[CS2] Tsubaki vs Lambda

[Fallacy]

Yeah I realize 22a is a good option I just keep pressing 5b out of habit =\

[Kiba]

General advice, since I'm not allowed to talk about Lambda anymore:

Airk come now please don't be like that. I mean the whole point of posting here is for discussion right? Besides, I enjoy reading your posts. You're better than that

/offtopic

[Airk]

I'm taking a breather!

Really though, the Lambda match only seems to get hard if:

A) Lambda spends a lot of time jumping around (this is a theme for Tsubaki matches)

or

B) You're up against the rare Lambda that is actually comfortable going on the offense in a sortof rushdown way. (The best Japanese Lambda player I've seen, who always uses that dreadful colorscheme, is one of these, and the matches are very different because he basically doesn't try to zone except to throw off his opponent's groove. This is why he's deadly.)

[Kiba]

Ha!

Just watch what Lambda does after a 3C or 6C

After any of them, if she goes for 236D, you can use 236X (has to be done quick) which gets you a CH. 236D CH - 5CC - 623C - J.214A (Whiff) into stuff...

If she does 214D, you can super jump into JC into stuff. If she does the one that takes longer to charge, well it has to be a reaction thing. 236X works but I mean you wouldnt really know which one she does unless the player is predictable or you're psychic :3

If she follows up with 236X, it can be DP'd, especially 236A/236C.

Sometimes she may even followup with a DD, so watch for her meter and IB to gain dat meter...

[Errol]

This is probably the most annoying/hard matchup I play, and there's tons of Lambdas in my region. I lose to lambdas to some pretty crappy lambdas because I don't have an answer for the simple but effective patterns.. Does anyone have a general gameplan for getting in? Even when you're close, a typical plan of 5b'ing your way in can fail because of 2b and/or 3c countering it so hard.

Green bursts are insanely annoying with that buzzsaw too.

I need to see if I can find some japanese matches.

[Errol]

(newest to oldest, stopped at page 14 of video thread)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RqQ_T1bMA0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJJ8pI7mzRs&feature=feedu#t=13m47

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13i09FiRcdw#t=11m40

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4x5eQgT-HI#t=17m13

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4x5eQgT-HI#t=36m40

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LepbzC9VDR0#t=9m51

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_sM9FnJoNw#t=7m19

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qI1T2i0IXhI#t=46m36

[BatousaiJ]

The best advice for this match up I can think to give is rather generic but makes a ton of sense.

Watch your opponent and their tendency for goto zoning in certain situations and then get in on them taking advantage of the hole in their zone.

Many Lambchops players have a tendency of trying to zone out Tsubaki like every other character which means using a lot of swords angled to catch you when you're air dashing towards them not knowing how quickly 236C/D will ruin their day.

If that's the case, go wild with 236C/D and get in on them for free all the time but there are those that either know from the start about the match up well enough to bait and try to get you with 3C of 5D off the 236C/D then you can start IAD'ing in as the 5D/3C whiffs under you. It's really a game of reads and once you get in on them, don't worry about charges or anything, just stick to them and don't let them go unless they pay a toll of a burst or 50 meter in the form of DD or CA.

It's actually quite as simple as that but we all know it's not quite as simple as it sounds. This isn't a match up you can shut off your brain and go on auto-cruise-control mode and think you're going to beat good lambchops. You should be thinking ahead on their patterns at all times and get in there.

Don't forget to use CA yourself if they get you in the corner and setup their blades/buzzsaw rotation. They'll be close enough for you to CA if you do it at the right times and that knock away will give you time to escape their trap and get right in their face as they tech.

214x works in this match up to a degree but I recommend that you not risk it unless you're damn sure you've got them. Oh and lastly, ambiguous double jumping is your best friend in this match up. You can often frustrate them by jumping over their primer breaking blades over and over making them start to set up their more elaborate traps and then just use that opportunity to get in on them or sometimes even make them come after you which is more or less in your favor.

[Errol]

Thanks.

Do you ever try building charge in neutral, before going in?

I have a feeling that getting the dp whiff combo really down will help a lot, I have mostly been playing with little charge. OTOH, I don't think you can get a dp whiff->2cc->236betc off a 236c hit?

Also strongly considering going for a lot of resets. for instance, ending with 236a, or restarting pressure with 6b instead of ending with 22c.

re: 214x.

feels like 214b has a tendency to get hit out of spike chaser

214c is ultra slow, think if you can get this you can get any number of other options..

214d is good but that uses charge, and hey, it still isn't that fast.

need to get a counter hit or else you've gained essentially nothing.

Yeah, basically I use 214x very little in this matchup...

I need to get my timing on dash super jumping over spike chaser down perfectly too.

[Fallacy]

you can indeed dp whiff off 236c and I do it quite often against lambda. Building charge in neutral is okay but I normally don't because there is a chance to get in at the beginning of the round if they do something risky. If the round begins and you end up at the far side of the screen then there is no reason not to charge, I just wouldn't back off for the sole purpose of charging.

[Errol]

What do you use off 236C?

236C->5a->5bb->5cc->623c->2cc->236b->214b->22c?

[Fallacy]

What do you use off 236C?

236C->5a->5bb->5cc->623c->j.214a(whiff)->2cc->236b->214b->22c?

Yeah, that exactly.

[Airk]

What do you use off 236C?

236C->5a->5bb->5cc->623c->2cc->236b->214b->22c?

