[CS2] Platinum vs. Tager

[Kujikawa]

Ohhhh, damn... Lets get this shiz hyping ^^

Platinum vs Tager = 6.0

Give a hug (or just a thanks) to Achtzehn and everyone else who has done their part in helping you guys with this awesome match-up!

Punishes:

Not much to say here, if he whiffs a 2c, Busters or whiffs a 6a (especially if he delayed it)and pretty much anything in his arsenal you can punish with anything you want. This is Tager we're talking about, there isn't much he can do that you can't punish. If you IB his A Sledge you can tag him with 5a no matter what.

Anti-airing:

Your main anti-airs; 2c and 6a do the job pretty well, just watch for if he does j2c so you don't get caught trying to AA too early.

Zoning:

This is where Platinum really shits all over Tager. Normal missiles will cancel out Spark Bolt (If you fire all three you only lose one), so once you put them out he has to either; take them like a man or just waste his precious Spark Bolt to get rid of them. Bombs can be a great zoning tool, if used properly and effectively. Also be aware of his Sledge, since it cuts through bombs and could lead to you eatting a counter hit. Cat Hammer beats Sledge clean, but make sure your careful of Spark Bolts. Use normals, such as; 5b to keep him blocking from a safe distance, and 2b since it has decent range and is faster than anything Tager has at that range.

Strategy:

You can pretty much play this however you want, just be smart in looking out for Busters, this is the only character who can't just mash out of your pressure, but only if you pressure correctly. So you get free reign in this matchup. Don't give Tager time to do anything, always be on the offensive and pressuring him, whether it be from fullscreen, midscreen, or right next to him. Platinum has all the tools to do this. Be careful using command throw as if he reacts to it his Busters will win everytime.

If you knockdown Tager and strongly believe he will wake-up with 360 or 720, it is good to J.2C on his wake-up. If you guessed correctly then you get a free punish. If you didn't, it is still difficult for Tager to get out of J.2.

When poking at Tager's face, refrain from gatling into 5b as it's slow enough to get beat by Butter Churners (360 mashing)

His 2c is terrible and he has to super yomi that to catch you. Feel free to dance over his head with swallow moon. I think he could only stop that stuff via IB > 5a.

Item Strategy:

Missisles: Safe way to get in on Tager really easily, not even Spark Bolt can stop you.

Bombs: Useful for baiting Sledge and setup oki.

Hammer: This weapon is stupid against tager, you aren't going to guard crush him too often, so you'll mostly be using this for glide throw and damage. Using the super variant is a great idea since its really easy to force Tager to get hit by the unblockable slide head effect. Remember he only has one jump so he can't get away from you setting it up.

Frying Pan: Instant overheads are great, just use it as mixup and go wild.

Cat Hammer: A good way to troll Tager and play a spacing game, just be careful for Spark Bolt.

Bat: Pretty obvious, its a DP use it as such, just don't get baited. Same with super variant.

Character Specific Details:

Most of you know that jumping + magnetized vs Tager = terrible idea, right? Well what if I told you this, Swallow Moon is only affected on a horizontal axis by Tager's magnetism. So if you jump Swallow Moon above or below Atomic Collider range when magnetized, all poor Tager does is pull you right to him without putting you in any danger. Be careful doing this low to the ground, as a smart Tager will whiff AC to pull you in then meaty something. But that's why you can just barrier cancel it at any time and make poor tager cry.

Make sure you make use of your instant overheads, etc. Experiment with Tager in training mode. Some good strings are:

[5A > J.B > J.2C > 5A] x 2 > 5B > 5C > 236B

J.A > J.B > J.A > J.B > J.A > DJ.A > DJ.B > DJ.2C > 5A > 5B > 5C > 3C > 22C/Or bubble oki

You may add Swallow Moon. It's great at punishing 360/720 mash.

Other Details:

Tager's 5d is +2 on block, don't try to punish it. His 4d is even on block, and his 2d is -1. Tagers will go for Busters after these in alot of cases. 6a, if delayed, is vulnerable to lows and throws (as well as continuous 5a mash), as is Voltic Charge. For Gadget Finger you can do super jump barrier IAD back and beat out anything he does, 2c will whiff, super jump barrier will put you in the air if he tries to buster, you'll block 5a in the air if he does that, Atomic Collider will pull you in a magnificently retarded circle around him and cross him up (Testing: the super jump barrier IAD back vs AC but it seems legit so far). As a general idea, once Tagers get you magnetized they will do their best to try and keep you magnetized. They'll become a bit more reckless and take more risks to try and keep you magnetized, this is when you can get alot of free damage punishing them for silly shit, like trying to pull you in with 6a/5d, you can punish 5d whiffs with dash in 2b from almost anywhere on the screen so long as you react relatively soon, same with 6a so long as he doesn't release it. Also 3c beats out Tagers 6a in range and of course since its a low it beats it out clean no matter what.

