[CS2] Ragna vs Noel

[Leonil_Requiem]

... This match-up sucks. :[

[LuminAbyss]

A well timed 6A beats her 2D, 4D, and 5D. 5B will beat her 5D and 6D easily. Inferno Divider is also still good if she decides to do drive blockstrings.

Other than that, I'm pretty lost on this match up as well. :c

[Agent P]

Indeed this is not a fun match for me in any way, at least not with my current knowledge and skill lol, what really gives me trouble are those invincible frames that don’t have a reason to be there anymore.

What I usually try against the Noels that like a lot the D starters is this: Ragna’s 2B will beat her 4D, 5D and 6D no matter her lack of upper impact cells so I try to pressure with this and take advantage of the 2B > 5B gatling for some decent damage. If I feel brave enough I may try 6C instead of 2B which also will hit low and grant me at least a 3k combo, but of course 6C is really slow so is a risky move.

If the Noel has some common sense then it will stop using this smash and try her normals more often, or maybe try 2D or jD, this last two Ragna can beat for sure with 6A for another good combo, jD may need some timing or block it first depending on spacing.

Still a risky strategy I know, after all one bad move and I’ll eat some good damage, especially because 2B leaves Ragna open for a crouched combo. Any suggestions are more than welcome.

[advancedNoob]

One of rags best tools against noel is 5D. It completely shuts down her wake up bullshit. Here's the plan, get her cornered and use 5D to teach her not to mash, then mix overheads for damage. On ground hit just end 5d with hf to restart the pressure game, if you catch her in air(her 2d wake up) then it's easy 4k damage that once again ends with hf. If they block, cancel 5d into DS, if after DS u r close to her, don't use normals, use another 5d, if u r far away mash deadspike since her drve cant reach you.

[LuminAbyss]

The 2B starter for pressure sounds good as long as it hits (regardless of whether it's on block or not), because if it's blocked, it's a -3 safe, and you can just also go into something jump cancel-able for safety or a tick throw attempt, and if it hits, 2B > 5B allows for a nice combo.

This may also not sound like a legit strategy, but sometimes the best way to beat out Noel is by simply getting a health lead and laming her out, staying away and spacing her well so that she's forced to try something stupid that you can punish for even more hits.

[KayEff]

2B's not gonna work so well on 4D.

[Agent P]

Hey Kay, why you say 2B is not good against 4D? because of spacing maybe? I agree that its short reach can be a problem but is currently the best move I have found against 4D besides a well timed 5B or 6A. Do you have something in mind to deal against 4D?

[KayEff]

It's not reliable. For an option that you'd want to use against Noel's DP, you'd want something that will definitely work no matter how many times you screw it up.

You won't be able to tell she used 4D until she throws the move out itself, by which time you'd have already thrown out 2B. 4D's not the only option though; she could have chosen 2D, which goes over 2B. For an option against Noel's DP, you'd want to use something that works on every DP option she has so that she's forced to block. 5D is optimal in this case because of how it works on every option given you're close enough. 5 active frames makes 5D more likely to hit than with 2 on 2B, so that's a plus.

[The Katz]

My input from fighting the Noel Mod.

Your range is obviously better, just watch out for that annoying 5B she has. If she tosses it out before you get 5B or 5C out when spacing on the ground, you'll get hurt. You will get hurt a lot.

If she's in the air for whatever reason watch out for j.4D. That bitch is fast. Ironically C inferno's hitbox goes behind you near the base of the first hit, so if she tries doing j.B/j.C/whatever into it, just inferno. Can't do shit off of it without meter anyway, so just take the distance it gives you and the knock-down.

For when you have her in the corner or whatever: If you dead spike for okizime, her only option is to 4D. As KayEff was saying, 2B fails here. Just use 5B. 8 frames of startup for 5B -3 frames from the advantage Dead Spike gives you from hitting during the first active frame equals 5. I've yet to see a Noel try to 5A after Dead Spike, but I wouldn't recommend it considering what else could be done.

If she tries to 4D in that situation, again, just use 5B. You won't get hit and if you're lucky you might hit her in the jaw. All Noel can do in that position is hit buttons and pray, so just Dead Spike again if there is some distance between you. If she does that gun spin (d.6C), don't Hell's Fang. I don't know what I was thinking trying to get greedy with CH Hell's Fang combos.

Summary: Don't try to be fancy or you'll get hurt. Bad. Blood Kain is your friend when she's hitting drive and you're blocking (when you have the meter). I've seen a lot of people burst when they get hit by her 6B. Don't, for the love of Blood Kain, burst there. Save it for when you get hit by 5D or 2D. Trust me. /Ahem/ Try to keep your distance and let her know you have range. This seemed to work out for me more than attempting to steam-roll the Noel players I've fought up until now.

[The Katz]

... This match-up sucks. :[

Shame on you.

You know what you did.

[The Katz]

One of rags best tools against noel is 5D. It completely shuts down her wake up bullshit. Here's the plan, get her cornered and use 5D to teach her not to mash, then mix overheads for damage. On ground hit just end 5d with hf to restart the pressure game, if you catch her in air(her 2d wake up) then it's easy 4k damage that once again ends with hf. If they block, cancel 5d into DS, if after DS u r close to her, don't use normals, use another 5d, if u r far away mash deadspike since her drve cant reach you.

Despite the fact that I am a 5D fanatic, I do not fully agree with this. Especially the 5D > Dead Spike on block part.