If you get a counter hit or hit a crouching opponent you can omit the 5A as well, which will probably net you better damage.

[Recca]

Hello everyone!

I know i'm rushing into questions already, next days I will present myself and I will upload avatars and whatever is needed, but I am searching for advice from the community, even though I've been looking in this section for over a year.

I have problems with Lambda. I usually play against 3 different lambdas at 3 different levels (from challenge-spamming level to pro level), but I feel the problem is the same: It takes me horrors to get a hit. Usually it's due to flying swords, punishing any try to approach. Is there some advice to get past through the swords in good shape and be able to approach her? Any strategy to get her beaten down?

Thank you very much.

[Shruikon]

Iirc, the swords-from-ground (no idea on Lambchops move names, sorry lol) doesn't have foot attribute so you can 214x right through that. I believe you can also beat out the start up for it with 236C even from fullscreen, but not entirely sure.

Yeah, my Lambda exp isn't too great either tbh >_>

[Airk]

Hello everyone!

I know i'm rushing into questions already, next days I will present myself and I will upload avatars and whatever is needed, but I am searching for advice from the community, even though I've been looking in this section for over a year.

I have problems with Lambda. I usually play against 3 different lambdas at 3 different levels (from challenge-spamming level to pro level), but I feel the problem is the same: It takes me horrors to get a hit. Usually it's due to flying swords, punishing any try to approach. Is there some advice to get past through the swords in good shape and be able to approach her? Any strategy to get her beaten down?

Thank you very much.

The basic gist of the lambda matchup is that they threaten a lot of space, but as soon as they push a button, they stop threatening most of it. Your goal is to move through the space they no longer threaten.

As Shrui points out, you can skip through Spike Chaser with 214X (B or D probably) but this is only useful if you're at least sortof near your opponent. Doing it fullscreen is probably bad.

Otherwise, a lot of patient forward jumping forwards while holding back (No need to barrier except just as you leave the ground, to avoid Act Parser: Cavalier - all swords and other specials can be airblocked without it.) will condition them to try to anticipate you with a 6D or 2D, and the instant they whiff one of those, you can 236C/D and be in their face. Similarly, if you can learn to recognize the startup frames of Spike Chaser or Sickle Storm, these can be punished at anything less than fullscreen with a 236C/D. Eventually, Lambda is probably going to resort to using 5D or jumping back and using j.2D to keep you out. This will beat aggressive ground rushes with 236C/D, but gives you more or less free jump ins (If they use 5D, you can often even airdash over it and hit them if they space wrong) or at least force them to give up ground. Patience is key here.

That said, I have no suggestions if you find yourself facing a Lambda player who goes in aggressively, beyond the usual advice - anti-air well, and watch your spacing. All Act Parser moves can be beaten with 236 if you can react fast enough, otherwise, instant block and start your own pressure with a shortdash 5B. (Or if your opponent is in the habit of trying to jump after one of these is blocked, try punishing with 22A.)

[Fallacy]

Airk covered most of the lambda matchup there. Fighting different lambdas is kinda hard imo because most have different weaknesses. If they have really fast 5d's jumping is a better option. If they like to go for anything else then 236X is your friend. If you miss the chance to punish a spike chaser don't block it because you'll lose a primer, super jumping and charging is what I usually go for but watch out for 6D.

Regarding act parsers way 22A is a good option not only against jumps but also 3C which some lambdas might use to beat out alot of tsubaki's normals, namely 5B. In this matchup I definitely think lambda is meant to be aggressive and use moves like sickle storm to keep pressure on, if they play like this you'll want to have meter for dead angles.

Most importantly, once you get in don't let her go without taking alot of damage or giving up a burst.

[Kiba]

I believe you can also beat out the start up for it with 236C even from fullscreen, but not entirely sure.

Assuming it's on reaction, 236C will beat Lambda's 214D~C, but it will trade with 214D.

Use the opponent's patterns to determine how you will get in.

If they use 5D, you can air dash to get in.

If they use 4D/6D, you can use the 236X series or run to get in. Of course, this all comes down to conditioning.

Unless you are familiar with the timing, using 214X to get around spike chaser is risky and results in Lambda getting a free CH combo and you being sent back to square one.

Do not get greedy with charging in this matchup, but you can use 5D taps/2D to bait 6D from fullscreen so you can rush in.

[Errol]

gettign through spikes with 214x is really tight. 214D works well, but the others are pretty difficult.

[BatousaiJ]

Getting CH by spike chaser can and will lead to massive damage(it's not that hard to pick up).

I don't recommend 214D through it unless you know the timing on how to do it like the back of your hand.

When you do though, you can even 214D > 22D for a nice way to get through spike chaser and get a hit at mid-screen even if they were too far for 214D to hit.

[Airk]

It's actually easiest to dodge spike chaser with 214C, because it has the most invulnerability frames by a large margin, the problem is that it takes a lot longer to get to them, so you need to start it up earlier. Again though, unless you're close enough to land a hit - either with the 214 itself, or with BattousaiJ's 214 > 22D trick - it's actually disadvantageous to try this, because they'll probably recover and then punish your whiff harshly. The only time this is really useful is when you get a Lambda who likes to use 214D as part of pressure at relatively close range (usually after a 236D or a knockdown). You can give them a nasty surprise with this if you're quick enough, but mostly you want to superjump over Spike Chaser if you can't punish it.

[CrescentSaber]

This may sound stupid but I did not know that you could use 214x to avoid spike chaser. I'm gonna have to try that.