As an added note, good Tagers will spend 50 meter during Gadget Finger to do "Gadget Flinger", which is where you fly into the air and can't do anything until you touch the ground. Fortunately your DP isn't a directional input and can't be fucked up by crossups, however this is the only time Tager has true oki so you will more than likely have to always respect it. Do note that there is a small number of frames when you land where you are technically in hitstun but can do stuff, so if he tries to Buster you early you can tech it, so long as you didn't try to push a button and net yourself a throw counter. This is really the only thing you will actually have to worry about, think, and respect generally in this matchup.

5C 6C overhead/swallow moon shenanigans is fun stuff. I don't think there's anything tager can do to beat it. There doesn't seem to be a big enough gap even on IB for tager to do anything between 5C and 6C without getting fatal'd.

But be careful, make sure your not always pulling out TK/Swallow Moons. Don't use it often, Tager can FC2C you on reaction, leading too all sorts of nasty things like; soviet damage and tech traps.

Also, It might be best to have visual guides as well. Take a look in the Platinum Video Thread or browse jourdal's or pktazn1213's Youtube channels for Japanese Platinum (PA) versus Tager (TG) matches.

Lastly, you might want to spy on the vs. Platinum thread in the Tager fourms since it could give you a insight on what Tager's ultimate goal is against you (Although it's pretty straight forward).

[Axle_the_red]

Just played a Tager online...and I've accidentally done it before but...against Tager's j.2c I think it is (falling elbow), Platinum's 2C is AMAZING. Depending on timing (which I'm definitely still working out) you'll either smack Tager out of his j.2c or you'll be completely unharmed. Either way, you pretty much win out. :D

[Starlight777]

Cat/Lion Mace beats sledge clean, forces Tager to take a different approach than usual. Also Momo'd missiles beat spark bolt if he fires it when their out. Oddly enough Plat has enough tools to completely troll Tager from midscreen.

[Achtzehn]

I'm not finished gathering all the info but here's my opinion as a tager player and a platinum player as to how to play this matchup (now featuring really gay gimmicks to fuck tager over)

Punishes: not much to say here, if he whiffs a 2c, busters, whiffs a 6a (especially if he delayed it), almost anything in his arsenal really you can punish it with almost anything you want. This is tager we're talking about, there isn't much he can do that you can't punish. If you IB his A sledge you can tag him with 5a no matter what.

Anti-Airing: 2c and 6a do the job pretty well, just watch for if he does j2c so you don't get caught trying to AA too early.

Zoning: this is where platinum really shits all over tager. Normal missiles will cancel out spark bolt (if you fire all three you only lose one missiles) so once you put them out he has to respect them or waste his spark bolt. Bombs are great if used properly, be careful of sledge. cat hammer was mentioned, beats sledge clean but be careful if he has spark bolt. use 5b to keep him blocking from a safe distance, 2b is a great tool since it has decent range and is faster than anything tager has with equal or better range.

Strategy: you can pretty much play this however you want, just be smart in looking out for busters, this is the only character who can't just mash out of your pressure if you do it smart, so you get free reign in this matchup. don't give tager time to do anything, always be on the offensive and pressuring him, whether it be from fullscreen, midscreen, or right next to him. Platinum has all the tools to do this. Be careful using command throw as if he reacts to it his busters will win everytime.

Item strategy: this is really fun, missiles are kinda explained, safe way to get in on tager really easily, not even spark bolt can stop you. Bombs are useful to bait sledge and setup oki if you've punished him for trying to sledge them too often (bait sledge using missiles too). now for the other items

Hammer: this weapon is stupid against tager, you aren't going to guard crush him too often so you'll mostly be using this for glide throw and damage in this matchup. Using the super variant is a great idea since its really easy to force tager to get hit by the unblockable slide head effect, he only has one jump so he can't get away from you setting it up.

Frying pan: instant overheads are great, just use it as mixup and go wild.

Cat Hammer: its a good way to troll tager and play a spacing game, just be careful for spark bolt.

Bat: pretty obvious, its a DP use it as such, just don't get baited. Same with super variant

Character specific details: if you read the post you saw that I said "now featuring really gay gimmicks to fuck over tager", well my favorite part finally. Most of you know that jumping + magnetized vs tager = terrible idea right? Well what if I told you this, swallow moon is only affected on a horizontal axis by tagers magnetism. So if you jump swallow moon above or below atomic collider range when magnetized, all poor tager does is pull you right to him without putting you in any danger. Be careful doing this low to the ground, as a smart tager will whiff AC to pull you in then meaty something. But that's why you can just barrier cancel it at any time and make poor tager cry.

