's true of a lot of characters. Tickthrows can be good against slayer on the ground though.

Also what can i 6p counter?

6P? I don't like 6P as AA v. Slayer, since the upper body "invulnerability" is so small. If you mean 623P, don't do it as AA, and usually only do it on reaction to slow things like a dandy-->Pilebunker. It can sometimes make a good reversal, but don't go for it too often, as slayer has plenty of low oki options.

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6P? I don't like 6P as AA v. Slayer, since the upper body "invulnerability" is so small. If you mean 623P, don't do it as AA, and usually only do it on reaction to slow things like a dandy-->Pilebunker. It can sometimes make a good reversal, but don't go for it too often, as slayer has plenty of low oki options.

No, I don't mean as an anti-air, just can my 6p beat out anything? and I can 623P his kicks from the air, but I won't unless I predict it, bc of whiff bait.

Yeah so like, I can't sleep, used to going to bed an hr later. As you can tell, I am new, so I don't have much matchup experience so I have a few more questions:

1. If I don't see BBU coming, what can i do on reaction?FD best? IB? etc?

2. Whats a good tick throw setup against a slayer?

3. Can't u block his 2H, isn't that the cloud of death, not sure....I dont play slayer (what it looks like might help)

4. Is there any DAA traps you know of?

5. What's a good Oki option, if any?

6 Whats the best connecting followup to a Knockdown b/c of slayers funky get up time?

7. I know this isnt a great matchup, but whats my main advantages or weapons specifically personal, like concerning mental game?

8. How do you hit only with the 6HS pulback? EdiT: OOps 2HS?

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No, I don't mean as an anti-air, just can my 6p beat out anything? and I can 623P his kicks from the air, but I won't unless I predict it, bc of whiff bait.

Yeah so like, I can't sleep, used to going to bed an hr later. As you can tell, I am new, so I don't have much matchup experience so I have a few more questions:

Lulz, what a coincidence. I couldn't get to sleep until like, 6.

1. If I don't see BBU coming, what can i do on reaction?FD best? IB? etc?

IB it, or just regular block. You have years and years to punish.

2. Whats a good tick throw setup against a slayer?

Same as against anyone. IAD j.P works, Rensen FRC works, TK bomber works sometimes, and 2K isn't bad either.

3. Can't u block his 2H, isn't that the cloud of death, not sure....I dont play slayer (what it looks like might help)

Yeah, it's blockable, and yeah it's the cloud of death. Why I say to watch out for it is because it has some lower body invulnerability, and sucks to get hit by, so it will beat out a lot of your low pokes.

4. Is there any DAA traps you know of?

Do you mean times to use your DAA, or things to do after baiting his? The latter I know a lot of, but you have to be able to bait/predict the DAA, which depends on the player you're playing. Some players (like me) don't even really use DAA.

5. What's a good Oki option, if any?

Again, meaty 2H is a great one against slayer, TK bomber's not a bad overhead (Pretty safe compared to 6H,) maybe a safejumped air normal (meaning you'll hit the ground if he does something to get through it, making him miss and you able to block. Don't go for meaty 6H, because he can just backdash through it on reaction.

6 Whats the best connecting followup to a Knockdown b/c of slayers funky get up time?

Nothing abnormal, you just have to practice anti-slayer timings of regular Axl stuff, just like any other character.

7. I know this isnt a great matchup, but whats my main advantages or weapons specifically personal, like concerning mental game?

This matchup isn't bad, I'd call it at worst 4.5 just for the same reasons Slayer's top tier, but really I have to say even. As far as advantages, you still have a layer of range that Slayer can't cover without DoT. Like I said before, low moves with a lot of active frames like sweep or 2H really fuck up slayer as well.

8. How do you hit only with the 6HS pulback? EdiT: OOps 2HS?

By doing it as a meaty on oki. Just get the knockdown, throw it out so that it misses because he's down, but late enough that the second hit will connect. Since 2H has no gap between the first set of active frames and the second, if you mess up, you'll just perfect-meaty him with the first hit, which will still stuff anything he can try to do except wings super.

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how useful is 3p, I usually catch a slayer in dandy with this an it gives a free otg combo? would you recommend using it?

Yeah, 3P is a pretty universally good move to use. The only problem is slayer's relatively short airdash, which makes it easier for him to punish it if he jumps it. But it's a great tool for beating Mappa, BBU, and Dandy steps.

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Axl cant do shit vs 2HS, it's like a kill button. 2D,2p,3p,5k,6hs,2hs all die, 5s is all you can do I believe:arg: :f::SL:

Or you know... jump, or even *gasp* block! Are you sure it beats 6H in every circumstance, because I could have sworn that wasn't true.

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Well I know I can jump it, counter it...blahblahblah. Thats not the point, I'm jus saying that if we are mid screen and trying to set the pace Slayer can just mash 2HS with little or no fear. UUsually jumping is a bad idea, it can catch you standing, or if you just jumping in expectation your prolly gonna get antiaired by him.

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Notes vs Axl from a Slayer player: I watch for a few things vs Axl, 5P -> If you whiff this, I get a free Mappa, I can CH it from far away in the air with j.H 2P and that funny green low thingy -> BDC IAD H makes your day sad Any low poke -> 2H 2H into the overhead (IB) -> CH 2S IAD H combo

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Notes vs Axl from a Slayer player:

I watch for a few things vs Axl,

5P -> If you whiff this, I get a free Mappa, I can CH it from far away in the air with j.H

2P and that funny green low thingy -> BDC IAD H makes your day sad

Any low poke -> 2H

2H into the overhead (IB) -> CH 2S IAD H combo

Agreed with all of this except that Rensen hits low (it doesn't).

But yeah, You've got to be careful throwing shit out in this match. I'll write this up soon.

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Really though, Slayer should not be throwing out BBU to stuff Axl moves. Axl has too many ways to deal with it. Slayer also has ways to deal with everything Axl throws out without using tension (besides FD in the air) Though it's good to know. I get to fight an Axl pretty often, so if you need help with this guide, just ask.

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My advice to Axl: don't think you're being clever by throwing out 6hs for no reason. Slayer can just 5p->air shenanigans. If you're doing it because you think he is going to do a low, that is another thing altogether.

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Really though, Slayer should not be throwing out BBU to stuff Axl moves. Axl has too many ways to deal with it. Slayer also has ways to deal with everything Axl throws out without using tension (besides FD in the air)

Though it's good to know.

I get to fight an Axl pretty often, so if you need help with this guide, just ask.

I will, though I get to fight at least two slayers on a semi-regular basis, so I've got it covered (Although the question remains, how good is your Axl and my Slayers?)

I definitely would like it if you checked out what I write and tell me if I'm wrong on anything or missed anything.

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Nice writeup, it's pretty spot on. I think the matchup is in Slayer's favor. Maybe 5.5-4.5. Cool thing is, my sister actually lives in portland over the summer and I'm thinking about making a trip out there sometime soon. It'd be great to play vs. Axl mod.

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Nice writeup, it's pretty spot on.

I think the matchup is in Slayer's favor. Maybe 5.5-4.5.

Cool thing is, my sister actually lives in portland over the summer and I'm thinking about making a trip out there sometime soon. It'd be great to play vs. Axl mod.

It'd be great to play you too! I have two Slayers to play against up here, but maybe you know something I don't. I stand by even for now though.

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