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HexaNoid

[CSE] Noel Vermillion Critique And Self-Improvement Thread

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The aim of this thread is for all Noel players of varying abilities to come together in order to help each other develop our skills. Whether you're just starting out or you feel you've become stuck and can no longer improve, this thread should be a place where we can all exchange tips and ideas in a constructive manner to aid our progress.

Ideally, gameplay videos would be helpful for members to truly see the kind of ways in which each other play the game, but if making videos is impossible then general questions about what to do with Noel can be asked here (just don't forget that we have a thread for beginner questions here for more specific questions related to Noel). Also, if players can upload a replay they want to show, I'll be happy to record and upload it myself on either XBL or PSN.

NOTE: For people who want their replays downloaded by me, can you please tell me what numbered rank you are on the Noel leaderboards or something? Otherwise it'll be next to impossible for me to find you without spending hours sorting through names...

Edited by HexaNoid

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Question, doesn't the person who manage the BBVlog Youtube account have a method where you can share your replays with him/her so that he/she can upload it for the world to see and have your play be critiqued? If yes and you don't have a way to record gameplay or don't feel like recording straight off of a camera, that could be an option for you guys.

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That's a point actually. If you can upload your replay to your D-Card then I'd be happy to upload the replay if people don't want to record straight off cameras. The only problem I see with that is that I think uploading replays is only possible after a Ranked Match. Either way, I'll include that in the first post.

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So um.. Yeah, I have a video I would like some suggestions on if that's not to much trouble.

Dogg201 vs Little Subby

Dogg201 vs II StaSiS II

Before you guys point out some obvious things, let me try to defend myself first o_0.

First off, let me say before these matches started I was shook. Shook as in, I went into the battles like, "I fought these people since CT and the result is always the same. I'm gonna lose." So clearly, I'm in the wrong state of mind. I know not to 3C randomly, I especially know not to do it without a rapid at hand... But um, old habits die hard. I run up a lot with 6C... Something I've always done since CT, just kind of never left me. Combos that involve the Haida loop to some extent I drop. Simply because I'm learning it, but never doing it in a match wont help me learn it faster. The combos I do land don't produce tons of damage either, or I drop them out of pressure.

There are points in the match when you may think "What is he doing, why isn't he doing that or why isn't he moving?" Well during the match.. I'm sitting there just like "What the freak am I doing, what am I gonna do and Why am I not moving." That is like... My definition of being shaken up o_0

So I got scraped pretty bad. I tend to think I have good block strings, but against Sub.. Couldn't keep him on the ground long enough to even attempt any type of mix up. A lot of times I hit my opponent, not expecting a hit so I don't go for the most viable combo. I guess from the video you see I'm always moving, not thinking to much... I have no patience. Learned to live with that :|So helping me keep an aggressive play style while remaining safe would be a big help. Thanks.

Edited by dogg201

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So um.. Yeah, I have a video I would like some suggestions on if that's not to much trouble.

Dogg201 vs Little Subby

Dogg201 vs II StaSiS II

I noticed that you have an extremely wild and raw style. You said you wanted to stay aggressive, but you can maintain a style that is both aggressive and very controlled at the same time.

You don't always have to run at your opponent for pressure or for aggro. You can just as easily be aggressive while slowly inching forward, taking away space from them. I think you've got your combos down in a way, but you don't have to start combos from point blank range. You should work one your spacing with Optic Barrel zoning so that your approach isn't stagnant. Also, go for different blockstrings. End them in various places. You don't always have to end them in 5C > 2C. You can just as easily end them with 5B, or 5A > 2A > 2B, or something that is different and is varied enough to make your opponent second guess if they want to attack.

I'd say try to limit the amount of naked 6Cs you do. I know it's been buffed a bit to almost CT status, but that wind-up for whiffing is generally not worth the risk. Her other normals will suffice more in stuffing your opponent's approach since 2A is now 6 frames instead of 8 frames for startup. It stuffs an incredible amount of things, and it's reach is pretty deceptive.

I also noticed that you auto-pilot the 5C > 3C gatling instead of hit-confirming it. This is very punishable, so try to get your hit-confirms down.

Another thing I noticed was you seem to panic when you get knockdown, so you mash a tech without fully understanding your position. I saw that you ate quite a few tech roll punishes because you tech rolled backwards against the wall. Tech rolls are very vulnerable and are prone to being punished, so be fully aware of what your opponent's options are. And on the topic of teching, the Tager was reading your aerial techs, and was landing reset after reset because you got too anxious on escaping. You can change the timing of your techs so you can avoid those setups. If anything, just neutral tech and block. Nothing wrong with that option.

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I'd say try to limit the amount of naked 6Cs you do. I know it's been buffed a bit to almost CT status, but that wind-up for whiffing is generally not worth the risk. Her other normals will suffice more in stuffing your opponent's approach since 2A is now 6 frames instead of 8 frames for startup. It stuffs an incredible amount of things, and it's reach is pretty deceptive.