It will, in fact, shut her down if you time 5D on her wake-up to catch any of her drives (assuming you do this correctly; not saying it is hard, just saying for the cases where the Ragna player isn't that good at doing such). You get a hit when she's on the ground and it's a counter? Dash cancel into a 5A > 5B > whatever combo. It does indefinitely more damage than just doing Hell's Fang. Got a hit when she's in the air somehow? DON'T END WITH HELL'S FANG. 22C that whore.

Now, the part I don't like the most... 5D on block.

Dead Spike! ...Nah.

She can't jump out or mash, but she can 2D. This is an issue.

If she IB's the second hit of 5D, she can do whatever she likes if you Dead Spike; jump and counter, 5B > 3C > 22(b)C > whatever, j.4D, IAD j.C > land > stuff, etc.

In my opinion, the best option after a blocked 5D isn't to do anything right away. Wait and see how the Noel handles the situation, the punish if it's in your power to. Just don't Dead Spike right away.

Edit: About doing Dead Spike and still somehow being close (I'd assume you did it after 1 hit, since the general non-IB/barrier-ed distance it pushes you is relatively far) doing another 5D would be suicidal. +3 on block doesn't cover your 5D's startup NEARLY enough to avoid getting hit by normal, let alone a drive attack.

[Tong]

If you dont some bullshit/risky stuff, you will never hit Noel.

Dont be 100% safe, or you wont get a chance to condition her to do something stupid.

Hurts so much on her when she whiffes something.

[The Katz]

If you dont some bullshit/risky stuff, you will never hit Noel.

Dont be 100% safe, or you wont get a chance to condition her to do something stupid.

Hurts so much on her when she whiffes something.

You don't need to be 100% safe, but be as safe as you can so you don't end up eating 4-5k for making a mistake of trying to get lucky.

I wouldn't call that bullshit. I'd call that suicidal.

If you're fighting mid-level randoms, then whatever. Just giving my input on what's the best idea in the scenario when fighting against a mildly-competent-and-up player.

[NakataYuji]

My input from fighting the Noel Mod.

Your range is obviously better, just watch out for that annoying 5B she has. If she tosses it out before you get 5B or 5C out when spacing on the ground, you'll get hurt. You will get hurt a lot.

If she's in the air for whatever reason watch out for j.4D. That bitch is fast. Ironically C inferno's hitbox goes behind you near the base of the first hit, so if she tries doing j.B/j.C/whatever into it, just inferno. Can't do shit off of it without meter anyway, so just take the distance it gives you and the knock-down.

For when you have her in the corner or whatever: If you dead spike for okizime, her only option is to 4D. As KayEff was saying, 2B fails here. Just use 5B. 8 frames of startup for 5B -3 frames from the advantage Dead Spike gives you from hitting during the first active frame equals 5. I've yet to see a Noel try to 5A after Dead Spike, but I wouldn't recommend it considering what else could be done.

If she tries to 4D in that situation, again, just use 5B. You won't get hit and if you're lucky you might hit her in the jaw. All Noel can do in that position is hit buttons and pray, so just Dead Spike again if there is some distance between you. If she does that gun spin (d.6C), don't Hell's Fang. I don't know what I was thinking trying to get greedy with CH Hell's Fang combos.

Summary: Don't try to be fancy or you'll get hurt. Bad. Blood Kain is your friend when she's hitting drive and you're blocking (when you have the meter). I've seen a lot of people burst when they get hit by her 6B. Don't, for the love of Blood Kain, burst there. Save it for when you get hit by 5D or 2D. Trust me. /Ahem/ Try to keep your distance and let her know you have range. This seemed to work out for me more than attempting to steam-roll the Noel players I've fought up until now.

The bolded part here holds so much truth. As a noel player, I smile when that happens.

[The Katz]

I guess that'd tie into "Learn what a good starter is, and burst correctly" part of the basics. :x

[A.X.I.S.]

You guys complain to much about this match up.

block drives and ID punish if she continues pressure, IB her drive enders if she is dumb enough to use them and punish if she can't RC.

Don't mash when she is staggering, they are evil little frame traps.

IB her 2C and get out of there.

Her air to air game is strong keep your distance from her in air combat, you will lose in that.

Get a health lead and be incredibly lame, if you are winning do not take risks as she can D through them.

Confirm her IB's and do not be obvious with deadspike as she can probably drive through it.

once you get her down do not be fancy. (That will get you hit by drives.)

Oh and don't get hit by 5D or 2D as she can kill you on CH.

There I am done.

I am probably wrong or all this has been said, but I told the guy it already had been discussed!

[Rokunaya]

I think editing the OP to show which of Ragna's normals/usefulspecials [214D] beat which noel D would help both myself and many other ragnas out there

....Because i honestly don't know what beats what outside of 6A beating 2D..

[Yggjrasil]

Its the only way to win this matchup. Don't do fancy shit. Just play safe and lame her out with your better normals.

[Rokunaya]

Still, knowing what beats what increased both my knowledge of my options and theirs, so I'd like to know them.

[Fistmaster049]

I agree, this is a horrible match up for the Ragna

it just isn't fun to fight Noels in this format or is it just me?

[advancedNoob]

I played a REALLY mashy Noel the other day, here are some matches from that set:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMWSdR7vaZY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGR-czTem8Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfN2aEPVEho

some of you might extract some ideas on what to do and what not to do against mashing Noels.