Other details: his 5d is +2 on block don't try to punish it, his 4d is even on block, and his 2d is -1. tagers will go for busters after these in alot of cases. 6a if delayed is vulnerable to lows and throws (as well as continuous 5a mash), as is voltic charge. for gadget finger you can do super jump barrier IAD back and beat out anything he does, 2c will whiff, super jump barrier will put you in the air if he tries to buster, you'll block 5a in the air if he does that, atomic collider will pull you in a magnificently retarded circle around him and cross him up (still testing the super jump barrier IAD back vs AC but it seems legit so far). As a general idea, once tagers get you magnetized they will do their best to try and keep you magnetized. They'll become a bit more reckless and take more risks to try and keep you magnetized, this is when you can get alot of free damage punishing them for silly shit, like trying to pull you in with 6a/5d, you can punish 5d whiffs with dash in 2b from almost anywhere on the screen so long as you react relatively soon, same with 6a so long as he doesn't release it. Also 3c beats out tagers 6a in range and of course since its a low it beats it out clean no matter what. As an added note, good tagers will spend 50 meter during gadget finger to do gadget flinger, which is where you fly into the air and can't do anything until you touch the ground. Fortunately your DP isn't a directional input and can't be fucked up by crossups, however this is the only time tager has true oki so you will more than likely have to always respect it. Do note that there is a small number of frames when you land where you are technically in hitstun but can do stuff, so if he tries to buster you early you can tech it, so long as you didn't try to push a button and net yourself a throw counter. This is really the only thing you will actually have to worry about, think, and respect generally in this matchup.

Hope this helps, not that anyone should need that much help with this matchup anyway...

[Kujikawa]

Helped a lot bro, thanx.

[Axle_the_red]

6B beats out busters. :O

[Achtzehn]

6B beats out busters. :O

well... its only throw invuln (airborne state) really during its active frames, so you can be tagged with a buster out of startup (which is 20 frames since its overhead, I'd rather not give tager that window of opportunity).

[Fireryda]

5C 6C overhead/swallow moon shenanigans is fun stuff. I don't think there's anything tager can do to beat it.

There doesn't seem to be a big enough gap even on IB for tager to do anything between 5C and 6C without getting fatal'd. and he has the best AA's in the game so don't worry about being hit out of the sky. < confirm ?

When poking at tager's face, refrain from gatling into 5b as it's slow enough to get beat by butter churners (360 mashing)

[Kujikawa]

and he has the best AA's in the game so don't worry about being hit out of the sky.

Is it just me, or does that not make sence?

[snipingsnipe]

There are some instant overhead setups against tager that are really easy as seen here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Nn1Urcvmak#t=01m26s

[Fireryda]

Is it just me, or does that not make sence?

Was just being sarcastic :P

His 2c is terrible and he has to super yomi that to catch you. Feel free to dance over his head with swallow moon. I think he could only stop that stuff via IB > 5a.

[Kujikawa]

Was just being sarcastic :P

His 2c is terrible and he has to super yomi that to catch you. Feel free to dance over his head with swallow moon. I think he could only stop that stuff via IB > 5a.

Sarcasm on Dustloop :O

Ok then, added the stuff in.

There are some instant overhead setups against tager that are really easy as seen here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Nn1Urcvmak#t=01m26s

Thanx, updated post with both of those examples.

[A.X.I.S.]

Was just being sarcastic :P

His 2c is terrible and he has to super yomi that to catch you. Feel free to dance over his head with swallow moon. I think he could only stop that stuff via IB > 5a.

FYI 2C is not really yomi as its a "I hope this hits you" move.

Be careful using swallow moon, I had Tagers 2C it on reaction, hell I punish it on reaction.

[Kujikawa]

Be careful using swallow moon, I had Tagers 2C it on reaction, hell I punish it on reaction.

Bait it? Sallow Moon > Barrier > Punish?

[A.X.I.S.]

When I fought Tager and did he CH'd me out of the swallow moons recovery.

You are better off playing keep away.

[Kujikawa]

When I fought Tager and did he CH'd me out of the swallow moons recovery.

You are better off playing keep away.

Arh. Alrightty then, I'll make a note of that on the front page.

[ShadowFiend]

ok, his 5a, 2a and 2b are all SAFE. even his 5D is safe. i highly recommend if you are blocking all of these do NOT try to attack back, that's exactly what they want. if you do..then you'll get baited like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wr_yZL26j_I&feature=related#t=13m19s

[Yggjrasil]

Anybody know if it's possible to cross-under Tager? If so, how? I'm having problems with this.

[Tari]

anybody know if it's possible to cross-under Tager?

I've never succeeded outside of training mode, and I've only succeeded in training mode by doing 3C>22C>Rapid Cancel into crossunder.

./cough

It is technically possible, though, I'm just not sure how feasible it is without doing something dumb like rapid cancelling.

[Spud]

I've done it a few times in matches. You have to hit the 2A at the very highest part of the animation for his tech.