I also noticed that you auto-pilot the 5C > 3C gatling instead of hit-confirming it. This is very punishable, so try to get your hit-confirms down.

Another thing I noticed was you seem to panic when you get knockdown, so you mash a tech without fully understanding your position. I saw that you ate quite a few tech roll punishes because you tech rolled backwards against the wall. Tech rolls are very vulnerable and are prone to being punished, so be fully aware of what your opponent's options are. And on the topic of teching, the Tager was reading your aerial techs, and was landing reset after reset because you got too anxious on escaping. You can change the timing of your techs so you can avoid those setups. If anything, just neutral tech and block. Nothing wrong with that option.

Thanks for the advice. I'll get to practicing on what you said, upload some more videos some time to see if I'm following correctly. In some Noel mirrors I've done I'm really starting to notice the start up difference in 2A since well... It keeps hitting me. :|I'll work on incorporating that and different block strings into my game. In the Tager match up. My head was totally gone in that match honestly. I know it's not a good idea to tech in the air, by then end of the first round I was like "There's no coming back." I'll TRY with the being aggressive slowly moving forward.. But it's incredibly hard for me to just take my time. Something I would have to really get used to doing.

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I've been playing Noel since CT and imo CS2 Noel got some of her offense back and a little bit of a bonus with the new gatlings. Coming from CS1 Noel it feels kind of funny to have more usable offensive options. 6A hitting crouchers again? Count me in! Other subtle changes include a raise in the attack levels of 5B and 5C, making them safer on block and easier to hitconfirm from.

Definitely learn to take your time with this character though because in terms of pure, mindless offense she is far from the best at it. Get used to taking advantage of her good movement and space well with her whatever-ish normals.

Edited by MiraclePizza

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I have a replay saved in my D-Card. What do I do next?

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I have a replay saved in my D-Card. What do I do next?

You do nothing. :3

I'll go right ahead and download that and post it here for you either tonight or tomorrow morning.

EDIT: Actually, you will have to do something. I can't find any replay data on your D-Card.

Edited by HexaNoid

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I'm looking for some advice to improve my gameplay.

Any feedback?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFyhV-O-5Dg (vs. Jin)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3luRhLQiQY0 (vs. Noel)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UloQ0gw7g-U (vs. Lambda-11)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChB4khnPnGo (vs. Hazama)

Posted this on Skype, I'll just repost it here for later reference.

Work on your hitconfirms and punishes. There were an aggravating number of times you gave up damage due to you not reacting to the opponent whiffing something or getting hit by an attack you didn't seem to expect to work. Just do your best to remember what situations are punishable and pay attention to it so you can react accordingly in general.

Meter Usage: You don't need to end a combo in super every time you have the meter to, and random Thor is a waste of meter (you're spending 50 meter to either get all of 3k or shove yourself in the corner). Save up your meter for RCs, CAs, and supers that'll kill the other guy.

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Should go without saying, but... constructive criticism, I'm by no means trying to insult you, but trying to help you get better in your best interest.

I think your approach needs work. Cancelling run into Barrier is a fantastic way to start off. I think you should be using more of Noel's gatlings for easier and safer hitconfirms, or better blockstrings. Thor should be used less IMO, unless it's punishing something very very obvious with bad recovery. And even then, there'd be better meterless punishes that do more damage and gain some Heat as well. There were a lot of 2D's thrown around. You respected Lambda's zoning much more than you should have.

That's just my 2 cents. Take with a grain of salt.

Edited by Overheat

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I'm gonna get some more videos of my matches soon, but for the time being I have this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llaskm1D_6Q&feature=feedf#t=0m40s

Play wasn't that great on my part (to say the least), but this is generally my play-style. Critique and feedback would be much appreciated.

You are A-okay Hex! Just be more careful when going in and get those RC into 6A 6C combos off standing opponents.

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I'm gonna get some more videos of my matches soon, but for the time being I have this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llaskm1D_6Q&feature=feedf#t=0m40s

Play wasn't that great on my part (to say the least), but this is generally my play-style. Critique and feedback would be much appreciated.

Pretty Good. I got say, your good.

Try not to do that j.B > j.4D method too much. Someone can grab you. (I saw Tsubaki Grab you from j.4D)

Someone can counter attack you.

Don't get me wrong, it's a good setup.

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Right, so I've gotta work on my approaches and RC combos and make sure I don't use j.B > j.4D too much. Thanks for the feedback guys. :)

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I'm gonna get some more videos of my matches soon, but for the time being I have this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llaskm1D_6Q&feature=feedf#t=0m40s

Play wasn't that great on my part (to say the least), but this is generally my play-style. Critique and feedback would be much appreciated.

You have certainly gotten better, but you still don't seem very comfortable with pressure and staggers yet, you hit the panic button a lot and ran into a bunch of 5Bs(which honestly no one can blame you for). Also remember to just save j.4D for rare moments, because it's really not hard to block or beat out, so you want to make your opponent less expecting of it, and I saw you do fenrir after 2/3 of your corner combos, just save Fenrir for when it will kill an opponent, or at the very least bring them down to a poke/chip damage worth of life.

All in all though I'm proud of you Hex, I was impressed at your improvement :3

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Someone I know uploaded vids from our last casual and I just happened to see this thread. I know I suck at these vids but tips on how what I could have done would be appreciated. TY

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I'm gonna get some more videos of my matches soon, but for the time being I have this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llaskm1D_6Q&feature=feedf#t=0m40s

Play wasn't that great on my part (to say the least), but this is generally my play-style. Critique and feedback would be much appreciated.

Hex, I don't think you do very many things wrong when you are playing. The only thing I saw that was causing you pain was the corner pressure coming at you. It is usually IMO better to just block on wake up and counter assault to get yourself out of trouble in the corner, or if you feel it will work you can always wake up distortion. The big problem is noel has no DPs to get ourselves out of corner pressure so we have limited options. I suppose a 2D on wake up is viable but you play the risk of being countered (in the case of the pressure you were being delivered at 5:20 you could have done this to avoid the damage, because you go over her 22D). Other than that Hex your execution was fine and your combos were top notch. It is just the little things you need to work on and your game will vastly improve, fundamentals are always key.

Edited by eLPointe

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Also hex, learn the ghettoness of staggered 5A/2A and 2A dash 2A throw. Staggered 2A/5A is frustrating to deal with and usually people will option select a throw escape. Use that to your advantage.

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@Hex

Less clean 3Cs, 6Bs, 236Cs (so much disadvan on miss), obvious jump cancels to j.B/j.4D (this is very easy to counter/AA), drive panic. Needs more blocking/backsteps and 5B, IMO. CA timing was okay.

Anyway, I think it's better to not rely so much on Noel's gimmicks this time around (i.e. 214As/j.4D) since you're only gonna be jeopardizing yourself when you mess up. She's way too good already when played basically like sticking to the normal game and capitalizing on those hits with RCs. Without meter those 1-1.5ks may not do much but they can stack and keep you ahead in terms of health than betting on them flashy stuff.

@Cad

Two words. Drive spam.

Too much 2D dude so what the hell? ^_^ Take some time to learn some other combos coming from Noel's normals. If something didn't work out so well in a match stop doing it and change your pace (e.g. in that Tager match, you kept 2D'ing and he just kept on hitting you out of it). Anyway, the second paragraph for Hex should pretty much apply to your play style too plus you also need to work on your hit confirming so like don't 214A someone who's crouching, okay?

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@Hex

Less clean 3Cs, 6Bs, 236Cs (so much disadvan on miss), obvious jump cancels to j.B/j.4D (this is very easy to counter/AA), drive panic. Needs more blocking/backsteps and 5B, IMO. CA timing was okay.

Anyway, I think it's better to not rely so much on Noel's gimmicks this time around (i.e. 214As/j.4D) since you're only gonna be jeopardizing yourself when you mess up. She's way too good already when played basically like sticking to the normal game and capitalizing on those hits with RCs. Without meter those 1-1.5ks may not do much but they can stack and keep you ahead in terms of health than betting on them flashy stuff.

@Cad

Two words. Drive spam.

Too much 2D dude so what the hell? ^_^ Take some time to learn some other combos coming from Noel's normals. If something didn't work out so well in a match stop doing it and change your pace (e.g. in that Tager match, you kept 2D'ing and he just kept on hitting you out of it). Anyway, the second paragraph for Hex should pretty much apply to your play style too plus you also need to work on your hit confirming so like don't 214A someone who's crouching, okay?

Even though I still use it more that I should, I'd like to note that Noel's backdash is so bad... so very very bad...

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With that aside, I have a video here from NakataYuji: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trd5sMHQzsU

Comment on Yuji's Gmeplay.

I beleive you know Muzzle Filter doesn't work on crouching opponents. If not, well, now you know. Do A Optic Barrel (236A) On Crouchers then continue comboing it with 6C then you Drive Ender.

I just notice 2D beats Nails? WTF???

EDIT: 2D Beats Nail j.214A

Not j.214B, j.214C and j.214D

If a Bang player does TK C or D Nails, 2D can beat it <------- Tested it.

Nails > 2D (If timed late) So watch out with that.

If someone learns how to blocks pretty damn good, don't do Overhead 6B and 3C.

Unless that player got 1 primer left since 3C can break on 1 guard primer but he can counter assault or burst. I recommend doing when someone has no burst left to use and less then 50 heat.

I do this lot and probably some of us too but.....

Don't use Fenrir to end your corner combo unless its going to finish off somebody.

Save heat for Counter Assaults or Rapid Cancels.

Same thing with Mid-Screen Combo Enders as well unless its for the kill.

I understand its netplay and all.

I'm just giving you feedback to improve your gameplay.

I hope I was in any good help. :)

Edited by GunslingerSonic

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